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Torrefaction...what does it add? Snake oil or magic potion?

#21 User is offline   BluesKing777 

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 05:06 PM

View PostE-minor7, on 28 September 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

Bingou - it's the third verse or word-block of Thick as a Brick.

Half a point your way ^ but a big one.

1972 ~



I intended to stooge you, Em7, by saying it was that 'Jethro Tull chap, wasn't it' but I forgot in my excitement of finding the name when I looked it up, err, in Puffin. Technically didn't google!
But may have cheated but I wanted to know the result to stop that buzzing around the old memory stick in my head! [smile]


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#22 User is offline   E-minor7 

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 05:21 PM

View PostBluesKing777, on 28 September 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

I intended to stooge you, Em7, by saying it was that 'Jethro Tull chap, , ,

I'm afraid I'll have to withdraw the half point, BBK - unless you can assure me you actually know the record.

No, thinking twice, I don't cancel the score. It's just reduced to a lower grade of metal. After all you told the truth about Puffin.

Btw. did you know the young Anderson played an Aria.
You just can't keep coincidences down. .
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#23 User is offline   Jinder 

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 09:34 AM

Super interesting thinks, thanks!

I look forward to test driving some more toasted treats.
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#24 User is offline   zombywoof 

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:10 PM

View PostBluesKing777, on 28 September 2017 - 04:27 PM, said:

Well, it would be great if you (ZW) headed out to a music shop this fine day and tried a torrefied top Gibson, Martin, Huss and Dalton, etc, even Yamaha have some...and tell us the honest thoughts on it after. My guess would be that you would say it sounded, felt like a brand new guitar....



We may find out tomorrow. My wife wants to go check out a 1967 Martin D-35 12 at a store about 1 1/2 hours down the road. Personally I have rarely played a Martin D-35 that did not sound like a turd with strings (sorry, the poetic side of me is coming out) so I am not expecting much. The place though is also a Bourgeois dealer among others so I may just be able to get my hands on a terrified top guitar.
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#25 User is offline   BluesKing777 

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:26 PM

View Postzombywoof, on 29 September 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

We may find out tomorrow. My wife wants to go check out a 1967 Martin D-35 12 at a store about 1 1/2 hours down the road. Personally I have rarely played a Martin D-35 that did not sound like a turd with strings (sorry, the poetic side of me is coming out) so I am not expecting much. The place though is also a Bourgeois dealer among others so I may just be able to get my hands on a terrified top guitar.



Oh ZW!

You better wait out in the car while the wife goes in. Who knows what other dangers lie in wait?

And I think Bourgeois make a torrefied everything model - back, sides, top, braces. 'Warning, Warning, Will Robinson' is all I can think of. Their little 0 starts at 5 1/2..... and on (way) up!


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#26 User is offline   theflyingturtle 

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:53 PM

View PostE-minor7, on 27 September 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

Oooooh, we had a lot of talk about this when the wave started - recommend you to look up the pages.
The Board even had a whole squad that converted to fried Birds back then. The discussions flew hot and passionate.

I've tried a handful of these. Birds, a 200, a couple of J-45's and a Martin D-35 (plus more), , , and they all offered what you'ld expect =
Dryness, lightness, fast response, a very lively rather clear, but also slightly more porous voice.

You of course already have checked them in the cans on the Tube - and as an experienced musician thus listener probably got your clues by now.
But you have to go out and feel them face to face - it'll tell you the rest and what you need to know. Eeehh, 'cept one thing, which was up in the previous debates also :

How will it age ?
Will they over-open, will the respective components grow older under different conditions and kind of end up out of sync - and will that have a quality of its own.
Things got pretty deep when they were under the spotlight - the scientists here began to talk about wooden structures and the poets babbled.


Good fun - Exciting theme


Em7, your description of terrified guitars is brilliant. I wish I could have said that.
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#27 User is offline   E-minor7 

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:23 PM

View Posttheflyingturtle, on 29 September 2017 - 06:53 PM, said:

Em7, your description of terrified guitars is brilliant. I wish I could have said that.

Thanks a lot turtle keep flying
You just can't keep coincidences down. .
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#28 User is offline   Jinder 

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 06:28 AM

View Postzombywoof, on 29 September 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

We may find out tomorrow. My wife wants to go check out a 1967 Martin D-35 12 at a store about 1 1/2 hours down the road. Personally I have rarely played a Martin D-35 that did not sound like a turd with strings (sorry, the poetic side of me is coming out) so I am not expecting much. The place though is also a Bourgeois dealer among others so I may just be able to get my hands on a terrified top guitar.


How did the D35-12 test drive turn out, Zomb? Did you get your mitts on anything Torrified?
#######
2015 SJ200 Standard
2015 Custom Shop Advanced Jumbo Maple (Ltd to 65)
2014 Custom Shop J180 Everly (Ltd to 65)
2005 Custom Shop Hummingbird 12 String (Ltd to 12)
1990 Hummingbird (Fullerplast and Paddle neck joint. Yuck...My favourite 6 string ever!)
1967 J45
2014 Epiphone IB '64 Texan
2001 Epiphone EL-00 (early L1 shape model)
2003 Takamine EAN20C
1998 Fender Classic Series '60s RI Telecaster
1998 Fender Strat Plus

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#29 User is offline   OldCowboy 

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:06 AM

View PostJinder, on 01 October 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

How did the D35-12 test drive turn out, Zomb? Did you get your mitts on anything Torrified?

And how does a 12-string turd sound?
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#30 User is offline   j45nick 

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:28 AM

View PostOldCowboy, on 01 October 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

And how does a 12-string turd sound?


Like a six-string turd, only louder and muddier.
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#31 User is offline   62burst 

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:43 AM

View Postj45nick, on 01 October 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

Like a six-string turd, only louder and muddier.

Yeah, ok. That was funny, Old Cowboy- I guess we, and 'Woof, had that one coming. (and I was just going to guess it to sound like crap)

Actually, there is getting to be quite the cottage industry taking '60's 12-string Martins, usually/hopefully with some sort of severe damage to their tops, and converting them to a 6'er. The cost is in the thousands, but it's customized to the player, and a way to make an old brazilian Martin slightly more affordable.

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#32 User is offline   j45nick 

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:50 AM

View Post62burst, on 01 October 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:


Actually, there is getting to be quite the cottage industry taking '60's 12-string Martins, usually/hopefully with some sort of severe damage to their tops, and converting them to a 6'er. The cost is in the thousands, but it's customized to the player, and a way to make an old brazilian Martin slightly more affordable.



That's an interesting proposition, given that the 12-string versions are typically less than half the cost of a comparable D-28 from the same period. That only makes sense if you want to keep it forever, of course, and all you're really saving is the Brazilian back and sides.
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#33 User is offline   zombywoof 

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 12:20 PM

View PostJinder, on 01 October 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

How did the D35-12 test drive turn out, Zomb? Did you get your mitts on anything Torrified?


We are heading over there Tuesday. They do have a couple of Bourgeois with the terrified top. Need to try and compare one to a similar model without the toasted top. I am also wanting to give an early 1990s Martin D-28 with a Morado Rosewood (whatever the heck that is) body and old growth Englemann top they have in. Thing is this guitar has the "P" neck. Translation = skinny butt.
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#34 User is offline   scriv58 

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 01:19 PM

I have been playing my torrefactified j45vintage quite a lot since my last post on this thread, and i must say that it seems to have turned a corner so much for the better- i like it as much now as my 46 sj, with my martin hj-38 running a close third. Having never previously owned a j45 or a toasted top, i cannot say if it for the better, instead just that my j45v example is a fine one.
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#35 User is offline   James Owl Smith 

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 06:25 AM

View PostJinder, on 27 September 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

Hi all,
I'm intrigued by torrefaction...baked wood, basically. I gather the baking advances the curing process and dries the tonewoods, causing the sap in the wood to crystallise in the same way as age does in vintage instruments.

I've not played one of the baked Gibsons, but I recently played a little torrefied Ibanez parlour guitar, modelled after the old Washburns et al from the early 20th century. It was terrific-light, punchy, dry and stacked out with mojo for spooky blues or celtic stuff. Only 300ish too...I was tempted. Having said that, I didn't have a non-torrefied example to compare it with.

So, my question is, what do YOU think/hear/find that it adds? Does anyone have a baked guitar and a similar non-baked example who can get down to the nitty gritty and describe the tonal variations between the two?

I'm really interested to hear your thoughts.

Hello Jinder,
You're intrigued by torrefaction & you're not the only one. Since you're interested to hear different thoughts, i will do my very best to expose my opinion to you. Torrefied models are supposed to give you the sound of a 40 years old instrument regarding the sonics & they would have a special look from a purely visual point of vue as well (please see the torrefied Hummingbird spruce top round the saddle area for instance, just as pictured on the Gibson website). To be perfectly honest with you, i must tell that i'm rather frightened by torrefaction: what would happen to torrefied guitars later? i mean: today in 2018 they sound terrific and why not, but what would happen within ten or twenty years from now in 2028 or 2038? What about cracks on the top for instance and that kind of things? Vintage guitars are fragile aren't they: i'm afraid that the same truism would apply to torrefied ones whatever their sound. This is the reason why i prefer recent models: i'm so happy & feel safe with my 2017 Hummingbird and she's definetely not torrefied, but she sounds terrific to me & that's what matters the most.Hope this helps. Sincerely.
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#36 User is online   Murph 

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 06:59 AM

Nevermind.

I thought it said horrified.

Never scare your top.
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#37 User is offline   E-minor7 

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 07:27 AM

View PostJames Owl Smith, on 11 February 2018 - 06:25 AM, said:

Vintage guitars are fragile aren't they: i'm afraid that the same truism would apply to torrefied ones whatever their sound. This is the reason why i prefer recent models: i'm so happy & feel safe with my 2017 Hummingbird and she's definetely not torrefied, but she sounds terrific to me & that's what matters the most.Hope this helps. Sincerely.

As you probably know we have been discussing this back and forth. Highly intriguing it is.

And yes, vintage guitars are fragile for different reasons, , , but then again they don't explode.
A lot of them survive and make it through the decades only to sound better and better.
Think violins fx - many old fiddles are treasured like royal jewel shrines.
Okay, most are repaired/stabilized/modified on the journey and the same can be said about vintage acoustics.
But treat them nicely and they'll make it Ok. Believe me I know.
Still the many Q's about torrefied tops (and fx braces) hover in front of us.
As mentioned in post #2 the sync between fried and un-fried components is one of them.

Glad you dig your Bird. They are incredible creatures, , , and different. An exciting combo.
Did you choose a Standard ? , , , and how about a few pics.


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#38 User is offline   jvi 

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:05 AM

snake oil for sure- will self destruct in a few years
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#39 User is offline   generaldreedle 

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 09:11 AM

I have an HD28 VTS and I compared it in the store to an HD28, an HD28V, and a D28. The VTS sounded less boomy than the hd28v and clearer than the others and very balanced. That's what I was looking for so I bought it.
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