Rush. Snakes and Arrows.

[LarryUK]

I watched the above concert the other night and in my opinion Alex Lifeson isn't a great player. He's way outclassed by the other two and is almost what we classed years ago as a 'Rhythm' player. Even though he does solo's I've not seen him do a decent one. I'm not posting this to slag him off as he fits perfectly in the band. It also proves that the band is more important than the individual. I've seen some great players that can't play in a band, hence it's about working together and keeping the ego's down.

 

On a sad note, I didn't know until I looked them up on Wiki that Neal had lost his wife and son in less than 12 months. Dreadful.

[Zeppelinguy]

I think Lifeson is a very respectable guitar player, but like many, he's placed on a pedestal that he doesn't fulfill nor necessarily even want.

[kaleb]

I understand that everybody has an opinion, and tastes differ from one individual to another, but...

 

You obviously haven't listened to a lot of the old Rush stuff (pre-80s), or the deeper cuts from post-Permanent Waves (1980) stuff, now have you? Listen to the solos in most of the older songs, as well as the solos in "Limelight", "Natural Science", "Freewill", "Red Barchetta", "YYZ", "The Analog Kid", "Kid Gloves", and some newer solos, such as "Headlong Flight" for example, and then tell me he isn't a "great" player...

 

Hell, just listen to the live version of "Bytor And The Snow Dog" from All The World's A Stage (1976. Recorded during the 2112 tour), and then answer my question.

 

He could have been a "guitar hero", but instead, he chose a different route. His post-Permanent Waves work is highly textural, and compliments the band better. In the early days, wailing away and going for it was important for the music they were playing at the time; not so much 10 years later. He uses a lot of complicated chord and arppegiated patterns, as well as melodies. Geddy Lee once said that Alex gets bored very quickly which makes him want to write unconventional parts and play unconventional solos. Also, his style is somewhat unorthodox, but it's very unique. Nobody sounds like Alex. He's a one-of-a-kind freak of nature if you ask me!

 

Damn, how could you say "Working Man" doesn't feature a great solo?!?!?! Especially if you like Zeppelin.....(Do you?)

 

 

Oh, and it's NEIL!

[damian]

I watched the above concert the other night and in my opinion Alex Lifeson isn't a great player. He's way outclassed by the other two and is almost what we classed years ago as a 'Rhythm' player. Even though he does solo's I've not seen him do a decent one. I'm not posting this to slag him off as he fits perfectly in the band. It also proves that the band is more important than the individual. I've seen some great players that can't play in a band, hence it's about working together and keeping the ego's down.

 

On a sad note, I didn't know until I looked them up on Wiki that Neal had lost his wife and son in less than 12 months. Dreadful.

 

I take it you're another BucketHead fan....... .....

[kaleb]

I think alex Lifeson is a respectable guitar player, but like many rock musicians he's placed on a pedestal that he doesn't necessarily fulfill nor even want.

 

 

He's not underrated, but he's not overrated, either IMHO!

 

Some guys have their horn tooted so much they can't even make a sound. For instance, I love the old-school (pre-Dominos) Clapton, but I think he's overrated. Does that mean I am right? No, but Eric wouldn't have won the hearts of guitarists with 461 Ocean Boulevard IMHO. He won the critics with that. But he won us with the Beano album, all the Cream stuff, as well as Blind Faith and the Dominos.

 

And although I am a fan, I think Slash is overrated. People toot his horn too much. Some act like he's some virtuoso, which he's not. He's just a great rock player.

 

I used to think Jimmy Page was overrated too, but the live version (yes, the 27-minute long version!) of "Dazed N' Confused" came on the Sirius radio and I remembered how brilliant he actually was.

 

Page is a virtuoso. EVH is a virtuoso. Randy Rhoads was a virtuoso. Hendrix was a virtuoso. Beck (as in Jeff...) is a virtuoso. Gilmour is a virtuoso. Buchanan was a virtuoso. Eric Johnson is a virtuoso. Yngwie is a virtuoso. Satch, Vai, Gilbert, Batio, Petrucci, etc, are all virtuosos. Andy Timmons is a virtuoso.

 

Slash is not, he's just a great rock player. EC is not, he's just a great melodic blues player. BB is not, he's just a great old-school blues guy that is great with vibrato. Ace Frehley is not. Angus Young is not. Rev. Willy G is not. Pete Townshend is not. Kenny Wayne is not.

 

Now, guys like Alex, Alvin Lee, Michael Schenker, Matthias Jabs, Brian Robertson, Gary Moore, Scott Gorham (the whole Lizzy camp...), George Lynch, Johnny Winter, Duane Allman, Dickey Betts, Mike Bloomfield, Peter Green, Paul Kossoff, Bonamassa, SRV, Warren DeMartini, Bruce Kulick, Richie Scarlet, Glen Buxton, Robby Krieger, Aldrich, Sykes, etc, are neither....

 

But they are freaks of nature and that's what I like about them.

[Rocky4]

I haven't liked anything Rush did after A Farewell To Kings, but for God's sake Lifesons always been a top tier guitarist in my book. I'm dying to know who you consider good.

[kidblast]

There isn't a player on the planet that would be able to fit in with Lee and Pert, and find there own space like Lifeson has done. Have you ever tried to copy note for note, one of his leads? Give YYZ a shot some time, tell me if you STILL feel the same way.

[swampash]

You should watch the documentary "Far from the Lighted Stage" that came out last year just to see how good Lifeson was in the early days.

[Kimbabig]

I've always thought Alex was one of the tastiest soloers ever, and his rhythm playing is also top notch.

 

I'm not saying the OP said this, but some people think the only aspect to virtuosity is speed.

[LarryUK]

I take it you're another BucketHead fan....... .....

I think Buckethead is a decent player, But I not heard anything I like from him. So, no, I'm not a fan. He's just another 'shredhead'.

[Twiz]

For me, originality usually trumps virtuosity. -Players that you immediately know it's them when you hear them. I think Mr. Lifeson's playing has that quality. Recently I've been really listening to 2112 and Moving Pictures a lot. The guitar work is amazing.

[LarryUK]

He's not underrated, but he's not overrated, either IMHO!

 

Some guys have their horn tooted so much they can't even make a sound. For instance, I love the old-school (pre-Dominos) Clapton, but I think he's overrated. Does that mean I am right? No, but Eric wouldn't have won the hearts of guitarists with 461 Ocean Boulevard IMHO. He won the critics with that. But he won us with the Beano album, all the Cream stuff, as well as Blind Faith and the Dominos.

 

And although I am a fan, I think Slash is overrated. People toot his horn too much. Some act like he's some virtuoso, which he's not. He's just a great rock player.

 

I used to think Jimmy Page was overrated too, but the live version (yes, the 27-minute long version!) of "Dazed N' Confused" came on the Sirius radio and I remembered how brilliant he actually was.

 

Page is a virtuoso. EVH is a virtuoso. Randy Rhoads was a virtuoso. Hendrix was a virtuoso. Beck (as in Jeff...) is a virtuoso. Gilmour is a virtuoso. Buchanan was a virtuoso. Eric Johnson is a virtuoso. Yngwie is a virtuoso. Satch, Vai, Gilbert, Batio, Petrucci, etc, are all virtuosos. Andy Timmons is a virtuoso.

 

Slash is not, he's just a great rock player. EC is not, he's just a great melodic blues player. BB is not, he's just a great old-school blues guy that is great with vibrato. Ace Frehley is not. Angus Young is not. Rev. Willy G is not. Pete Townshend is not. Kenny Wayne is not.

 

Now, guys like Alex, Alvin Lee, Michael Schenker, Matthias Jabs, Brian Robertson, Gary Moore, Scott Gorham (the whole Lizzy camp...), George Lynch, Johnny Winter, Duane Allman, Dickey Betts, Mike Bloomfield, Peter Green, Paul Kossoff, Bonamassa, SRV, Warren DeMartini, Bruce Kulick, Richie Scarlet, Glen Buxton, Robby Krieger, Aldrich, Sykes, etc, are neither....

 

But they are freaks of nature and that's what I like about them.

I couldn't have written this better myself. I'm almost in total agreement with you. There are players and there are wizards. I listen a lot to Andy Timmons at the moment. I personally think he's got more style than Satriani. I think Vai is probably the best out there, But he does nothing for me. Give me Lukather any time.

Listen to his Rosanna solo at the end of the song (extended version). I think it's the tastiest solo I've heard and he's only about 17!. It's got melody and style. When will people realise it's not about speed. It's emotion and style. Just because I don't think Lifeson is a great player. doesn't mean I think he's s**t. I think he's just an OK player that hides behind effects and has crap vibrato.

[kidblast]

Recently I've been really listening to 2112 and Moving Pictures a lot. The guitar work is amazing.

 

I listen to Moving Pictures about once a week while I'm on my daily runs. That album offers a brilliant example of Lifeson's work. Counter Parts is another great (more recent) album that I enjoy listening to. Out of all the music I have, I think I listen to Rush more than anything, I can't imagine how anyone can say Alex is not a good player. But that's just my opinion.

 

"I think he's just an OK player that hides behind effects and has crap vibrato."

 

You couldn't be more off base buddy

[LarryUK]

There isn't a player on the planet that would be able to fit in with Lee and Pert, and find there own space like Lifeson has done. Have you ever tried to copy note for note, one of his leads? Give YYZ a shot some time, tell me if you STILL feel the same way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mR0tzt9XaM

I'm watching it now. At 1.20 his use of the vibrato is dire. No timing to it and from then on it's bum notes galore. I've not heard him do any decent vibrato on anything.

I really think, he's just an OK player. He fits the band and that's what it's all about. They're successful because they work together.

I think the heart of a great player is vibrato. It's all about the feel. Angus Young has dreadful vibrato. Satch has great vibrato. Schon is one of the best. I don't care if I like the player or not, but some can play fast and that's all! They have no substance.

[kidblast]

On a sad note, I didn't know until I looked them up on Wiki that Neal had lost his wife and son in less than 12 months. Dreadful.

 

So lets just agree that we disagree about Alex, I'm ok with that, everyone has their likes..

 

About Neil's saga, yes it was an awful thing, but he didn't have a son, it was his daughter, she was killed in a car accident (Actually I think she was struck while walking across a busy street) while away at school in Paris, and it was about a year later his wife was diagnosed, and quickly died from some rare and aggressive form of brain cancer.

 

This was soon after The Test For Echo tour, If you ever get the notion, pickup "Ghost Rider". It's the biography of Neil's journey around north America on a motor cycle, as he was trying to get past what had just happened in his life. Some of it is slow reading, but it was over all an enjoyable read.

[LarryUK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJZqiF-9D38

This is how to play. I think he's a fantastic player. His vibrato is superb and his style is great.

He puts emotion into his playing like and every note matters. There aren't many players that can play like this. He's currently the band guitarist for 'The Voice' an American tv show. Plus he was Pink's touring player (if you don't know him).

 

 

 

....and. no. I don't think Lifeson could ever play at this standard. Past or present. Mind you...many others couldn't either.

[kidblast]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJZqiF-9D38

This is how to play. I think he's a fantastic player. His vibrato is superb and his style is great.

He puts emotion into his playing like and every note matters. There aren't many players that can play like this. He's currently the band guitarist for 'The Voice' an American tv show. Plus he was Pink's touring player (if you don't know him).

 

 

 

....and. no. I don't think Lifeson could ever play at this standard. Past or present. Mind you...many others couldn't either.

 

 

does nothing for me man..

[LarryUK]

That's 'Horses for courses' then. It's funny how we all like different things. It's a good job too, as what a boring world it'd be, eh?

I like Red Les Paul's with 3 pickups. But you may prefer sunburst. The fact we like Les Paul's. That's the important one.

[Kimbabig]

I really enjoyed Justin Derrico, everything he played was spot on and tasty too.

But as for comparing him to Lifeson would be unfair to him, I have heard numerous records Lifeson has played on and how creative he is. I have heard one song by Derrico and thus it would be unfair to judge his creativity based on one song.

 

But based on this song I can not tell he is any more creative or skilled than Lifeson.

[kidblast]

That's 'Horses for courses' then. It's funny how we all like different things. It's a good job too, as what a boring world it'd be, eh?

I like Red Les Paul's with 3 pickups. But you may prefer sunburst. The fact we like Les Paul's. That's the important one.

 

eggs-zackly,

 

I wasn't just being indifferent, the guys has incredible chops, no denial there. Steve Via another good example, and a player you mentioned I think earlier,... He is unbelievable, after about 3 songs, I just can't process anymore information! Satriani on the other hand, I can. To me, (you may not agree) Satch plays with more emotion and soul but I digress.

 

and YES,, I like Les Pauls immensely

[LarryUK]

eggs-zackly,

 

I wasn't just being indifferent, the guys has incredible chops, no denial there. Steve Via another good example, and a player you mentioned I think earlier,... He is unbelievable, after about 3 songs, I just can't process anymore information! Satriani on the other hand, I can. To me, (you may not agree) Satch plays with more emotion and soul but I digress.

 

and YES,, I like Les Pauls immensely

I listen to Satch when I drive. But that instrumental stuff gets boring. I find, he's so good, he's like a machine. I went to see him 18 months ago and he was great. I can listen to Andy Timmons more though. I find that TV is so bad now I just trawl through You Tube looking for good stuff.

I came across this player last week. He's great. His vibrato/slide is tasty. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd7fHFOCa10&feature=g-user-u

[kidblast]

I listen to Satch when I drive. But that instrumental stuff gets boring. I find, he's so good, he's like a machine. I went to see him 18 months ago and he was great. I can listen to Andy Timmons more though. I find that TV is so bad now I just trawl through You Tube looking for good stuff.

I came across this player last week. He's great. His vibrato/slide is tasty. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd7fHFOCa10&feature=g-user-u

 

I think that guy has SIC chops, and how can you not love the tone he's getting out of that strat, that was great. Gonna look for more of his stuff. Thanks for sharing.

[LPguitarman]

lashurst, to each his own. You have your opinions and everyone else has one too. IMO, Alex is one of the greatest all around guitarist's ever. He can play classical guitar, rythym, lead. He puts a lot of emotion in his playing, and he has one of the most unique styles ever. He can also play Taurus foot pedals while playing. Sure he uses effects, but I've also heard him with very little effects. It depends on the song, and IMO he doesn't rely solely on effects, he just uses them to enhance his already unique sound.

 

Around here, RUSH is known as the guitar player's dream band because everyone wants to learn his style and lick's.

 

I realize you're not bashing him, but I disagree with your appraisal.

 

As I said before, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[kaleb]

lashurst, to each his own. You have your opinions and everyone else has one too. IMO, Alex is one of the greatest all around guitarist's ever. He can play classical guitar, rythym, lead. He puts a lot of emotion in his playing, and he has one of the most unique styles ever. He can also play Taurus foot pedals while playing. Sure he uses effects, but I've also heard him with very little effects. It depends on the song, and IMO he doesn't rely solely on effects, he just uses them to enhance his already unique sound.

 

Around here, RUSH is known as the guitar player's dream band because everyone wants to learn his style and lick's.

 

I realize you're not bashing him, but I disagree with your appraisal.

 

As I said before, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

 

Exactly. He doesn't hide behind the effects; he uses them in a creative way to give his playing a unique character. And he doesn't use a lot of gain, either.

 

I really don't think one can "hide" behind effects (unless it's a shitload of reverb or delay) if they are great. They can if they are using a ton of distortion, but great players use effects for a reason. Brian May has nothing to hide behind. Neither does Gilmour or Andy Summers. I don't use a lot of effects (my sound is actually pretty dry and in-your-face), but that's only because A. I like it that way, and B. It's easier for me onstage. I could never do what Alex does. I mean, I know a lot of Rush tunes (which I play very poorly....), and stuff, but there's no way I could've written those guitar parts. And there's no way I could play with his live tone. It would be too revealing. I'm not exactly into the multi-channel amps with rackmount processers, I'm more of a Marshall with a few pedals in front guy.

 

And yes, we've all heard him with minimal effects. He played like that up through All The Worlds A Stage. That's my favorite stage (no pun intended) of his tone.

 

And I've always loved his vibrato. "Working Man", "Anthem", "Something For Nothing", and many other tunes show his vibrato. Sounds great to me. The reason it might sound a little sloppy and "dreadful" nowadays is because he's using the Floyd a ton. I watched the Live In Cleaveland video, and he had his hand on the bar pretty much at all times when he was using his signature LPs.

 

It's completely fine if one doesn't like Rush (after all, music is subjective, right?), but you still gotta give them respect. A lot of bands that get too much of it don't deserve it. Rush is one of the hardest working bands of the 20th century. They didn't listen to their record company and the critics. They chose to play the music that they wanted to play. That alone deserves respect IMHO.

[LPguitarman]

Exactly. He doesn't hide behind the effects; he uses them in a creative way to give his playing a unique character. And he doesn't use a lot of gain, either.

 

I really don't think one can "hide" behind effects (unless it's a shitload of reverb or delay) if they are great. They can if they are using a ton of distortion, but great players use effects for a reason. Brian May has nothing to hide behind. Neither does Gilmour or Andy Summers. I don't use a lot of effects (my sound is actually pretty dry and in-your-face), but that's only because A. I like it that way, and B. It's easier for me onstage. I could never do what Alex does. I mean, I know a lot of Rush tunes (which I play very poorly....), and stuff, but there's no way I could've written those guitar parts. And there's no way I could play with his live tone. It would be too revealing. I'm not exactly into the multi-channel amps with rackmount processers, I'm more of a Marshall with a few pedals in front guy.

 

And yes, we've all heard him with minimal effects. He played like that up through All The Worlds A Stage. That's my favorite stage (no pun intended) of his tone.

 

And I've always loved his vibrato. "Working Man", "Anthem", "Something For Nothing", and many other tunes show his vibrato. Sounds great to me. The reason it might sound a little sloppy and "dreadful" nowadays is because he's using the Floyd a ton. I watched the Live In Cleaveland video, and he had his hand on the bar pretty much at all times when he was using his signature LPs.

 

It's completely fine if one doesn't like Rush (after all, music is subjective, right?), but you still gotta give them respect. A lot of bands that get too much of it don't deserve it. Rush is one of the hardest working bands of the 20th century. They didn't listen to their record company and the critics. They chose to play the music that they wanted to play. That alone deserves respect IMHO.

Just plussed you kaleb. Too bad we can't get together and jam all of the RUSH songs we know and maybe teach each other thing's that the other doesn't know.