MissouriPicker Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Anyone hear about this today? Within a few weeks, the advantage of buying out-of-state over the internet(no tax for non-residents) may end. They said that most states are so short on cash that they are considering charging tax on all sales made on the internet. I know this is a sign-of-the-times, but it's also a good way for businesses to make money while the buyer saves some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J200_2013 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 BUT...why are they short of cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Many states have done this for years. There has been a line on state income tax returns where you are supposed to claim your online purchases.... of course the problem has been that everyone claims nothing and there is practically no way for authorities to check up on you in this realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Politicians have two goals in their careers - to stay in office until they retire and, in order to do that- to raise taxes so they can garnish favors from groups of voters to whom the give the money or benefit. In this case, brick and mortar retailers anchored to one location have higher costs and limited geographic markets. In order to level the playing field, they've been crying for sales taxes to be levied. Politicians are only too happy to oblige, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 heard that too. Sounds as if politicians of all stripes are on board with the idea of reviving a 1992 Supreme Court decision striking down certain forms of internet related sales tax. Their decision did however give an out clause, permitting Congress to revoke this decision if they so desire. Quite frankly, I'm surprised it lasted this long. I do believe it's coming. May be another year or two, but once Congress gets that nose under the tent, it's just a matter of time before you look up and their right there in the tent with you. Speaking of politicians: This is one of my all-time favorites. I have two naval architects who work for me, and we sit around and watch this skit about once a month, to the point that we have it completely memorized. I clearly need to get a life. A wave? At sea? Chance in a million! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMinderbinder Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 heard that too. Sounds as if politicians of all stripes are on board with the idea of reviving a 1992 Supreme Court decision striking down certain forms of internet related sales tax. Their decision did however give an out clause, permitting Congress to revoke this decision if they so desire. Quite frankly, I'm surprised it lasted this long. I do believe it's coming. May be another year or two, but once Congress gets that nose under the tent, it's just a matter of time before you look up and their right there in the tent with you. Speaking of politicians: Never saw that one before - hilarious! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 In (NY/NJ) it already is financial tyranny with tolls, fines,fees & taxes. Our last house..16 miles from the city..our property tax from 1996 to 2009 went from $12k to $30k..$6k in one jump the last year.. and drove us right out of our house. In that town the very smallest 3 Bedroom house is paying $14-15k. Are they intending to charge sales tax if a private person is selling they're personal effects as well on ebay? Add to that the 9-11% ebay fees & 3% Paypal levies, transportation costs..who's gonna buy..Id say that will be the straw that does it. Add to that the additional costs indirectly for bigger government to over see it. How many things become out of reach with that extra 10%. For many businesses..10% is all they hope to net from an item. These people are burying the economy with every little move. The last couple of years cameras are being installed at every intersection in PA..& some parts of NJ my wife just won't drive there for fear of making a mistake. We cant afford points & tickets.Now you need to hire people to sit infront of those cameras and watch YOU. Fear..rules..oversight..opposite of freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 ... there's NOTHING out there but sea, birds and fish.... and 20,000 tons of crude oil.... and the part of the ship that the front fell off... but other than that it is perfectly safe. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisA83 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Am I missing something here? I don't see the problem. Why shouldn't you pay sales tax on products just because you bought them on the internet or from another state? Over here we have to pay our equivalent (VAT) on everything apart from certain 'essential' items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMinderbinder Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Am I missing something here? I don't see the problem. Why shouldn't you pay sales tax on products just because you bought them on the internet or from another state? Over here we have to pay our equivalent (VAT) on everything apart from certain 'essential' items. In the US, each state determines their own sales tax, and some states have none while others are by now pushing 10%. Some cities also add to that, so sales taxes vary geographically, and by a lot. I think the rationale for even having a sales tax is to tax the local businesses benefiting from the infrastructure that the state provides them, so they have always just taxed the sales of items originating in their state, or by a retailer that has an establishment in that state. My guess is that states never collected sales taxes on purchases made out of state because it was illegal to tax out of state transactions. Now, if the buying state wants a cut, they don't really have much of an argument for doing so because the state isn't providing anything in return for the tax, other than the roads that already are being paid for by the taxes of the companies delivering the products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 In the US, each state determines their own sales tax, and some states have none while others are by now pushing 10%. Some cities also add to that, so sales taxes vary geographically, and by a lot. I think the rationale for even having a sales tax is to tax the local businesses benefiting from the infrastructure that the state provides them, so they have always just taxed the sales of items originating in their state, or by a retailer that has an establishment in that state. My guess is that states never collected sales taxes on purchases made out of state because it was illegal to tax out of state transactions. Now, if the buying state wants a cut, they don't really have much of an argument for doing so because the state isn't providing anything in return for the tax, other than the roads that already are being paid for by the taxes of the companies delivering the products. Actually, sales taxes are simply general revenue for most states, since states have the power to tax certain types of transactions that take place within their borders. Sales taxes almost always go into the general fund of the taxing entity, are not not tied to specific things like highway infrastructure, which is supported by fuel taxes and vehicle licensing fees. Interstate taxing policy is a tricky business, and is unlikely to go far in an election year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Am I missing something here? I don't see the problem. Why shouldn't you pay sales tax on products just because you bought them on the internet or from another state? Over here we have to pay our equivalent (VAT) on everything apart from certain 'essential' items. Yes..but in that VAT is included your health care, here it has to be paid for seperately (last I heard my brother was paying eqiv.£10,000 per year on his individual plan for health insurance for his family) And a European would find the property tax here much more burdensome compared to the counsil/property tax. The goal here..is to tax..& give nothing. Basically here we are paying, but under a different name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 In the US, each state determines their own sales tax, and some states have none while others are by now pushing 10%. Some cities also add to that, so sales taxes vary geographically, and by a lot. I think the rationale for even having a sales tax is to tax the local businesses benefiting from the infrastructure that the state provides them, so they have always just taxed the sales of items originating in their state, or by a retailer that has an establishment in that state. My guess is that states never collected sales taxes on purchases made out of state because it was illegal to tax out of state transactions. Now, if the buying state wants a cut, they don't really have much of an argument for doing so because the state isn't providing anything in return for the tax, other than the roads that already are being paid for by the taxes of the companies delivering the products. They do have an argument..they call it a "use tax"...you are using it in they're state. (What a disgrace no? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMinderbinder Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Actually, sales taxes are simply general revenue for most states, since states have the power to tax certain types of transactions that take place within their borders. Sales taxes almost always go into the general fund of the taxing entity, are not not tied to specific things like highway infrastructure, which is supported by fuel taxes and vehicle licensing fees. Interstate taxing policy is a tricky business, and is unlikely to go far in an election year. I don't think we're disagreeing about what happens. I was offering a comment on the 'why' and not the 'how.' If we go back in history, villages used to have market days where people from the surrounding area used to come and sell their goods, and in return for the use of the location (and possibly security while there), fees were paid to local authorities. Our commerce is much more complicated than that, but I think the same basic concept applies. Oh, and of course, the creation of new burdensome taxes on the colonies helped spark a little protest against the English crown that has had a lasting impact on history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 ... but it's also a good way for businesses to make money while the buyer saves some money. How exactly do my local guitar shops make money from buyers saving some money by buying from low-overhead out-of-state mega-dealers the locals can't possibly compete with on price due to a sales tax of around 9%? Or did you mean it's a good way for some businesses to make money and for others to lose their shirts? :) -- Bob R P.S. I have some opinions on state sales taxes, but I'm not going to air them here. It is supposed to be a guitar forum. (Just as well, as they're not really suitable for polite company anyway.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yes..but in that VAT is included your health care, here it has to be paid for seperately (last I heard my brother was paying eqiv.£10,000 per year on his individual plan for health insurance for his family) And a European would find the property tax here much more burdensome compared to the counsil/property tax. The goal here..is to tax..& give nothing. Basically here we are paying, but under a different name. Actually VAT is not the source of health care in any European country that I've lived in, visited or had treatment in. In the UK National Insurance (levied from salaries on top of income tax) is supposed to cover it. In Hungary we pay a similar thing called TB to the same end. In France people need to take out personal health insurance to cover a percentage of their care, despite state subvention. My experiences in two different German states are akin to those in France - health or travel insurance was certainly needed when I or one of mine needed treatment. US property taxes certainly look sky high. How much income tax do you pay at state or federal level though? In the UK the equivalent of property tax is likely to be upwards of 1K sterling even for a house of 70m2. That's on top of income tax and NI of 25% on any earnings over about 10K and of 40% on anything over 32K. Income tax is higher just about everywhere else in Europe. In Hungary there's no local tax, but all income is taxed nationally at 40% unless you have a big family. 10K sterling before tax would be a good annual salary here. Stuff costs the same as anywhere else in Europe too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMinderbinder Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 US property taxes certainly look sky high. How much income tax do you pay at state or federal level though? Property taxes also vary by state and county. In Texas, we don't have state income taxes, but our property taxes are relatively high, so it can be a tradeoff. Our annual property taxes are around 2.2% of the value of our home. Federal income taxes vary depending on one's income, with the higher income tax brackets paying more than the lower. It's a very contentious issue in the US with all kinds of accusations about who pays their fair share, and what not. At the moment, the highest income tax bracket is 35%. If you live in a state like CA, the max income tax rate for the state is 9.3%. Americans also pay social security (a pension fund) of 6.2% that has an annual cap, along with 1.5% for Medicaid. Of course, there are sales taxes on everything but food in most places, along with a lot of 'hidden' taxes that are included in the advertised price of the product (gasoline, for example). With all that in mind, a high income earner in a place like CA or many others with high state income taxes can approach 50% or more of their income lost to taxation, and then they also still pay sales and hidden taxes. To further complicate matters, there are lots of legal income tax deductions that our governments allow people to use in order to decrease the amount on which they pay taxes. One of the most common deductions is for the interest paid on a home's mortgage, and it can be an important element to a family's finances. Anyway, Americans can get quite animated about who they think should be paying more or less taxes, but almost all Americans agree that the tax code needs a complete overhaul. That's about all I should say without offering political opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Actually VAT is not the source of health care in any European country that I've lived in, visited or had treatment in. In the UK National Insurance (levied from salaries on top of income tax) is supposed to cover it. In Hungary we pay a similar thing called TB to the same end. In France people need to take out personal health insurance to cover a percentage of their care, despite state subvention. My experiences in two different German states are akin to those in France - health or travel insurance was certainly needed when I or one of mine needed treatment. US property taxes certainly look sky high. How much income tax do you pay at state or federal level though? In the UK the equivalent of property tax is likely to be upwards of 1K sterling even for a house of 70m2. That's on top of income tax and NI of 25% on any earnings over about 10K and of 40% on anything over 32K. Income tax is higher just about everywhere else in Europe. In Hungary there's no local tax, but all income is taxed nationally at 40% unless you have a big family. 10K sterling before tax would be a good annual salary here. Stuff costs the same as anywhere else in Europe too... Oh man..all that sounds like a similar jumble of "too much taxes" as well. Excuse my grumbling . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Internet sales are poison to shopkeepers. People go to the shops, inspect the wares - expensive flyrods, guitars, or what have you, and then buy them online to save the 5-10% sales tax. And then wonder why their favorite flyfishing store closed, or the guitar shop now only carries brands they've never heard of. The overhead costs of running a shop are a far higher % of sales than compared to the high volume internet sellers. I rarely buy off the internet if I can find it at a local shop. Course, I'm also the guy that misses his dial telephone, and for the life of me cannot figure out how to record thru my Focusrite Studio 24 thing onto my I Mac. None of which were bought off the web. I think there ought to be a National Sales tax on internet sales. Level the playing field a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisA83 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Ok, so overall it sounds like quite a mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Anyone hear about this today? Within a few weeks, the advantage of buying out-of-state over the internet(no tax for non-residents) may end. They said that most states are so short on cash that they are considering charging tax on all sales made on the internet. I know this is a sign-of-the-times, but it's also a good way for businesses to make money while the buyer saves some money. States that charge sales tax have said for years, they are owed this money. Enforcing it is another issue. In my state, you are on your honor to honestly calculate the amount of sales tax you owe for internet purchase, and out of state purchases, for which my State was not paid. You volunteer the amount, then pay it with your annual income tax. I purchase precious little on the internet. I'm just paranoid enough to believe they can 'find out', then hammer me for the tax. In recent years the State has been sending bills to purchasers of internet cigarettes, for which State Cigarette Taxes haven't been paid. Somehow, "they" know. BUT...why are they short of cash? Partly, because of the loss of sales tax revenue. Partly due to loss of income tax revenue due to people being out of work. Mostly, though, due to decades of mismanagement from the state house and executive mansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 ...I think there ought to be a National Sales tax on internet sales. Level the playing field a bit. In my not so humble opinion... Absolutely not! That would have to be a federal tax and little would trickle down to the states without some sort of capitulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 In my not so humble opinion... Absolutely not! That would have to be a federal tax and little would trickle down to the states without some sort of capitulation. There is precious little flowing to the states now from internet sales tax. For internet sellers, much easier to pay one rate, and one entity than 50. Proceeds from such a tax could be directed towards specific things that are important nationally, like figuring out how to successfully grow and harvest high quality Rosewood. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Proceeds from such a tax could be directed towards specific things that are important nationally, like figuring out how to successfully grow and harvest high quality Rosewood. :) I was interested in the "grow and harvest" idea until you said "rosewood". At my age, I need something that grows faster....... And no, not even spruce grows fast enough. I did consider panting a mahogany tree last year, however. Planted a live oak instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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