Detuning strings

[Glorbon]

Ok well this is acually a basic question, i detune and retune my guitar ALOT.. I mean maybe two times a day atleast.. So know when i have been using the same medium strings for about 2 months, they feel very "loose". And the guitar is buzzing on almost every string when capoed on the second fret or above (the buzzing gets worse the higher the capoe gets).

So i'm wondering if the strings do get looser when being detuned and then retuned?

[Thermionik]

.

.

 

Basic laws of physics say to give a certain pitch, a string of this diameter must have that tension, so no, when they are tuned to (say) concert pitch, the tension has to be the same as the previous time they were tuned to concert pitch. But what do physicists know.....

[Rambler]

Strings break down with use, which, I suppose, includes, to an extent, winding up and down. But may not be as important as corossion.

[LesLawrence]

.

.

 

Basic laws of physics say to give a certain pitch' date=' a string of [i']this[/i] diameter must have that tension, so no, when they are tuned to (say) concert pitch, the tension has to be the same as the previous time they were tuned to concert pitch. But what do physicists know.....

 

Why do you assume that the string stays the same diameter. Don't they stretch with use and the diameter gets thinner.

 

Cheers,

Les

[albertjohn]

Could this be something to do with movement of the neck. If tensions are repeatedly reduced and increased, is it possible the neck profile will not return exactly to its previous position each time and thus cause the buzzing?

 

I was always told to allow new strings (and the neck) to settle down before considering any truss rod tweaking.

[Glorbon]

alright thanks for your answers.. Well i love my J-45 but there is really some big problem with my neck.. Ever since i bought it i have had to struggle with it..

 

The guitar came with medium strings so i played them til' they got old and replaced them for some light gauge strings.. No suddenly every string started to buzz..

 

So i went to a luthier who adjusted the trust rodd.. So my light-gauge strings got a really bad level by being to high over the fretboard.. But they still kinda buzzed :S.

 

So i changed the strings to Medium again and voila the buzzing was gone.. til' know.. The buzzing is back and as i said before it's buzzing more the higher i get on the fretboard..

 

This is strange because the level i quite high since the trussrod got adjusted..

 

So i don't really know what to do :S

[Thermionik]

LesLawrence asked why I assumed that the string stayed the same diameter. Well:-

 

When you stretch a wire and then release it again, you put energy in and then take energy out. This is called the elastic strain energy. Effectively we recover all the energy (really a small ammount is lost as heat - sometimes called the hysteresis of the wire.

 

We have strings such that the typical stresses induced by fitting and playing are within the linear stress:strain region of the strings behaviour under tension - it is elastic and returns to the same state after tension as before tension. The expression is 'all deformation is recoverable'.

 

Stretch it a little too far and you reach the elastic limit, beyond which the string approaches the yield point and plastic deformation begins (the wire thins and lengthens), much more and it actually breaks. This thinning is usually called necking, and is NOT reversible, once it goes, it is gone.

 

Under the sort of tension with which guitar strings are used, plastic deformation does NOT occurr (and would be very undesirable - they would stretch out of tune and stay that way after one pluck). The diameter remains the same, or at the very most, with corrosion and wear, reduces so very slightly as to have no effect on the pitch.

 

Four things affect the frequency of a string in tension.

Length - longer = lower

Diameter - larger = lower

Density - denser = lower

Tension - slacker = lower

 

If we accept the hypothesis put foward by LesLawrence that strings stretch thinner over time/use, then indeed the same pitch tuned would require less tension, and make for sloppier strings. In practice, any string stretched sufficiently to have its diameter reduced would have been deformed beyond the point where it could be tensioned sufficiently to give a musical pitch without breaking.

 

Glorbon suggested he 'detuned and retuned' a lot - I think in fact he may be removing the strings entirely and replacing them with different gauges. A very different problem.....

Original 'medium' strings played to death, replaced with light strings which buzzed (as you would predict)

Luthier adjusted truss-rod to compensate (ouch - and action now too high)

Replaced strings with 'medium' again (now buzzing all over the place)

 

Glorbon mate - only suggestion from me is take it to a luthier - NOT the one that did the truss-rod last time, please, but a reputable one. Let us know what happens.....

[TWilson]

If the guitar was set up for mediums and you put lights on, would it be possible for the light gauge strings to now be seated too low in the nut?

[jefleppard]

thanks for the lesson, n!k. very informative. tw's suggestion is true (although his avatar is quite unsettling) as lighter put less tension on the neck therefore the strings rest closer to it.

[nodehopper]

Something to look at ...just in case. If you say your strings are already very high above the fret board, yet there is buzzing.....Are you sure the buzzing is coming from the strings actually hitting the fret board?

 

Verify that everything is tight on the guitar.... i.e. be sure the nuts on the tuner posts are tight and not loose and vibrating. Another thing to look at is that when you installed new strings, verify that the ball end is tight up against the bridge plate inside the body. I learned this one from experience and spending hours trying to figure out a buzzing. I finally used a small dental mirror and a flashlight and looked inside and found one string that had the ball end hanging down loose and buzzing as the guitar vibrated. I slacked the string, pulled the bridge pin, tightened it up against the bridge plate and buzz was gone.

 

Just a thought to eliminate those types of causes before getting drastic in your remedies.

[LesLawrence]

Thanks for the explanation Nik.

 

Nik:Stretch it a little too far and you reach the elastic limit, beyond which the string approaches the yield point and plastic deformation begins (the wire thins and lengthens)...

 

LL: Then why is it that a rubber band when stretched gets thinner while still in its elastic deformation region?

 

Cheers,

Les

[Thermionik]

Because it is rubber, or a synthetic polymer, and has an intrinsically long-chain molecular structure which gives it considerable elasticity..... you can pull it a really long way before you allign the molecules along the stretch and start to tear them apart as you get to that elastic limit. Also it is quite wide/fat in relation to it's length (imagine a guitar 'string' of the same proportions as an elastic band.....) and has to maintain the same volume (roughly) as it elongates.

 

Steel, nickel, chrome etc are intrinsically crystaline in structure and a relatively small elongation will take you to and beyond that elastic limit. The molecules will realign slightly and then ruptures will occurr before you have elongated it much at all.

 

Bubblegum is extreme elastic.

Ice is extreme crystal.

Imagine stretching them.....

[ksdaddy]

My piano was last tuned in 1965. I brought it close shortly after I bought it but tried giving it the final tweak last weekend and broke one.

 

Dang.

 

I bought a length of 0.036 piano wire off ebay and will change it when it comes. It's not much more difficult than removing tonsils through the rectum I suppose.

[fortyearspickn]

What NodeHopper said - don't be like me and go fixin something that aint broke. Like replacing the starter when it's your battery that's dead. Prove to yourself it's the STRING itself, and not a vibration somewhere else sympathetic to... G'luck.