upsidedown club Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 so I was going to put the new tusc xl on my pawn shop refurb and get that one strung up for playing,but stupidly I decided to take the good nut off my les paul and make it better. have a book and some specs so I thought it would really give that smooth set up. Shheeech ... its hacks me off... I had feeler guaging and measuring and filing and messing till I had the near pro /gibson specs at the nut and bridge checked truss rod adjustment and what did I get?? buzzing strings especially on the high strings and an currently unplayable mess,, now I have to start over with a new nut .. those dan erliwine specs are just too damn low for my guitar yeah frustration 2 gits no practicing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Awe man. I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out. Sometimes you have to forget about measuring and numbers and work by feel sight and intuition. When I did mine, I used the original nut as a template then made tiny adjustment constantly tuning up and checking then re adjusting and so on. I'm on my cell at work just now but when I get home I might be more helpful. .. Oh yeh, I did mine in bone because they are so darn cheap, I bought several blanks just in case I goofed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sometimes you have to forget about measuring and numbers and work by feel sight and intuition. +1 I never use rulers or gauges, but being an old fitter/machinist, I have a very good eye for gaps and distances. Sorry it didn't work out for you UC, thing is not to be discouraged by it, just keep at it and the results will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Welcome to the club! People (not just on this forum) have embarssed me telling me I make some nice playing nuts. Guess what? I started out the same as you....Epic Fails! Great way to learn. (by our mistakes) And for the cost of a nut or two? A Cheep Lesson! Once I messed up my first one, I used regular paper along with construction paper to shim my failure untill it worked. That then became the templet for the next one. If you really want to use it for a while you can buffer up the slots with a mix of baking soda and super glue. Just be warned. It's temporary and a crappy fix. Take your time...You'll get it. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Once I messed up my first one, I used regular paper along with construction paper to shim my failure untill it worked. I wouldn't recommend using paper for a shim, better off using wood or metal for better string vibration transfer, last shim I used I made out of a feeler gauge of the correct thickness to bring the nut up to height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyGibson Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I haven't replaced my nuts, they seem fine I've seen pre-slotted Tusq's and all that's necessary is to sand the bottom until the height is where it needs to be. There are You Tube video's that show sliding the nut on a piece of sand paper that lays flat on a table. But it sounds like your doing it from a blank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNick Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sorry to hear you messed up your nut. Not to worry, Your next one will turn out perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I wouldn't recommend using paper for a shim, better off using wood or metal for better string vibration transfer, last shim I used I made out of a feeler gauge of the correct thickness to bring the nut up to height. I explained that poorly. The paper shims were only used as a temporary quick fix so I could judge the correct slot height. The nut was replaced with a new one that worked by the next day. It was my way of learning. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 You'll have better odds than playing the lottery, but like they say.. ya gotta play, to win. I remember you saying you're a lefty, so if you string your guitars left handed, it's handy to have a right handed nut in good condition to place face-to-face (mirror image) with a blank LH nut.. then nick the blank for the string slots to get the string spacing correct/properly spaced. The same will work versey visa, for making a RH nut from a blank using a good LH nut as a guide. Anyway, using some paper (guitar string wrapper, baking soda, wood sanding dust etc) superglued to the bottom of a nut that's cut too low will at least allow you to practice playing by temporarily providing some additional height and clearance above the frets. Then when you get some new material, make a couple more nuts, and as your skills improve you'll know what not to do.. in the meantime, it's a good idea to order extra parts.. unless you're absolutely sure you'll never buy another guitar. Uh-huh, I didn't think so. I agree with the cautions regarding tying to match low action measurements.. a lot depends upon the angle and installed height of the fretboard, which can vary by a significant amount. I believe there is a sweet spot or zone, where a particular guitar will be adjusted as well as it can be. This could be altered on a guitar with a bolt-on neck by carefully removing some wood or adding a thin shim to modify the angle of the fretboard.. but not much can be done with a set-neck model without reworking the fretboard surface to change the angle (major undertaking, better to have it done by a qualified luthier). I don't remember where the images were, but I saw some high-speed images played in slow motion, showing the wild whipping movement of a low E string being picked.. it's amazing how much movement can be seen with high speed photography. Bill so I was going to put the new tusc xl on my pawn shop refurb and get that one strung up for playing,but stupidly I decided to take the good nut off my les paul and make it better. have a book and some specs so I thought it would really give that smooth set up. Shheeech ... its hacks me off... I had feeler guaging and measuring and filing and messing till I had the near pro /gibson specs at the nut and bridge checked truss rod adjustment and what did I get?? buzzing strings especially on the high strings and an currently unplayable mess,, now I have to start over with a new nut .. those dan erliwine specs are just too damn low for my guitar yeah frustration 2 gits no practicing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upsidedown club Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 thanks people.. I think temp shim and learning the right height for this git is what I will do, then put in a new nut at that setting. This was a pre-slotted nut and I just cleaned the slot and sanded it lightly . It was good for string spacing and played well but it seemed higher than the bone one and for sure was higher than the book specs. so I filed down to book spec .. I am not 1000 percent sure but I felt like that tusc nut was giving better sustain. but this one is so modded now I cant be sure, New sd pups and put on flat wound strings for the first time ever.. boy those strings sound and feel different, cant say if I like because I busted a string also setting the action HA..HA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Oh yeh, I did mine in bone because they are so darn cheap, I bought several blanks just in case I goofed up. I wondered about that. Bone can't be an expensive product - plenty of cattle in the world that end up as burgers/shoes or both... The local butcher will even give me shin-bones etc for my dog. Why, then, do cheaper brands insist on using plastic as a nut material? Is it because plastic is easier (and hence) cheaper to work with when mass-producing guitars on a production line? Or is it because a plastic nut to a guitar company costs, I dunno....$0.001 less per unit than a bone nut and hence when you multiply that saving across x hundreds of thousands of guitars a year that the factory churns out, it's a saving worth making? I never gave too much thought to nut material (other than a bit of a dislike for plastic) until I bought my Hagstrom - which has a graphite nut as stock. Definitely some advantages there in terms of tuning stability (with graphite) I've decided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I wouldn't recommend using paper for a shim, better off using wood or metal for better string vibration transfer, last shim I used I made out of a feeler gauge of the correct thickness to bring the nut up to height. That's what I call a precise fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upsidedown club Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 rastus .. that shim form the bottom idea aint bad but I just got one set of feeler gauges and it brand new:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNick Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I have used a thin guitar pick as a starting point then sanded it down to size. Super glued it to the bottom of the nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy01 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I've been doing repairs on other people's guitars for a while now, and every once in a while I still screw up a nut. It is easy to file too much off in the smaller slots. One pass of the file, a bit too hard and it's swearing time. I do not shim a nut that has been filed too low. The tempory fix I use is to fill the slot with baking soda, and then put a drop of super glue on it. Then re-file the slot. You have to mask everything off to do this, and I will only do it on my own guitars, not a customers'. If a customer is paying for a new nut, that is what he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 The short reply is that plastic is predictable and random shapes of bones aren't. One day's production of machine-made plastic parts can be 10s of thousands. Plastic injection molded parts often start out as manageable plastic pellets fed into a machine which generally produces identical parts. Bones have varying density and would probably need to be hand shaped from selected portions of certain particular bones.. not an issue with sacks of plastic pellets where one 50 lb. sack of pellets results in a predictable number of finished parts. And then folks would be debating the better bone nut material.. giraffe neck bone, or baby seal hip bone. I'd prefer to just consider either metal/brass (some grades of bronze and brass exhibit self-lubricating characteristics) or graphite Tusq XL products. When a plastic nut is dropped on a hard surface it will produce a dull sounding click-click noise as it bounces, but a graphite will have more of a ring, sorta like tinnk-tinnk noise, IME. Bill I wondered about that. Bone can't be an expensive product - plenty of cattle in the world that end up as burgers/shoes or both... The local butcher will even give me shin-bones etc for my dog. Why, then, do cheaper brands insist on using plastic as a nut material? Is it because plastic is easier (and hence) cheaper to work with when mass-producing guitars on a production line? Or is it because a plastic nut to a guitar company costs, I dunno....$0.001 less per unit than a bone nut and hence when you multiply that saving across x hundreds of thousands of guitars a year that the factory churns out, it's a saving worth making? I never gave too much thought to nut material (other than a bit of a dislike for plastic) until I bought my Hagstrom - which has a graphite nut as stock. Definitely some advantages there in terms of tuning stability (with graphite) I've decided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 With the right kind of cutting tool, almost anything can be shim material (although metalworking shop suppliers sell shim stock and feeler gage stock in various materials, sizes and shapes). Beverage can material is easily cut with scissors (just not mum's or wifey's favorite pair) and cigarette rolling papers have been used as precision shims for years, as certain ones are a consistent thickness. Beverage can material doesn't comply well with super glue, but may stick OK if scuffed with abrasive or scraped with a sharp edge just prior to gluing. Adding a soft material under a guitar nut will tend to reduce the transfer of string vibrations to the neck, but adding material of the same or greater hardness/density shouldn't present a serious sound problem.. and provides the owner with another opportunity to get to the correct size without needing to just discard the modified one (which may fit another guitar neck just fine without a shim). Bill rastus .. that shim form the bottom idea aint bad but I just got one set of feeler gauges and it brand new:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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