tfm0722 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 hey Everyone. I am new to Gibsons but fantasize about them regularly. I recently saw a vintage acoustic at a local store identified as a "1967 J-50" It had the adjustable saddle, natural top, and a really thick black, "teardrop" style pickguard. Upon googling images of 60's J-50s, I noticed most had the swirly, funky, fancy kinda pickguard, not the standard one you see on most other guitars. I was wondering...did Gibson use different pickguards for different years of the J50s and J45s? I have a feeling the "1967" dating may be inaccurate and am interested to know if you can use the style of pickguard to know the year. Thanks for any info! BTW, the pickguard is shaped like the one in the photo, but solid black and super duper thick. Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 The pickguard in the photo is not what I would think you would see on a '67 J-50. A 1967 should have what I guess could best be described as a thicker version of the large pickguard Gibson started using in 1955. Not sure about the J-50 but you will see them screwed down on some '67 and '68 Gibsons. I want to say that Gibson did start slapping black more teardrop shaped pickguards on their guitars towards the end of the 1960s - 1969 or so. The ADJ bridge was available as an option in 1956 and became standard in 1961. If the guitar you are looking at has square shoulders that with the ADJ bridge and thick black pickguard would date it at no earlier than 1969. Photos or more information like the serial number would be of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfm0722 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Awesome info! I will sneak back in the shop next weekend and photo the guitar and serial number, then get back to you! Thanks for the insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfm0722 Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Okay so I found photos of the exact guitar from the dealer's website. "1967 J-50" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Okay so I found photos of the exact guitar from the dealer's website. "1967 J-50" It's a square-shoulder with Martin-style pickguard, which places it at 1969 or later. To most people, these are not J-45/J-50's in any sense. They have more in common with the Dove, Hummingbird, and square SJ's than any J-45/J-50. This is almost certainly a double-X braced guitar. This was not the high point of Gibson design or construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfm0722 Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Wow that is disheartening. I did play it, and it sounded sweet which is most important. However, labeling it a 1967 J-50, the dealer wanted $1400 for it. I thought it was a good deal based on Ebay prices, but now I know it's not a 1967...(but it is indeed a J-50, correct?) Any stabs at the value of this one in fair condition? Luckily,I did not drop the $1400 on it! BTW, thanks again for all this info guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 It's a square-shoulder with Martin-style pickguard, which places it at 1969 or later. To most people, these are not J-45/J-50's in any sense. They have more in common with the Dove, Hummingbird, and square SJ's than any J-45/J-50. This is almost certainly a double-X braced guitar. This was not the high point of Gibson design or construction. I would agree here on this... The large headstock would take it to the late 60s to early 70s.. I do think it is a little over priced as well... keep in mind... you can pick up a Newer J45 for that dollar amount... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdd707 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 http://www.ebay.com/...=item4ab4a94b56 Difficult to talk about value on something like this but $1,400 is way too much. Check out the one on ebay above for more information. The square shoulder Norlin era Gibsons are often named "Deluxe" but there is very little deluxe about them. Don't let the Gibson logo lure you in. Not all Gibsons are equal. Heck, if you are willing to spent $1,400, look around and you'll find a nice 5 - 10 year old J45, already played in but not played out. If you are interested in a vintage Gibson, stick with those made before the mid sixties and be prepared to pay more. Pass on this one at that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 That eBay auction ain't run its course yet. Completed auctions show 1969 J-50s going for between $1100 and $1650. I think that $1400 is in the ballpark for a 1969 J 50 if you are buying from a store as you will generally pay more than you would in a private sale. The problem is ya don't really know if the guitar was even made in 1969. It could be later. I don't know who the dealer is but it is a bit strange that they were seemingly unable to accurately date the guitar. If nothing else the square shoulders are a dead giveaway it ain't a '67. With the serial number they could have figured out the year of manufacture in just a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschaafs Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I am the original owner of a 1969 J-50, square shoulders and originally an adjustable bridge. It was my only guitar for 20 years, but since I have found it something of an odd duck. Tiny neck at 1.5"', 25.5" scale, inllayed but raised gibson logo in pearl, still a baseball bat neck. I still love it, though I replaced the bridge and tuners. The beast sings, though not as loud as some... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Not sure I'd trust a dealer that far off on the date. The square shoulder J50s were more heavily built and a little more boxy sounding than the one's with slope shoulders. If you are interested in a 60s J50, I have one for sale (shameless plug) on the forum Trading Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfm0722 Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ya the whole shop is a little dingy, dusty, smokey...Which is why I love it. Weird how far off in date they were. I'm gonna go in with all this new info I got from you guys and probe the dealer a little more. I feel like now I know more about the guitar than he does. I am definitely going to get the serial number next time and post it up here... Rambler, nice avatar. Also nice Gibson for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Yeah, my favorite shop is a little hole in the wall place with guitars in every corner. The owner is a heck of player and probably sells more guitars after folks hearing him play them cuz they sound so good in his hands. But there really ain't much he don't know about the guitars he sells. Just a thought but if I liked the guitar and knowing the store is asking $1400 for what they are advertising is a '67 which I could prove is no earlier than a '69, I might make an offer of say $1100 - $1150. Again, though you need to know what year the sucker was made. The newer you get the more the price should drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfm0722 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hey guys sorry to bring up this old post, but I have an update. I went back in today and checked the serial number for what he's saying is still a '67 J-50. The number is 88?812 The ? looks like a 5 or 6. We couldn't tell because there was a little chip or something. So, that being said...any clues?? BTW, some other things I noticed that may help... -No "Made in USA" stamp -No sticker/markings of any kind in sound hole -Wooden saddle -What looks like a stock strap button on the heel of neck Thanks! Also, he said he'd take a $1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmonics101 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 LOL...i read the subject of your post and just can't stop myself from posting :) I usually don't date J50's. Before anything gets too serious with any J50 that I may be interested in, I first give 'em a try, THEN I buy them before even THINKING about dating them Harmonics101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfm0722 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Ya it plays awesome!! I'm not too concerned about the whole date thing, but I am going to use that info in deciding its value. The dealer is swearing its a '67 and some folks on the forum are saying it's later. Hopefully the serial number I posted will settle things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 No such luck. The serial number does place the guitar in 1967. But the square shoulders and "teardrop" black pickguard are features that did not appear until 1969. So ya got me. In the end though, $1000 is a good price on a '69 and a great price on a '67. So if you like the guitar then go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfm0722 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 My research keeps showing it a '67 also...but soooo many people have told me the square shoulders are not from '67. I am hella confused. Doesn't change the fact I really dig the guitar, but I am a little troubled that the identification of the year seems so hard. Hopefully it's not a counterfeit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I am far from an expert on 1960s square shoulder Gibsons but is it possible the guitar is not a J-50 but something like a 1967 Heritage? Anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I am far from an expert on 1960s square shoulder Gibsons but is it possible the guitar is not a J-50 but something like a 1967 Heritage? Anybody? That's an interesting point. Is the guitar ink-stamped "J-50" (or some variant thereof, such as "J-50 adj") on the back centerline cleat inside the soundhole? If I were looking at it, I would carefully inspect the inside with a mirror, particularly the top bracing, to understand what I was buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfm0722 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 There is no stamp inside the sound hole. If I'm not mistaken, the centerline cleat is the piece directly down if looking through the soundhole (where most stickers appear)??? If so, there is no stamp/marking/sticker there, or anywhere else inside the body. As a matter of fact, I did not notice any marking on the guitar identifying it as a J-50. I just took the dealers word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spot Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ya it plays awesome!! I'm not too concerned about the whole date thing, but I am going to use that info in deciding its value. The dealer is swearing its a '67 and some folks on the forum are saying it's later. Hopefully the serial number I posted will settle things! Just bloody well buy the guitar then!!!!! You've played it and you obviously like it! Who cares if it's a '67 or a '69???? This is not a collectors grade guitar, we are not talking about a Wartime museum piece here... You got it's market value,.....What more do you want? If you had any sense you'd buy Rambler's J-50. Twice the guitar for a little more $$. Excuse the rant but someone had to say something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Just bloody well buy the guitar then!!!!! You've played it and you obviously like it! Who cares if it's a '67 or a '69???? This is not a collectors grade guitar, we are not talking about a Wartime museum piece here... You got it's market value,.....What more do you want? If you had any sense you'd buy Rambler's J-50. Twice the guitar for a little more $$. Excuse the rant but someone had to say something... easy tiger :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spot Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 easy tiger :-) Grrrrrrrrrroooowl!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfm0722 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Ya ya I know I should just buy it. Well thanks for all the help guys! I learned a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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