Bryan K Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'm interested in this guitar on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/130566159823?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 I have a strong feeling that this is a fake. The price seems suspicious and nobody has jumped on this yet. I've had my eye on these types for a while now and most seem to sell in the 300.00+ range. I did a little research into these, and the fake ones, and one thing I'm seeing is that the screw on the pick guard isn't in alignment to the upper volume and tone knobs. Shouldn't they be in line with each other with the line gong up through the cutaway area? ...and shouldn't the screw be more centered on the pick guard ...not exactly centered, but it seems too close to the edge of the pick guard. Also, shouldn't the tuning keys be metal? They look like some kind of imitation plastic/ivory. I know I could go ahead and buy it, have it checked out locally, and if it's a fake send it back for a SNAD refund, but I'd like to save the time and shipping if anyone can tell me anything beforehand. Btw ...I did make an offer of 200.00 + shipping. He counter offered with 210 + shipping. I told him before I accept his offer I would like to have close up pictures of the front & back of the head stock and of any serial numbers on it. He replied that he would, but he didn't remember seeing any numbers anywhere. I believe ALL of the Epiphone and Gibsons have a serial number. So that makes me leary too. I also read some where about 3 screws on the truss rod cover? Is this true too? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Hi. I am not an expert at spoting fakes, but there are some members who are. I'm sure one of them will help you out shortly. One thing I can tell you is that the vintage style tuners on that guitar are not uncommon at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 HI Bryan and welcome to the forums, there's a great bunch of guys around here, I hope you like the place. I'm not much good at ID stuff, but two things stood out, they are really poor quality pics and it would be very difficult for anyone to do a proper ID based on them. The seller only has one (1) feedback point, DANGER, DANGER,DANGER Will Robinson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Welcome Tuners all pointing straight Truss Rod, correct for Korea The only thing im unsure of is the knobs aren't pointing straight with the pickguard screw BUT this was a common thing with Korean models... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan K Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 HI Bryan and welcome to the forums, there's a great bunch of guys around here, I hope you like the place. I'm not much good at ID stuff, but two things stood out, they are really poor quality pics and it would be very difficult for anyone to do a proper ID based on them. The seller only has one (1) feedback point, DANGER, DANGER,DANGER Will Robinson. Correct you are on the 1 feedback mark. But somebody has to start somewhere on eBay. I generally deal with newbies because others won't and I get great prices. I haven't been burned yet ...knock on wood. But there's always that first time. Then again if I use paypal they will stand behind me. Thank you for the welcome! Does anyone know the value of this one in particular? Am I paying too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Even from those pics it don't look right to me. Whether the screw and knobs lined up prefect or not, the screw looks to close to the edge of the picguard. The neck volume still looks too high IMO. Even for a 2001 Korean. But never mind all that. I still think you could do better. Also, Will someone explain what I missed. Is this the second time since Aug.3 that he is selling this same guitar? http://www.ebay.com/itm/130556747323 http://www.ebay.com/itm/130566159823?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I hate to say it but if he's selling with "STOCK" images 2 guitars with 1 set of pics I would RUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Did it sell at the first listing ? According to the ad it sold for $200. Even the feed back trail looks suspicious? I'm not saying that all might not be as it should. I will say it looks like more trouble than I would care to bother with. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 it looks consistent with an early to mis 90's korean epi LP. IMHO it is highly unlikely to be fake, but the sellers lack of ebay experience would discourage me slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrmatt Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 As far as the sn# some of the early Korean built models the sn# was in ink on a tag that either fell off or was taken off by alot of people. I am no expert but looking at the piacs the trc, tulip tuners and headstock shape are cosistent with an early 90's MIK Epi LP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan K Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 As far as the sn# some of the early Korean built models the sn# was in ink on a tag that either fell off or was taken off by alot of people. I am no expert but looking at the piacs the trc, tulip tuners and headstock shape are cosistent with an early 90's MIK Epi LP. He gave me a serial number of F9324234. ...and thanks, I do plan on asking about why he using the same set of photos for different ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicmaker99 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 He gave me a serial number of F9324234. ...and thanks, I do plan on asking about why he using the same set of photos for different ads. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where did he get the serial number from? Hmmmm.... Guitar Info Serial number unrecognized Fine Guitars The Fine Corporation was established in 1994, Inchon, Korea. They have production capability of 50,000 Electric Guitars and basses per year. Not only do they produce guitars for several well known brands by OEM but also have their own line 'Fine'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan K Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 There is something wrong with this serial.... F would be Fine plant, Korea 93 would be the year 24 can't be the month...and only 3 digits for production # ??? or is it 2 for Feb ? Okay I did some more research on this model. Turns out the epiphone elitist and elite have these same set of numbers. Most all other Gibsons and Epiphones have 8 to 9 I found this on Gibson.com: Epiphone Most regular production models since ca. 1993. Many '80s and early '90s serial numbers may follow a similar scheme, but may not include a factory ID code. FYYMMRRRR F= Factory code (this can be 2 letters as well) YY= year of manufacture (this can also be just 1 digit for '90s models) MM= month of manufacture R= ranking number (may be more or less digits, not necessarily indicative of total units produced) Example - S02021234 was issued in Feb. 2002. Another code used on some current Epiphone models FYYMRRRR F= Factory code YY=Year of manufacture M= This will be a letter code corresponding to the month (A=January, B=February, etc...) RRRR= ranking number Example - R03D0263 was issued in April 2003. Epiphone Elite/Elitist models FYSSSS F= Factory Code (this code will be an "F" or "T") Y= Year of manufacture (2 = 2002, 3 = 2003, etc.) SSSS= Sequential Serial Number Example - T41234 is a 2004 Elitist model. Now I'm thinking he has totally mislabel the item. Isn't a T of F mean it was made in Japan? ...and if the Elite/Elitist formula above is right, wouldn't that make this guitar a 2009 and not a 2001? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcham Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'd ask for a picture of the serial number because there's something really wrong with that one, especially since he lists the guitar as a 2001. As for it being listed twice, if you look at the first ad, it mentions that it has been relisted. Maybe the buyer didn't pay up and he decided to try again. If that's the case, he should have indicated that in his relisting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcham Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 That guitar was not made in Japan. For one thing, Japanese Epiphones only have two screws in the TRC, just like Gibsons, and the one in the ad has three. There is no doubt that it is a Korean Epi. The only questions are which factory and when was it made. Hey Pete!!! Do you have to beat me to the punch here too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 IAs for it being listed twice, if you look at the first ad, it mentions that it has been relisted. Maybe the buyer didn't pay up and he decided to try again. If that's the case, he should have indicated that in his relisting. Or worse, it's been sold, then returned as a fake and refunded, then selling again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrmatt Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Can he give you a pic of the back of the headstock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan K Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Can he give you a pic of the back of the headstock? That's what I asked for, but he only sent the number w/ no pic. I did write an email to the seller asking why it was listed again when it was already previously sold. I also wrote an email to the last buyer asking what went on there. When I hear a reply, form either, I will post it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan K Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 That's what I asked for, but he only sent the number w/ no pic. I did write an email to the seller asking why it was listed again when it was already previously sold. I also wrote an email to the last buyer asking what went on there. When I hear a reply, form either, I will post it This is getting too weird, so I probably won't buy this one. I'm watching at least 7 more on eBay. But I will try to follow through, with the research, on this one because now it has me wondering. That is, ...if I get answers back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan K Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Okay I got a reply from the previous buyer. They write: I BOUGHT BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS A DIFFERENT MODEL SO I RETURNED IT. IT IS A KOREAN MADE EPIPHONE WHICH IN MY OPINION ARE THE BEST EPIS EVER MADE. I KNEW WHAT IT WAS I DID NOT THINK IT WAS A GIBSON AND I DONT THINK HES TRYING TO IMPLY THAT BUT IT DOES SAY GIBSON ON THE TRUSS ROD COVER. ITS A GREAT GUITAR FOR THE PRICE I JUST MADE A MISTAKE I WAS LOOKING FOR A SPECIFIC MODEL AND HE WAS COOL ENOUGH TO REFUND MY MONEY. THE ONLY PROBLEM WAS A SCRATCHY VOLUME POT BUT THATS REALLY NOTHING ...and those aren't my caps. Now forget it! It wasn't the model he was looking for???? He had plenty of chances to ask questions, and supposedly the seller is listing the model so why would he have ordered it. I never asked or implied that it was a full Gibson. A scratchy volume pot? I've heard that to be a problem with some knock offs ...how true is that? I think the last buyer is in on it, maybe a friend helping a friend get started or something??? Anyway, just too many flags. I'm gonna pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrmatt Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Good move! Too many good LP's out there to worry with these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 There were some F series Epi Les Pauls made in the 90s in Korea, by the "Fine Guitar Co". I owned a goldtop one briefly. The one I had was definitely not mahogany of any kind, (I sanded it down). It was a lighter coloured wood, both body and neck...too soft for maple, so maybe basswood or cheap alder. Build quality was not as good as other Korean plants like Samick, Usung. I wouldn't buy another "Fine" guitar. I've owned 5 or 6 Samick "S" series now, and all have been great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan K Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Well, the seller is no longer communicating with me. He was usually pretty good in getting back to me within a few hours. Apparently I struck a nerve with all my questions. Too freakin' bad ...If you're going to sell on eBay you got to be ready to answer some questions. I just wanted to update and give a shout out to... ...STAY AWAY FROM THIS ONE ON eBAY!!! I want to thank GIbson.com, for having this forum, and EVERYONE who replied for all your help!!! I have learned ALOT from you guys and from reading the forum. I'll check back in when I get ready to purchase the next one ...kind of taking my time. I already have a Epi LP 100, and an Ibanez LP Lawsuit from the mid 70's (my 1st guitar ...traded my drum set for it, plus he gave me 300.00 back in '78). LP styles are all I have ever played. My next one will be a Epi LP Standard. Hopefully one day I can afford a real Gibson LP ..wishful thinkin'. Thank Again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Pete R. and Whitmore Willy, a question for your guys as you mentioned this, or anyone else who wants to chip in: I thought that the only legitimate position for the volume knob was below the level of the tailpiece. Recently I've seen a black Custom (might have been a Black Beauty) which was legit which had the knob level with the tailpiece. Now, although I'm not an LP expert I do try to keep up with the fakes threads, and I've never seen anything like this example where the knob is way above the tailpiece level. Any thoughts fellas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcham Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 The BB you saw was probably not made in China. The knob position only applies to MiC LPs. Korean made seem to be a lot more 'flexible' with the knob position. It's also possible that the knobs on some fakes are in the proper place but the stoptail is actually set too far back. There was a member on MLP who discovered this on his Black Beauty when he tried to fit a Bigsby to the guitar and discovered he had about a half inch of space between the bracket and the lower bout of his LP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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