frankbm4 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 A friend of mine put a guitar for sell on her Facebook page and at first look, I saw the "split-diamond" pearl inlay on the headstock and was quick to ask her "how much?!". When she told me she wanted $1000 but wouldn't take less than $700, at first I just figured she didn't know what she had and I was about to walk away with an awesome guitar. However, when I asked her if it was a real USA made Gibson, her response was: "Yes, every single part was made by gibson, in the gibson factory right here in the USA form the pegs, body, everything. CNC machined body to Les Paul specs, its the real deal. It was put together over seas which is why the price is so sweet, but the serial number will comeback 100% authentic made in the USA Gibson. I tell you what, if you play it in and are not completely blown away by how it sounds, I will make it right. I will give you ever penny back. I can hold a note for 10 minutes on this guitar. Its out of this world."[sic] She sent me the serial number which is 02005560. I know this is not a Les Paul Custom serial number. So I had her send me photos of the headstock. Here's the shots of the front and rear of the headstock: I sent her back a shot of my Les Paul Studio and my SG Special and explained to her why the guitar is a fake. Aside from her admitting that it was assembled overseas (to Gibson specs, mind you), I pointed out the serial number error, the distance of the Gibson logo from the top of the front of the headstock, the height and irregular shaped top middle arches of the headstock being too high, the fact that the engraved "CUSTOM" is too big, and the nut covering the name plate, the bonding, and other issues. I explained that If this was made to "Gibson specs", this is not something that would appear on the guitar. I honestly thought I was helping her realize that she had been duped herself. However, she came back to me with this story: "In actuality they are all assembled overseas, that's a fact that many people have remained in the dark about. This was assembled with vos parts which means its vintage old stock, actual gibson parts made in america. Its a chambered mahogany body which you can't get in america anymore cause of epa standards and ran gibson out of the usa which is why they are assembled overseas. This is why I can sell you a $3000 for 700. It sounds fantastic. I wish you wouhld play it. Jpanaees business man bought all their inventory of parts back in the 90's and at the begining of obamas administration he had gibson factory raided by the epa cause they made their parts out of restricted woods so Gibson shipped all their bits overseas. There jis no doubt this is gibson. Gibson just exploits the 51% rule so as to not go under. Ever musician I know are buying these guitars cause there is nothing that compares to them. You can't mess up vos parts on CNC. You have got to just play it. You'll see why. You won't lose anything if you just play it once." [sic] Can someone shed some light on this rumor, where it came from, and why she believes this? I am not going to buy this guitar. I'd rather spend $700 on another brand new LP Studio than risk it on a fake custom. Thanks. -Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 This guitar is a counterfiet Guitar, which is not just a copy, but is manufactured to allow sellers to attempt to pass it off as a real Gibson. They have been all over Ebay and other sites like it, and sellers keep trying and actually do sell a lot of them. It has been a big problem lately, and even as they are identified as fakes and told to remove the listings, and diciplined and made not to lie about the products, they continue to show up like a flea infestation in the summer. The guitars themselves sell for about 200 bucks from sources in China, and maybe less if a person gets a connection. These particular are of extremely low quality. It looks like sellers are turning to facebook because they can get away with less oversight. I don't know how well you know this friend, but you should ask her where she got this info. It may shed some light. For one, I do not know anyone who would believe such a story, so it is not a rumor that is going around or one that people actually believe. It would be too east to refute for it to actually be believable if one wanted to check. As for the story itself, it is OBVIOUSLY made up, you can see that, right? I mean, MOST of what she has said here is based on things that never happened, and it is not a matter of getting facts mixed up or making a mistake. It is a total lie from the beginning. This story is a fabrication made to be told to convince someone to buy this guitar. And, it was made to get someone to BELIEVE this guitar is associated with Gibson, or IS a Gibson. And really, the story serves no other purpose. A couple red flags for you. If she HAD a number of musician friends, she would know her "story" is not true because they would have told her or questioned it, and she would have found out. And, she seems to have a lot of information for someone who would not know anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojjett Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 This is a fabricated story. You need only to visit the websites of the counterfeiters. They don't even make such claims. Plus the guitars would say Epiphone on the headstock, & wouldn't say "made in USA". To be legal, it would have to say where it was assembled at the very least. It just not logical. I think that someone who represents Gibson should make an official statement, perhaps they have already, clarifying the situation for the sake of awareness & for the sake of those who may be duped into believing that story & others like it. I say this because I could understand why somebody might believe this due to the common practice of outsourcing by so many companies. But if you think about this particular situation & use common sense, you'll see red flags from the get go. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbm4 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Just to clarify, I know it is fake and I am not purchasing it. I was just curious how a story like this would get some footing and then take off. -Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Just to clarify, I know it is fake and I am not purchasing it. I was just curious how a story like this would get some footing and then take off. -Frank Why do you say this story has footing or has taken off? Do you know anyone who believes it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbm4 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Why do you say this story has footing or has taken off? Do you know anyone who believes it? No. I don't know anyone else that believes this. I had never heard this before and thought maybe the fable had circulated before I was told which is why I came here to ask around. If nothing else, I'd like to return to her with more factual information besides "it's a fake and the story is a lie". Clearly someone had to tell HER this story. I was just wondering where something like this could come from and if it is based on any other type of factual information, for example, a plant actually getting shut down that had nothing to do with a Japanese business man or a Japanese business man actually making a deal that had nothing to do with a plant shutting down; anything to base a rumor like this off of. I'm definitely here to learn from you guys. -Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 No. I don't know anyone else that believes this. I had never heard this before and thought maybe the fable had circulated before I was told which is why I came here to ask around. If nothing else, I'd like to return to her with more factual information besides "it's a fake and the story is a lie". Clearly someone had to tell HER this story. I was just wondering where something like this could come from and if it is based on any other type of factual information, for example, a plant actually getting shut down that had nothing to do with a Japanese business man or a Japanese business man actually making a deal that had nothing to do with a plant shutting down; anything to base a rumor like this off of. I'm definitely here to learn from you guys. -Frank I might ask HER where she got the story. That will tell you a lot, as well as where SHE got the guitar. I think it is bad manners to make judgement about people you don't know and make suggestions to others based on little facts, but I am honest when I ask you how well you know this person. If you will forgive me, I am suggesting this person is lying to you. You SEEM like a good guy, and we like good guys here. One thing you might find here is there are lots of cool people, and one thing we like to do is help each other out, and ESPECIALLY from getting ripped off by fakes. There are also some on this site who make great efforts on a "crusade" to stop people from getting ripped. I hope you don't take it as being rude, but sometimes details that are meant to be helpful are used to help counterfeiters and con artist be more competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 If nothing else, I'd like to return to her with more factual information besides "it's a fake and the story is a lie". Whilst I understand why you'd rather reply with more substance than "It's just a Make-Believe Fairy-Tale" the only way to get your 'friend' to realise the situation Re: forgeries is for them to read a bit more and from better sources to boot. There's plenty of accurate info to be had. OTOH, I suspect your 'friend' knows full-well that the instrument is a forgery. For them to try to cheat you makes them seem far less than a 'friend'. They'd cetrainly have ceased to be considered my 'friend' if I was in your position. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbm4 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Whilst I understand why you'd rather reply with more substance than "It's just a Make-Believe Fairy-Tale" the only way to get your 'friend' to realise the situation Re: forgeries is for them to read a bit more and from better sources to boot. There's plenty of accurate info to be had. OTOH, I suspect your 'friend' knows full-well that the instrument is a forgery. For them to try to cheat you makes them seem far less than a 'friend'. They'd cetrainly have ceased to be considered my 'friend' if I was in your position. P. The more I thought about her reply, the more I believe tha latter part of your statement above. We are not close friends but know each other through the same circle of people and have hung out on occasion. I'd say we've been aquaintances for over ten years. As Stein mention, it's not good to pass judgment but I do know some negative things about this person. The way she seems so set on her sales pitch and the fact she mention to me that she "wished she could keep it", I believe she just needs some cash and is looking to unload this on some poor sucker. Why wouldn't you be able to keep a fake guitar? The story doesn't make sense, but I am going to ask her where she found this information and report back if you're I interested. Also, thanks, Stein. I promise I'm a good guy. I'm new here but not to music and Gibsons and there will be no trouble out of me. ;) I'm here to learn more than anything. -Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Frank, from what I can see you have done your homework and weren't ripped off by her. Thumbs up for that, most people buy first, ask questions later and end up with turds that can't be sold unless they ripp off someone else too. The story is as fake as the guitar and I wonder if with each guitar comes a pamphlet with that story and what to reply to someone that asks too many questions. I too have been told that story and have laughed loudly. Gibson hasn't officially said they make guitars overseas, until they do I think it's safe to assume they are still made in the US. Most people who don't know better believe such stories because to them it makes sense: epiphone=Gibson. So if epis are made in Asia then Gibson must build at least the cheaper models in there (insert rolleyes emoticon). The key to this is most people still think epiphone is equal to Gibson less the name and pricetag. Ask anyone, in fact take a look at eBay listings and you'll see lots of "epiphone/Gibson les Paul" for sale. That only contributes to the problem. I'll post a little more on it later. Great thread btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Btw I don't think I've seen you around before (iPhone version of the forum won't show when you joined) so welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Wunterslausche Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 How much do you care about this. I would ditch that friend. I would also consider reporting them to the police, I suppose it depends or your relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 . Welcome. Glad to read you didn't get taken by yet another fake LPC - - - - between the LP forum and the Lounge, we've seen a quite a few lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbm4 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Btw I don't think I've seen you around before (iPhone version of the forum won't show when you joined) so welcome to the forum. Hey, TG. You haven't seen me before because I just joined. When you were looking at my profile earlier, I had gone to bed and was on the site from my iPad which was why it probably wasn't showing the information. Thanks for the welcome! -Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbm4 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 How much do you care about this. I would ditch that friend. I would also consider reporting them to the police, I suppose it depends or your relationship. She's not a close enough friend to care either way and I'm in Dallas. The police probably wouldn't do anything about it and instead hassle me. I am going to find out where she heard that story, though. -F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namvet Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Absolutely a fake in my opinion. Truss rod cover doesn't look like the one on my Gibby Les Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 that headstock is just wrong, spotted it right away. I've made the decision lately that I will not point out the details of the actual flaws on the forums for these fakes anymore to keep from helping the counterfiters. When I see something I know is a fake I will chime in and give a vague explanation; but I think if someone is going to press for more info, rather than risk giving a counterfiter info to improve their bogus product, I will suggest showing pics of the guitar to Gibson as a way of getting official verification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitehall Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Yep thats one of the many cheesy fakes out there and the girl is a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 The story is Laughable, like the POS Guitar.... Id say the seller knows its fake... If I believed I had something that was worth 3K i'd be a fool to let it go for anything less... Congrats for not buying it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBlues Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I am really curious to know if the fingerboard on that piece of crap is ebony or rosewood... If it's not ebony, or not even a painted black "other mystery" wood, I mean it wouldn't even be a good fake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 First.. I do remember reading about Gibson getting there hands slapped a couple of years back because of some wood in their storehouse.. but the rest of that story is straight from the counterfeiters web sites. Also to everybody else.. Remember they said Facebook and Friend; we call "friend"; meaning the person we sit in the back yard drink beer and play music.. In Facebook world a "friend" is anyone that you click on and add to your listing Some people live and die facebook and have hundreds of "firends" they've never met This 'friend' could be just a Chinese sales site posting on Facebook. Hence we must be careful on the wording of 'friend' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbm4 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 First.. I do remember reading about Gibson getting there hands slapped a couple of years back because of some wood in their storehouse.. but the rest of that story is straight from the counterfeiters web sites. Also to everybody else.. Remember they said Facebook and Friend; we call "friend"; meaning the person we sit in the back yard drink beer and play music.. In Facebook world a "friend" is anyone that you click on and add to your listing Some people live and die facebook and have hundreds of "firends" they've never met This 'friend' could be just a Chinese sales site posting on Facebook. Hence we must be careful on the wording of 'friend' I understand your concern about the use of the word "friend", but this is actually someone who I used to hang out with periodically and know on a first and last name basis. I've known this person for nearly 12 years or longer. I can honestly say the person is more than just an acquaintance as we have hung out just the two of us on a few occasions. The guitar on Facebook and I approached her because I saw the headstock in the picture and noticed it appeared to be a LP Custom. Either way, I didn't buy the guitar. -F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kveen Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 came upon a gibson with the same number (02005560) in holland EU at marktplaats, looks to me that there are many guitars with that number, because this is called a new one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarJunkie Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 If nothing else, I'd like to return to her with more factual information besides "it's a fake and the story is a lie". But, it is fake and the story is a lie. Bottom line. Sometimes the most obvious answer is obvious for a good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbm4 Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 But, it is fake and the story is a lie. Bottom line. Sometimes the most obvious answer is obvious for a good reason. Yes. I know this. You know this. Perhaps she doesn't know this. My point was to go back with her with a more educated answer with an explanation of why it is fake and the reason the story is a lie. I asked the group to get an idea of where a story like this would grow legs; whether it was based on partial facts, a rumor, or just an urban legend. I had never heard it before and she seemed so convinced it was true. I asked her for a picture of the headstock and I knew right away it was fake once I saw it. I had already decided not to buy the guitar before I asked the members here. Just wanted to get some information from experts. -Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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