J45 VS Hummingbird

[Flamed Froggy]

Hi guys,

Here in France it's pretty hard to find these guitars. Sellers are OK to order them but they have none in their store so I don't know their real sound. What are the differences between both ?. And I wonder if True Vintage is really a good deal or if Modern classics models are enough. I know there's no preamp on TV models and I like that but is it really interesting for me since TV are more expensive than MC ?

[Todd Wilson]

First, you won't regret the purchase of either. I own a Hummingbird, but the J-45 is an incredible instrument. Amazing sound!

 

Just not as good as the Hummingbird in my opinion.

 

As for the modern classic and true vintage models, I've played both side by side. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!

 

The true vintages sound even better. However, they don't have pickups.

 

However, with regards to the Hummingbird, my artists series sounds closer to the true vintage than the modern classic.

 

If you're playing for yourself, spend the money and get the true vintage, you won't regret it. However........... if you plan on gigging, recording, etc. get the modern classic.

 

Regardless of the model or style, I have played all of those and in my opinion they are in the elite class of guitars that my money could ever buy.

 

I have a friend with a $9,000 custom Taylor........ it's nowhere close to any of the Hummingbird or J-45 models.

[Flamed Froggy]

Thanks Todd for your reply.

I play at home and I don't need a pream. Anyway I hate preamp sound and I'm happy that better sound is on TV models. Now I have a Takamine Jumbo EN 20 and when I record a song I use a microphone (Shure SM 57). I'm sure I will have a great sound with a Gibson acoustic because I already have three solid body guitars and they sound good.

I feel you prefer hummingbird but you didn't tell me why. More bass ? More sustain ? Powerful sound ? I have to get many details beacause as I said before, here it's impossible to play them in a store because no one has them. I tried to find some test on YouTube but no one has both so I heard one with one guy and the other with another man so it's impossible to compare.

Try to be straight when you describe the sound : no impression, no feeling just what you hear. I know it's very difficult but I haven't the choice. Here a Hummingbird TV costs €3,000 it means about $3800 so I have to be sure.

 

Actually I need a powerful sound, with a lot of bass and a lot of brightness, you know what I mean.

[ajsc]

Time for my 2 cents worth,

I say if you want a hummingbird, then order one. You won't be disappointed!! Just make sure it can be returned if it's not what you thought it would be.

I 'think" from reading todd's post that he has a "Hummingbird Artist"? If that's the case it's not the same thing as a Hummingbird!!

It's not just a simple version of the Hummingbird, it's different!! Different bracing, different guitar.

If you like the J-45 you really can't go wrong with that either. (Any model) The MC is very nice. I was about to buy one when an 05 J-45 Historic surfaced on Graig's List for a grand less.

I had a Hummingbird, once upon a time, but couldn't get past the bling, was afraid I might scratch it or something.

I want something I'm not afraid to play.

[Rambler]

Froggy--an often discussed topic. Search past threads. A lot depends on what you play: strum fingersytle, folk rock etc---?

 

A quick sum up: J45 Id wager is the most versatile: tubby bass, good bark, clear singing top end top. Flatpick, fingerpick, works in a lot of styles (Blues to Beatles to Bluegrass to Busking). Pretty comfortable to play for a big box. The Bird moves more air and has a deeper sound than the J45, but less cut/brilliance. Makes for a great rhythm box (think Stones), not so great for other uses (not that you cant; just not optimal). Listen to samples on Ytube.

 

If you play strictly acoustic , TV is worth it, if you can come up with the $$. More lightly braced hence more responsive. A used 90s 45 is fairly safe. Not so Birds-- the 25.5 scale ones before 99 dont have the sound.

[Al Zimmerman]

Hi Flamed Froggy!

 

Here is my experience:

I bought a second hand '06 J45 and couldn't stand it, so I had to sell it. For me it had too much trebles and no (or little) bass.

 

I went more or less through the same process ( I live in Spain, very difficult to try this kind of guitars), so I asked a lot of questions about the Hummingbird in different forums (including this one). Finally, I pulled the trigger and bought a MC Hummingbird in Vintage Sunburst from the USA. It may not have so much brightness, but it is more balanced, at least to me, being a little bit bassier than the J45. I use 012 strings and am very happy with the sound, being exactly what I expected. I play mainly rock, pop and folk, strumming, not so much fingerpicking.

 

Hope it helps!

 

Regards,

 

AL

[Rambler]

FF- Zim offers that "the Hummingbird ..is more balanced, at least to me." Balance generally refers to string to string volume across the tonal spectrum. The Bird, like most square shoulder dreads, accentuates low tones, so what Z is saying is that he appreciates the "bass bias" of the bird. The 45 is actually better balanced, string to string, but the stika/hog combo can be jangly, and is not for everybody. Find what works for you.

[Al Zimmerman]

FF- Zim offers that "the Hummingbird ..is more balanced' date=' at least to me." Balance generally refers to string to string volume across the tonal spectrum. The Bird, like most square shoulder dreads, accentuates low tones, so what Z is saying is that he appreciates the "bass bias" of the bird. The 45 is actually better balanced, string to string, but the stika/hog combo can be jangly, and is not for everybody. Find what works for you.

 

[/quote']

 

Couldn't have said it better! It is not that the J45 sounded bad, it is that I prefer the sound of the HB...

 

Thanks for the explanation, jkinnama!

 

Regards,

 

AL

[Hall]

 

Couldn't have said it better! It is not that the J45 sounded bad' date=' it is that I prefer the sound of the HB...

 

Thanks for the explanation, jkinnama!

 

Regards,

 

AL[/quote']

 

 

 

+1 as to jkinnama & Al

 

 

Steve

[Doc]

My J-45 (2007) was purchased new but needed a good deal of fret work due to a bump in the neck. Now it plays great.

 

One thing that's worth mentioning: the J-45, with it's sloped shoulders, is a smaller guitar. I like that a lot as I'm not a huge guy. It's a wonderful strummer, but I also enjoy for fingerpicking.

 

Lastly, I can't overstate how wonderful the J-45 is for songwriting. It's doesn't overpower the voice, allowing the song to shine through.

 

But really, you can't go wrong either way. Do, however, make sure that you have some sort of return policy. All guitar companies make a few duds.

[Todd Wilson]

Well, my preference for the Hummingbird is relegated to sound mostly. It just sounds better.

 

When I first played a J-45 I thought that it was closest in having that big bass sound and so forth, and it is, but the Bird's is just a little more and has a warmth to it, that I don't know how to explain.

 

 

Again, not to take a thing away from the J-45. I want to own one day own one along with a J-200, but for my money, hands down, the best sounding guitar I have heard or played, is the Hummingbird. Love me, hate me, I don't care. It has a tonal quality that is unmatched.

[TWilson]

Forget about it! buy an SJ-200 and let your worries fall by the wayside! Like Master Cunkhead once said. "Finding a good SJ-200 is like falling out of a boat and finding water." (I also have an '04 J-45 'hog and love it to death.) Good luck!!

[Flamed Froggy]

Thanks everybody. Now I imagine their sound and I think I will order a Hummingbird in True Vintage.

As for SJ 200, I already tested one and I didn't like it. Body size is pretty big but sound is weak. There's no power nor bass. Actually, I think maple is not so good for acoustic guitars.

Thanks again and see ya !

[TWilson]

Thanks everybody. Now I imagine their sound and I think I will order a Hummingbird in True Vintage.

As for SJ 200' date=' I already tested one and I didn't like it. Body size is pretty big but sound is weak. There's no power nor bass. Actually, I think maple is not so good for acoustic guitars.

Thanks again and see ya ![/quote']

 

Wow, you must have tried the only SJ-200 dud in existence! If you want big bass, get an AJ. I beg to difer with you on the use of Maple in acoustic guitars. It sounds like you are looking for one very narrowly defined sound and all others are not worthy. I think you are missing out on a lot of other wonderful sounds. An SJ-200 may be a lot of things, but "weak" is not one of them!! I challenge you to a duel!! lol

[wonderful remark]

Thanks everybody. Now I imagine their sound and I think I will order a Hummingbird in True Vintage.

As for SJ 200' date=' I already tested one and I didn't like it. Body size is pretty big but sound is weak. There's no power nor bass. Actually, I think maple is not so good for acoustic guitars.

Thanks again and see ya ![/quote']

 

Weak.......??????????????????????????????????

 

hmm........ are you sure you played an SJ200????

[Rambler]

Gentlemen, please. Our friend M. Frogg is entitled to his preferences. Besides, if a player longs for warmth, deep bass, and ringing trebles (as an affacianado of the Hummingbird might), then the J200 will not pass muster. The bass thumps, the trebles die quick, the overtones are MIA. In short, it's dry as the desert in June. What else might one expect in a big maple box? Those suckers moves the air, but they are more resoundin' than ringin'.

[Todd Wilson]

Honestly, with it's reputation and size, I expected more from the SJ-200. I've played a half dozen or more, and have played it side by side to the J-45 and Hummingbird and both had more bass and were louder.

 

Again, the SJ-200 sounded fine, but not like the others.

 

 

And when I say I played them side by side..... The store I played them at had a great selection of both, and once there was a mobile Gibson truck that had stopped by on a day I visited. The back opened up and they had a few dozen guitars on disply, tuned up and let anyone strolling by play what they wanted to. A great marketing idea, as I played guitars I had never seen in stores.

 

They had modern classic and true vintage versions of each, the Vine edition of the SJ, the Montana Gold, several different Doves, I mean, I sat in the truck for 2 hours playing every lick and chord I knew at the time...... I desperately want an SJ-200, but the Hummingbird and J-45 outperform it according to my ears.

 

Also, based on that afternoon...... the Southern Jumbo and the Dove are fine guitars, just not a sound I prefer. Better than many comparably priced guitars, but not a Hummingbird or J-45.

 

The Arlo Guthrie model wasn't impressive. Very tinny, perhaps if you are into folk more than I am.

 

The Blues King is a top notch guitar. A lot more sound than you expect.

 

The Robert Johnson model......I hate to say it almost, but it's a gem. Looks and sounds incredible! He's one of my favorite players, and frankly, I'm not crazy about Gibson using his name like they are on the guitar when he probably paid $20 bucks for his, but it's an incredible sounding guitar. A little bigger than I expected, and a lot bigger sound. It will be my next one lord willing and the river don't rise.

 

The SJ200 Vine...........the most beautiful guitar I have ever laid eyes on! Absolutely gorgeous, and a great sound, it and the true vintage sounded better than the modern classic or the Montana Gold editions.

 

The songwriter and songwriter deluxe......excellent guitars! A more classic look, but similar in playability and sound to the J45, wouldn't mind having one, but that's down the line some barring a lottery victory.

[ajsc]

Thanks everybody. Now I imagine their sound and I think I will order a Hummingbird in True Vintage.

As for SJ 200' date=' I already tested one and I didn't like it. Body size is pretty big but sound is weak. There's no power nor bass. Actually, I think maple is not so good for acoustic guitars.

Thanks again and see ya ![/quote']

 

If you want power & bass, you might want to consider an advanced Jumbo, the are priced about the same as a J-45.

They are powerful, with plenty of bass.

[PickitPaul]

I've got a Hummingbird - an HC not a MC. I think that the HC is half way between the MC & TV, because there is no pickups in the HC's. They were before the MC and I don't think they were made for very long. I have played the MC, and the bracing seems to look the same.

 

I read that the original H'bird from the early 60's were built to replicate Martin's D body style, and did not have scalloped bracing. All the newer ones now have scalloped bracing. Do they sound the same? The old non-scallop bracing makes the old ones have more thump?

 

I have not played a real old one - anyone here have? I guess with the scallop braces, one doesn't have to wait 40 years for it to sound "old".

[jefleppard]

 

Wow' date=' you must have tried the only SJ-200 dud in existence! If you want big bass, get an AJ. I beg to difer with you on the use of Maple in acoustic guitars. It sounds like you are looking for one very narrowly defined sound and all others are not worthy. I think you are missing out on a lot of other wonderful sounds. An SJ-200 may be a lot of things, but "weak" is not one of them!! I challenge you to a duel!! lol[/color']

 

maple jumbos at dawn it is then.

a guy in my songwriting group has a coveted '89 j200. he paid $1900cdn for it in 1990. this is the most gigantic guitar i've ever heard.

[Rambler]

"maple jumbos at dawn it is then." Lol. good one!

 

While it would appear M. Flame has made up his mind, it might be worth pointing out that while, yes, the AJ puts out the basses (+), its top end and chord sound can be a bit, uhm, bracing (-). It could not be counted upon to give FF the plummy warmth and sweetness of Big Bird.

[Jinder]

I am a confirmed SJ nut, my SJ200 is very balanced and is a great all-rounder, but I have played some that are very bass-light. I worked with Graham Gouldman from 10CC recently, and he has a great SJ200 from '07, which sounds terrific but very light on the bottom end. Blindfolded, his and mine would seem to be utterly different guitars. The new Hog SJ100 is unbelievable, btw. I have never heard such an imposing wall of tone in all my days. I want one!

 

I think a Hummingbird is a great all-round choice...special looks, knockout tone and wonderful playability. When I haven't picked mine up for a day or two, my fingers LONG to play it. I have never had that with another guitar, an actual physical yearning in my fingers to pick it up.

[jefleppard]

I am a confirmed SJ nut' date=' my SJ200 is very balanced and is a great all-rounder, but I have played some that are very bass-light. I worked with Graham Gouldman from 10CC recently, and he has a great SJ200 from '07, which sounds terrific but very light on the bottom end. Blindfolded, his and mine would seem to be utterly different guitars. The new Hog SJ100 is unbelievable, btw. I have never heard such an imposing wall of tone in all my days. I want one!

 

I think a Hummingbird is a great all-round choice...special looks, knockout tone and wonderful playability. When I haven't picked mine up for a day or two, my fingers LONG to play it. I have never had that with another guitar, an actual physical yearning in my fingers to pick it up.[/quote']

 

that hog (remember that tree guy that gave us heck for saying "hog"?) j100 is on my short list (what isn't?) to play but there isnt one within 3500K of here. i hope to see one at the michigan guitar show on the 30th.

edit for foul language!

[Doc]

I don't mind admitting it: I am not a maple fan. Frankly, I just don't get it.

 

Hogs are great for balance, rosewood is king for warmth, but maple? I guess its ace in the hole is that deep, dry thump you get from pickin' single notes on a J-200.

 

Please take a look at the Sheryl Crow model as well. My buddy owns one, and damned if it isn't one of the most spectacular-sounding guitars I've ever played. What's more, I think the look is classic, without the flashy (bold?) cosmetics of the Hummingbird.

 

As the owner of a J-45 and Martin HD-28V, I've sorta convinced myself that I really don't need any more acoustic guitars. However, I may end treating myself to a Martin D-18 or Hummingbird someday. Perhaps a smaller-bodied rosewood guitar would also be a good choice. Maybe a modestly sized Collings?

 

Best,

 

Doc

[Rambler]

Doc, dont think you are alone about maple. Its the dry amp of acoustics. Some folks just need reverb. But if you like it dry--that thump can be great for comping chords and intricate fingerstyle runs. Places where, guitaristically, less is more. For ex-check out Rev. Gary Davis or Ernie Hawkins on YT.