Rabs Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 ^^ Here's another song to add to the list...Knocking at the backside of your guitar. Yeah thats probably pushing it a bit :P :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Sooooo... Been waiting all this week for my new router bit which is still yet to arrive.. I have complained but got no response yet (sometimes the issue with Amazon).. Anyway.. so this week I have just been getting the neck down to spec.. I havent started on the back of the neck yet cos I want the flat surface when I come to do the ever painful trussrod channel... :) But as soon as I get the bit (hopefully tomorrow) then I can get the trussrod in then I will really go at it. So just so you can see heres what I started with to this to this And this week it now looks like this (it may look slow but im sanding most of this down to size as a jig saw isnt accurate enough and ive already had to correct a few boo boos, any more and I must start again as im now within a point of a mm to the size I want)... Hows my neck tennon looking ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PingPongBob Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Looking nice Rabs. Been following this from the start. Enjoying every update! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Looking nice Rabs. Been following this from the start. Enjoying every update! Cheers man :) And yeah even people who have the proper tools take their time over this bit.. BUT this is one of the most important bits I gotta get right in order for it to play well.. Im really hoping my new bit turns up tomorrow. That should really shift things up a gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 That's looking really good Rabs the only thing I see that you might want to be careful with is the headstock grain on the lower side, make sure your careful when you drill the headstock. Having heavy grain across the corner like it is on the lower side of the photo can get pretty weak depending how the grain runs if it runs straight through it's sure easy to chip off the corners at the grain lines. Over all though still looking great and is starting to look like a guitar now and that's when it starts getting exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 That's looking really good Rabs the only thing I see that you might want to be careful with is the headstock grain on the lower side, make sure your careful when you drill the headstock. Having heavy grain across the corner like it is on the lower side of the photo can get pretty weak depending how the grain runs if it runs straight through it's sure easy to chip off the corners at the grain lines. Over all though still looking great and is starting to look like a guitar now and that's when it starts getting exciting. Thanks man :) And yes.. its one of those things ive been wondering about and one of the many decisions to make when designing.. Which is do I use a headstock vaneer? That grain is good looking which is one of the features of the guitar.. its gonna have a translucent finish so the grain wil show... BUT I think that one of the points of a vaneer is that it protects.. and as we know the headstock has a lot of tension on it.. So for now im just going to see how it goes... I think if I can get away with it I will just leave it as is.. So many things can still go wrong though which is why as ive said many times now.. im taking it slow and testing each step on scrap wood so I know exactly whats going to happen. For now I just need that bloody router bit.. I got an email from the seller today who said they have to officially wait 14 days before we can claim a refund or anything like that if it doesnt turn up :o how annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Right.. well after a frustrating few weeks waiting for this bloody router bit to turn up.. Its all gone a bit pear shaped.. Without getting too boring, the bit I want is considered quite specialised and theres about two places I could find in several days of searching the net that even had them.. I even contacted manufacturers to find out.. And the one I want will cost about £30+,which I just cant afford at the moment. The one I ordered off the net was obviously wrong.. Heres the bits.. The left one is a 1/4" straight bit which I used to cut the template (and is the exact size I need the hole to be) the one on the right is a 1/2" bit and has a bearing on top (that allows you to follow a template).. I can actually use it for other routing I have to do.. So.. no template cutter for me.. So now im just gonna have to improvise something.. What I have in mind is to make a makeshift jig that will keep the router straight so it wont be able to move left and right.. Sorta like this Im gonna do this tomorrow.. So wish me luck as if I get this wrong its by by till I source some new wood, then I gotta make a new neck.. Meanwhile ive been doing a few other bits so that when I get this neck done I can move really quick on the next few steps.. Firstly I now have sorted out what wood and how im going to arrange it for the body cap.. which will look like this AND I have also cut the fretboard out which looks like this there is however another problem I now have to work out a way to fix.. If you look at the below picture you will see that its quite a thick bit of wood.. about 9mm.. Most fretboards are more like 4mm :unsure: SO I now have to find a way to plane it down to size.. and I think ive worked it out.. Using the router (that has a depth lock) I should be able to cut that down a bit.. Never tried that before so hopefully it will work. So tomorrow is a big day.. Im not gonna wait any more or pay £30 odd for a bit... So im gonna go for it.. fingers crossed :) Hopefully good news tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis G Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Good on ya Mate! Here's hoping for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Good luck Rabs,, I'm pulling for ya dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Good luck cutting that neck if your unsure just cut your dado for the truss rod undersized then you can straighten the channel and cut it to final size with a good sharp wood chisel that is what I typically do if I don't have access to a table saw and a dado blade. There are several ways to strengthen the headstock if needed as you said you can put a veneer on but if you don't want to cover the grain you can also put a veneer on the back for strength or you can even drill lengthwise through the headstock and dowel it is needed, Ive done that on cracked and broken headstocks but theres no reason you couldn't do it on a new one also just drill and fill with a tight fit hardwood dowel then when everything is drilled you won't have to worry about cracks along the grain lines. As for your fretboard you need to get some kind of hardwood with fine grain like ebony or rosewood etc. fretboards take a real beating and so most wood just grove away under the strings and it becomes a freaking nightmare to install and keep frets installed. the fretboard is critical it has to be tight flat and sanded to a proper radius if your planning that you are gonna play the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Good luck cutting that neck if your unsure just cut your dado for the truss rod undersized then you can straighten the channel and cut it to final size with a good sharp wood chisel that is what I typically do if I don't have access to a table saw and a dado blade. There are several ways to strengthen the headstock if needed as you said you can put a veneer on but if you don't want to cover the grain you can also put a veneer on the back for strength or you can even drill lengthwise through the headstock and dowel it is needed, Ive done that on cracked and broken headstocks but theres no reason you couldn't do it on a new one also just drill and fill with a tight fit hardwood dowel then when everything is drilled you won't have to worry about cracks along the grain lines. As for your fretboard you need to get some kind of hardwood with fine grain like ebony or rosewood etc. fretboards take a real beating and so most wood just grove away under the strings and it becomes a freaking nightmare to install and keep frets installed. the fretboard is critical it has to be tight flat and sanded to a proper radius if your planning that you are gonna play the guitar. Hello, yes we have discussed the chisel thing before... Its one thing about this wood i will say, it doesnt like chisels very much and tends to chip sna splinter.. So I think thats out. I will also say that this wood is really hard.. I know most people think all pine is soft, but there are hard varieties which I believe I have.. And yes I have a radius sandblock for the fretboard so thats not an issue (12"). Will be at this in an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 OMG wow I did it the rock gods must have been watching over me ;) and its snug enough for me to turn over and it stays in perfecto I AM CHUFFED The end bit where the nut is, is a tad messy, but just a tad. The nut is like .2 of a mm bigger so I had to rough that out a bit with a drill bit and make sure its flat on the headstock. NICE.. so now I have to put a shim over the top of it to really hold it firm in place.. Then the fretboard.. Then I will finish the neck profile and THEN it gets stuck to the body. Hopefully more tomorrow :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Wow execellent... Starting to take shape! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Wow execellent... Starting to take shape! Cheers man... I was sweating when I was aboout to do it lol... but am chuffed.. cant wait to get the next bits done and get that thing on the body quite exciting now I got this bit out the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Rabs last comment I'll make about the wood - I understand you researched pine and think yours is hard pine but your working really hard here and you deserve to have it come out amazing. Pine is not a hardwood ever even hard pine is still softwood. When you search Pine and it talks about hard Pine that does exist but it's only hard compared to other Pine. Hardwood Pine is a fairly new term from the wood floor industry and it differentiates the soft scrub Pines like Pinion and other fast growing softwood Pines mostly in the USA from more dense hard bristled and hard needle pines and as such it is classified as hardwood Pine. The Pine is hardwood for the Pine family but it's nothing like ebony or a tight rosewood etc. The hardwood Pines were identified as suitable mostly for wood flooring and furniture underlayment that was often then laminated with cherry or other dress woods. Hard pine is most known mostly for it's uneven wild grain and color differentiation and that's a great feature for a wood floor not so great for a fingerboard or fretboard. If you really are determined to use Pine then look at Maple boards and see how they are sealed in heavy lacquer over and over and sanded down to strengthen the wood and close all open woodgrain. If you don't, then splitting and heavy wear will happen amazingly fast on a soft wood like this. Pine is a very popular fretboard material on dulcimers and othe fretted instruments where the frets are for a visual indication only not a force multiplier, like they are on a guitar. The reason a chisel doesn't work is because the wood is too soft to cut cleanly so it splits out. You'll get that same type of splitting on frets unless you choose a harder wood or really seal the board before a fretsaw touches it and especially before frets are driven into the wood grooves. If you were working on a true hardwood like Cocobola or Ebony your router would have burned through from friction almost as much as it cut. You don't get sawdust from these woods you get a fine airborne dust when your cutting true hardwoods. OK that's enough wood lecture so take it for the two cent's it's worth and have fun. You can make guitars out of softwoods research the Taylor Pallet series or other pine guitars but it's not easy and not even there experts built fretboards out of the soft woods. I know Ive done three two from old whiskey barrels and one from a antique butcher block from the 1800's and out of the close to 30 guitars Ive built those were by far the hardest to finish. Again please don't see this as negative, I'm enjoying the build and not trying to rain on your parade at all just sharing a few very hard learned lessons. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 ..."oh, WTF! Why are men so damn handy all the time? Got ants in their pants!" Too perfect. You cracked me up, Izzy. I think my wife would concur completely with this. I am totally guilty of constantly needing a project (or three). As for this particular project... Rabs, way to go, man! I just read the whole thread and I did not think it would be going this well. Keep it up... I'm pumped... errrrr... I mean chuffed for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Rabs last comment I'll make about the wood - I understand you researched pine and think yours is hard pine but your working really hard here and you deserve to have it come out amazing. Pine is not a hardwood ever even hard pine is still softwood. When you search Pine and it talks about hard Pine that does exist but it's only hard compared to other Pine. Hardwood Pine is a fairly new term from the wood floor industry and it differentiates the soft scrub Pines like Pinion and other fast growing softwood Pines mostly in the USA from more dense hard bristled and hard needle pines and as such it is classified as hardwood Pine. The Pine is hardwood for the Pine family but it's nothing like ebony or a tight rosewood etc. The hardwood Pines were identified as suitable mostly for wood flooring and furniture underlayment that was often then laminated with cherry or other dress woods. Hard pine is most known mostly for it's uneven wild grain and color differentiation and that's a great feature for a wood floor not so great for a fingerboard or fretboard. If you really are determined to use Pine then look at Maple boards and see how they are sealed in heavy lacquer over and over and sanded down to strengthen the wood and close all open woodgrain. If you don't, then splitting and heavy wear will happen amazingly fast on a soft wood like this. Pine is a very popular fretboard material on dulcimers and othe fretted instruments where the frets are for a visual indication only not a force multiplier, like they are on a guitar. The reason a chisel doesn't work is because the wood is too soft to cut cleanly so it splits out. You'll get that same type of splitting on frets unless you choose a harder wood or really seal the board before a fretsaw touches it and especially before frets are driven into the wood grooves. If you were working on a true hardwood like Cocobola or Ebony your router would have burned through from friction almost as much as it cut. You don't get sawdust from these woods you get a fine airborne dust when your cutting true hardwoods. OK that's enough wood lecture so take it for the two cent's it's worth and have fun. You can make guitars out of softwoods research the Taylor Pallet series or other pine guitars but it's not easy and not even there experts built fretboards out of the soft woods. I know Ive done three two from old whiskey barrels and one from a antique butcher block from the 1800's and out of the close to 30 guitars Ive built those were by far the hardest to finish. Again please don't see this as negative, I'm enjoying the build and not trying to rain on your parade at all just sharing a few very hard learned lessons. Good luck Hey man.. No its all good. I appreciate that your trying to help. I never intended to put the fretboard on bear. Indeed pretty much most light coloured wood used for fretboard material has a finish.. Actually its because Fender do that, that I thought it would be ok.. I have a whole bunch of fillers and varnishes and I intended to use something or other to finish it and harden it a bit. I know, more work.. However, I have been worried about the fretboard, as the last thing you want is to have to put a new one of those on a few months after its finished. And now I have actually done much better than I thought, as you say, I think this guitar deserves to have the right materials. In fact I found this guy on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Luthier-tonewood-Guitar-fingerboards-fretboard-in-ebony-rosewood-etc-/281071131673?pt=UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH&var=&hash=item4171251c19 hes got loads of light and dark coloured fretboards and the one im thinking about is that Satos Rosewood on the far left which is only £15 including delivery.. So I may have to hold back until I get that now.. Decisions decisions.. I have already bought the black fret markers and decals for the headstock.. So If at this point I change to a dark wood I will need new bits and bobs and probably have to re-think the whole colour scheme.. Which is one of the reasons I have been so hesitant to change.. But I am keeping my man stubborness in check :) and I want to do the best for the guitar now (It may actually turn out really nice).. Also im kinda willing to experiment a bit as well, thats how new things are discovered.. Im up for doing things my own way.. Hmmm.. We will see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Too perfect. You cracked me up, Izzy. I think my wife would concur completely with this. I am totally guilty of constantly needing a project (or three). As for this particular project... Rabs, way to go, man! I just read the whole thread and I did not think it would be going this well. Keep it up... I'm pumped... errrrr... I mean chuffed for you! Cheers man.. and that makes two of us lol :) As much as im good with my hands (ahhem) I also know that woodwork is a totally different skill that needs experience and as I started this I wasnt even sure I could do it.. I have however done A LOT of research and reading and Youtube watching and now ive done one of the most accurate bits needed I cant see anything else that will stop me now.. I can totally picture each step and exactly what I am going to physically do which I think is the key to doing this.. I am in no rush and will take each step as slowly as I need to, to get it right :) As for why I needed a project.. Unemployment.. If I was working I doubt id have the time of the patience to do this.. But I have got further than I thought so now I WILL finish it whatever happens. I cant wait to get that neck stuck on the body.. That will be a good day :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Sorry about the unemployment, Rabs. But it's super cool that you dove into a creative project whilst you have the free time. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out. You gotta show us how you lay out and insert the frets... that's the part that would scare most. Again, cracking good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slavestate Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 More progress please! I'm stoked for you about this build. You've got some great passion and courage I wish I could dedicate in such a project myself. I was unemployed for over a year and I just found work only after picking a career path I never thought I would have been decent at. You'll get things going again, and in the interim you'll have a great guitar to play very soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 More progress please! I'm stoked for you about this build. You've got some great passion and courage I wish I could dedicate in such a project myself. I was unemployed for over a year and I just found work only after picking a career path I never thought I would have been decent at. You'll get things going again, and in the interim you'll have a great guitar to play very soon! Cheers man.. And yes I know its a bit slow.. But better that than screw it up :) And now another curve ball... It seems that (something ive been worried about)I really shouldnt use the pine as a fretboard.. And I agree.. This will now mean buying one which isnt that bad.. about £15.. but obviously I need to wait for that now.. Im still doing some other bits to prepare for some of the other steps to come.. But I must do it in order.. So the next thing is the radiusing then then the frets then to get fretboard stuck on on.. etc.. I need all that done before I attach to the body.. And actually want the fretboard done before I get to shaping the neck. With that in mind ive done another mock up this time with a Rosewood FB.. (VERY rough mock up :)) Or even better And a sort of mock up using a picture of the actual wood im using for the cap (also VERY rough lol ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Just a quick question, Rabs. Are you putting a pine cap on a pine body? And if so, why? Keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Just a quick question, Rabs. Are you putting a pine cap on a pine body? And if so, why? Keep up the good work. Indeed I am... The reason is to hide routing for the pots, wiring etc and where the neck will join the guitar.. Basically just to make it as clean as possible.. If youve seen my main body slab you will see it has a big hole in it where the pots will go.. At the time I did that I didnt have a router and so I thought it was the only way I was going to get away with it. Nothing to do with tone or anything weird like that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Indeed I am... The reason is to hide routing for the pots, wiring etc and where the neck will join the guitar.. Basically just to make it as clean as possible.. If youve seen my main body slab you will see it has a big hole in it where the pots will go.. At the time I did that I didnt have a router and so I thought it was the only way I was going to get away with it. Nothing to do with tone or anything weird like that :) That makes sense. I'd forgotten about the hole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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