Motherofpearl Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Hey guys I want to take the grover tuners off my wm45 and change them out with tulip tuners how hard Is it and does it require and modifications such as drilling ? I would appreaciate any info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 You'll just need the Kluson specs and compare. You may see added screwholes if you reinstall the Grovers. The post and bushing diameters have to be reconciled as well, but reaming out the peghead isn't for the novice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I changed the tuners on my J 200, to the grover tulips,took the old ones off, put the new ones on ( one hole already works ) then drilled and put second screw in its really easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Thanks guys! Where can I get the tuners eBay? I should do the same to my sj200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Ebay, Stewmac (maybe), or Kluson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Here's a place to start http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Gotoh_Tuners/Gotoh_Vintage_Keystone-style_Tuners.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=1496 stewmac.com is a fine supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Perfect thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby b Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Perfect thanks Just a heads up. Make sure you get the right ones. The Klusons in the Stewmac link provided above come with a bushing that is pressed into the headstock. Im pretty sure some wm45's had the other type. The other type would have a hex head top bushing that threads into the tuner body, same as on the J200 pics above. The hole size in the headstock are different for each version. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Just a heads up. Make sure you get the right ones. The Klusons in the Stewmac link provided above come with a bushing that is pressed into the headstock. Im pretty sure some wm45's had the other type. The other type would have a hex head top bushing that threads into the tuner body, same as on the J200 pics above. The hole size in the headstock are different for each version. Cheers You may also need to get the adaptor bushings when changing from Grovers to Kluson-style, as the post diameters and resulting hole diameters in the headstock are different in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Going Grover Rotomatics to Grover Keystones is a direct fit, requiring only the top hole for the dual screw Keystone machine to be drilled. I did this change on my Hummingbird, and if you stay with Grovers you'll be okay......no weird bushing change required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GotTheSilver Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Going Grover Rotomatics to Grover Keystones is a direct fit, requiring only the top hole for the dual screw Keystone machine to be drilled. I did this change on my Hummingbird, and if you stay with Grovers you'll be okay......no weird bushing change required. Do you know if this is also true for an ES-335? I have one with Grover Rotomatics that I would like to put tulips on. Same tuners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Buc do you have a link for the exact ones I need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby b Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Buc do you have a link for the exact ones I need? Buc is correct, the swap is easy and fitting should be the same. These should be the ones that'll work if your replacing the grovers http://www.wdmusic.com/tpk_kluson_3+3_25_64_locking_tuners_15:1_keystone_button_chrome_tpkb3l_c.html http://www.wdmusic.com/media/images/products/TPKB3L_C.jpg I did the same swap on my previous Hummingbird, the bottom holes lined up ok. I used them without drilling the top screw holes with no issues. Be careful not to over-tighten the bushing that goes through the headstock as the lacquer can 'lift' see example in this link.... http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/custom-shop/140941-nitro-finish-lifting-headstock.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 these are the ones that you need grover tuners here is the phone number, so can can be 100% sure 800-848-2273 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 My Hummingbird had Grover Rotomatics from the factory, the standard size (not the mini's). I ordered Grover #135N Keystones to replace them and the fit was perfect. The single screw of the original Rotos matched the bottom screw of the Keystones. There is a second screw at the top of the Keystones that does require drilling, but I still have not yet done that as it's not at all critical to the install. The "N" in the part number is for nickle.......you would want to order "G" if you want them in gold finish. ps.........got them from StewMac Yes. What he said.......Grover Deluxe Keystones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 What is the heck is the hit on Grover tuners???? I kind of like them. I know they are heavy, and retro looking, but I have them on two guitars and I like them. One luthier I talked to said they added weight to the headstock, and actually IMPROVED the tone of the guitar, but who knows..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 What is the heck is the hit on Grover tuners???? I kind of like them. I know they are heavy, and retro looking, but I have them on two guitars and I like them. One luthier I talked to said they added weight to the headstock, and actually IMPROVED the tone of the guitar, but who knows..... Well, the Grover Rotomatics simply look out of place on a Gibson, IMHO. And they are heavy. The Grover keystones are effectively a Kluson look-alike. I put Grover Sta-Tite (open back) on my old J-45 back in about 1970, and like them a lot. They replaced 1948-vintage three-on-a-strip Klusons which were pretty mediocre tuners. I put straight Kluson (not Tonepros) single-rings (keystone) on my 1947 L-7 last year (replacing five original 1947 Kluson single-rings and one later mis-matched Kluson) and like them better than the originals, in part because of the better gear ratio. Incidentally, the regular Kluson DeLuxe keystones do not have the screw-in bushings: they have the traditional press-in bushings, which are smaller in diameter than the screw-ins. And the old Grover Sta-tites also have press-ins. Not sure about the new ones. My ES 335 '59 Historic has the Gibson DeLuxe version of the keystones, which is pretty much the same as the standard Klusons. The Memphis ES 335's come with Rotomatics. That makes everything perfectly clear, doesn't it? Photo shows the Grover Sta-Tite nickel open-backs on my old J-45. I actually think they go pretty well with the art deco headstock. You might look at those hex bushings and think they are screw-ins. Wrong: they are actually press-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Great this is perfect! Thanks a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 It's all about proportion and aesthetics. Those Rotomatics looked downright goofy, like oversized false teeth on my '66 Martin, the first year these oversized (Butterbean) buttoned machines showed up on the D18. I swapped 'em out for the repro model tuners used on the preceding model year. The Stewmac Waverlies are as Hquality as the Grovers so all's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby b Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 It's all about proportion and aesthetics. I agree..... Always loved the look of the tulips... DSC_8950 by bobbyjeepyj, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Zimmerman Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Or keep the benefits of the Grover with the aesthetics of the tulip. Here you go: Regards, AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 I agree..... Always loved the look of the tulips... DSC_8950 by Gorgeousbobbyjeepyj, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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