Epi LP or Gibson LP?

[Aster1]

Okay Epi & Gibby LP owners,

 

After all the Epi/Gibson battle, in one of the removed posts now, my curiosity is out of control. I would truly like to get a detailed & accurate assessment from any that have own/owned/played both and what you have to say for a critique.

 

No bash session on less cost, more costly, this that or da other thing please!! Just a true forum on the sound, playability, build quality, etc. You know, the balls to the walls flat out performance sound differences if you will.

 

I DON'T own a LP and have not played one (I will however). I may be in the market to add one if they will complement my SG, Casino, Rics, Strat, Gretsches, & Tele. So what I'm saying is "What do you think & why?

 

Thanks and we'll see where this goes.

[BobF_]

I own a '57 RI Black Beauty that I bought new 12 years ago.

 

I also own a 2012 Epi LP Std+ PRO that I bought 2 months ago.

 

As a side note, I now also own an Epi Ultra 339 as of last week.

 

I paid $2000 for the B7. I paid $450 for the Epi Std.

 

The Gibson feels better, plays better and looks better than the Epiphone. However, when it comes right down to it, the biggest difference in value TO ME has more to do with what I know about the instruments rather than what I experience with them.

 

You really need to look at the specs and play the guitars. Individuals do vary.

 

If you've never played an LP, then you need to. And also consider that there are smaller steps than what I described above. Gibson LP Studios are damn fine instruments - works of beauty in their own right. I would love to have a wine red/gold Studio w/490-498 pups.

 

Was that bashless enough? :-)

[Aster1]

Yes it was & thanks Bob. I'm just curious about the sound quality difference & playability between the two. I'm presuming that the Epi has the Epi made pups & Gibby made with Gibby pups. We have a dealer in my area but we have parted company after a few guitars and few years ago so that handcuffs me greatly w/o driving 180 miles or so to KC.

 

Anyone else want to chime in on this as it's off to a good start!!

 

Aster

[poopcicle]

I have played both, and enjoyed both but when push came to shove, I went with the Epi 1960'S tribute. Felt,played,looked and sounded great! Theres a long list of pro and cons across the Gibbys ans Epis I played but in the end I thought the Epi Tribute was the closest to my fave Gibby having the Gibby 57 and 57+ pups and most guitar for the money!

[charlie brown]

Gibson, for me! I LOVE Epi's that are real Epi models, as opposed

to Gibson clones, though. Especially, the thin-line semi, and hollow

bodied, versions. I know, they're all "based" on Gibson ES versions,

but, they're still unique enough, that they are their own style/models.

 

There is Nothing "wrong" with Epi "Gibson" clones, and they're excellent

guitars, overall. I just prefer my Les Paul, and SG's to be Gibson's.

And, I've done a LOT of back and forth, prior to purchase, so it's not

just price, I consider. It's everything.

 

Some of you know, that I had a great "Japanese" made Epi '61 SG, with the

"Gibson" headstock, that was made only for the Japanese domestic market.

It was an outstanding guitar, over all. However, there IS a distinct

difference, between it, and both of my Gibson SG's, in terms of weight

(the Japanese was noticeably lighter), and sustain. The Gibby's have

it all! So, I traded my Japanese SG, in on my SG "Original" and have

never regretted it, or even looked back.

 

I've never owned (but tested a LOT of) Epi Les Paul's. Still prefer the

Gibson's, even at their considerable extra cost. Besides, I don't need

ANY more Les Paul's, anyway. LOL

 

CB

[BobF_]

Yes it was & thanks Bob. I'm just curious about the sound quality difference & playability between the two. I'm presuming that the Epi has the Epi made pups & Gibby made with Gibby pups. We have a dealer in my area but we have parted company after a few guitars and few years ago so that handcuffs me greatly w/o driving 180 miles or so to KC.

 

Anyone else want to chime in on this as it's off to a good start!!

 

Aster

 

Yes, the Gibby has what were called '57 PAFs' at the time. The Epi has Epi ProBuckers, which are damn fine pups in their own right, IMO, but different from the pups in my Gibby. They're marketed as Epi Burstbucker Pros.

 

The Gibby FB is Ebony, so it's superior to the Epi's rosewood FB for my taste. However, I prefer the height of the Epi frets, which are lower than the Gibby. OTOH, the frets are better finished, smoother, on the Gibby :-)

 

Bottom line, the Gibby plays, feels, sounds and looks better. Sustain is far superior with the Gibson. Since I already had a nice Gibby, I went with the Epi when I decided to buy another Lester. I obviously bought a Gibson LP first though.

 

If I buy another, it will likely be a Gibson LP Studio. That will prolly be it for LPs. And I was impressed enough with the overall quality of my Epi LP to buy another Epi - my 339. The 339 is a dream - it's getting a lot of attention :-)

[Aster1]

Thanks again all. That's the info that helps me balance my impressions when I get a chance to play both. I guess it will come down to whether or not I like the Les Paul or not first off. The body style seems pretty close to the Duo-Jet Gretsch but I somehow think the Jet may be lighter. And, at least my Jet has single coil pups.

 

I'll see if either one trip my trigger. I guess I just haven't been in total LOVE with my SG as I thought I would. It may be because of the Humbuckers (may just be a SC guy. Then again, maybe I should just save up for a Gibson HBird that I'd really want for my acoustic collection. Dang it, decisions like what guitars to own & what to eat for lunch just sometimes drive me nuts!!!

 

Aster

[charlie brown]

I too, have a Duo-Jet Gretsch. They are similar Looking...but, that's

where the similarity ends! Completely different feel, weight, and tone...

even in the Duo-Jet with Filtertron humbuckers. Totally different sound,

to Gibson Humbuckers. The Gretsch's are rounder, more open sounding...

The Gibson's are "smokey," and mellower, by comparison. And, that has

nothing to do, with how "hot" (or not) they are. If your Duo-Jet is

like mine, with Dynasonic pickups, it's even rounder and more "Tele"

like, still. But, with it's own "Great Gretsch Sound," as well.

 

So, a Les Paul will not be any kind of duplication, in regards to the Gretsch.

They're both Great guitars, and tone monsters, in their own ways, but quite

different in sound, overall.

 

CB

[Ed Zeplin]

I have had three Epi LPs of which I still have one. I also still have an Epi PR6e acoustic and an Epi Accubass. They were fine instruments but lacked something. I found it with my Gibson LP. When i brought it home and plugged it my wife came in from the kitchen to see what I was playing, she heard something special too.

 

Cost aside i know I could have probably gotten a dot, a casino, a G400 and a LP (all used of course, i never buy new guitars or cars) for what I paid but I love this guitar. It looks great, sounds great with the SD Alnico II pickup(think Slash) and feels great. Without a doubt my favourite guitar. I also have a Gibson SG Special and a Gibson faded doublecut with P90s and they do a great job as well. I loved my Epis but these work for me.

 

I really like what CB said about original Epi models and my next Epi will be a Casino, not a Gibson clone. Those 1962 Sheratons with minihums are pretty nice too.

 

I hope everyone enjoys their instruments regardless of brand after all it's about the music. I have no time for people who are so critical or judgemental. If you like it and can afford it then buy it, enjoy it and play the crap out of it.

 

I work hard for my money and will spend it how I choose. My family is taken care of first and if there is a few bucks left over for me to blow, which isn't often, then I will .

 

Z

[lengle1981]

I've had an epi les Paul and thiought it was great, I'm more of an SG man that a les Paul guy. If anyone was deciding between an epi or gibson LP in my opinion there are gibson les Paul's out there like the LPJ model that are more than affordable now and for me that would be my choice but that's just me.

[Ed Zeplin]

I've had an epi les Paul and thiought it was great, I'm more of an SG man that a les Paul guy. If anyone was deciding between an epi or gibson LP in my opinion there are gibson les Paul's out there like the LPJ model that are more than affordable now and for me that would be my choice but that's just me.

 

As well as the LPJ there are several LPs and SGs under a grand. Haven't played any of them but definitely worth a look.

[stein]

I think there's some things about a Gibby that make it the way it is- not just one or 2 things, but the whole deal.

 

For me, I think the first is the sound, the tone as some call it. There ARE lots of differences between individual guitars, that's for sure. And, it has to be realized, that at various times, besides the Norlin era, there are differences as well. But there is still basic qualities to the sound and the potential that Gibby's have always had. I think of it as a certain singing voice, a fatness or fullness, combined with a way the notes sound together played together.

 

Then there is the feel, particularly often the neck. They vary a lot, and some, to me at least, feel better than others, or seem to have "it". To me, it isn't a matter of fat ones or thin ones, and it isn't that a Gibson style of shape is inherently going to feel better to me than a Fender type, but it's more of an overall tendancy to feel like a Gibson, regardless of what it is, and I think that some of the BEST feeling necks happen more often with a Gibby. It's that certain thing that makes it feel like a guitar neck as opposed to carved wood, which is what it is.

 

It's just my opinion, but I think Gibby is building some of the best guitars, with the best qualities, these days. I don't mean "better" from a QC perspective, of how many flaws it may or may not have. Or even how many dogs as opposed to gems. The playing and sound qualities are there, the qualities that have made the best Gibby's in the past. I don't know if they are better or worse yesterday as they will be tommarrow, or 5 years ago or next year. But Gibby guitars today are a lot closer to the golden era's of the 50's and 60's than Norlin was, and closer to the ideal than not.

[Old Rocker 59]

I own a Epiphone Gothic Les paul studio which I love to death but if given the chance I would probably see if I could buy one of those Gibson Les Paul Studio Faded Models. A friend of mine has one in the brown finish which he got a couple of years ago which he bought over to my house when he got it. I tried it out and I thought it was just as good as their overpriced models such as the standard ,etc . I know it's now been discontinued ,but I know I could probably get one on E-Bay or GC's used gear section on their website if I really wanted one that badly.

[Aster1]

Excellent details guys on the "differences & reason" why you like this or that! Very helpful & informative for me and I'm sure others.

 

After I get thru some of this month, and the required April 15th deadline , the hunt will start. It will give me something to look forward to even if I end up deciding on saving up some more and getting the Bird. How can you lose?

 

Aster

[lengle1981]

Excellent details guys on the "differences & reason" why you like this or that! Very helpful & informative for me and I'm sure others.

 

After I get thru some of this month, and the required April 15th deadline , the hunt will start. It will give me something to look forward to even if I end up deciding on saving up some more and getting the Bird. How can you lose?

 

Aster

 

This is the one I was referring to by the way.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LPJG2CH-13

[cdouglas]

I would say you really need to go play a bunch of different LP's and then decide. I decided I wanted a LP and went to GC and played all of the Epi's and Gibson's that were easy to get to (anything less than $1200), and every one felt different.

Some of the neck on both brands I liked and some I hated. Some are heavier than others. Some have "sticky" necks and some don't. I definitely don't get along with 50's style necks. One Gibson studio had an interesting neck that wasn't super slick but not sticky either, not sure what it was coated with.

 

In the end, I got a used Epi LP plustop off of CL with a few mods and I like it very much.

 

-Chris

[Cougar]

Well, fairly recently, and after about a month's research, I got my dad a new Gibson LP Studio. Shortly thereafter I got myself a new Epi Dot and soon after that, a 2010 Epi LP Standard Plustop. I am NOT a connoisseur, but couldn't really tell that much difference in tone between the Gibby and the Epi. Did I mention I am NOT a connoisseur? I didn't really put them to any tone test, either.

 

My dad has played the hell out of his Gibby and loves it. Then he played my Dot, and he really liked that, but it's more from his jazz-swing era - he still has an Epi Zenith acoustic!

 

As far as looks, the Epi LP plustop is freaking gorgeous; the Gibby Studio is, well, kind of blah in comparison. No fancy finish, no binding. Dad pointed out the lack of neck binding was a little rough on his hands - the fret edges could probably be smoothed up a bit. The $300 mint Epi LP plustop is beautifully bound, including the neck. Did I mention it's freaking gorgeous?

 

Of course, a Gibson LP plustop is going to be uber-gorgeous. I'm just not sure if it'd be 10 times more gorgeous.....

 

Here's my Epiphone....

 

 

[UCSF2012]

It's psychology. When something costs more, it must be better. Then, we start brainstorming justifications. It's like an Oreo's cookie and a Wal-Mart cookie. The Keebler one must be better, because it's Keebler, not Wal-Mart.

 

Gibson

Pros: Sound

Resale value

Sometimes Plek'd

Inherent value placed on the Gibson brand, despite problems

 

Cons: Uneven binding where neck meets fingerboard

Uneven binding where plastic binding meets body wood

Cheap woods until you meet the 2.5k price point

Paint overlaps

Body binding is made of plastic. It's supposed to be a strip of maple.

 

Epiphone

Pros: Sound

Premium woods, even at the $400 price point

Nearly perfect workmanship. No uneven binding anywhere

Headstock design looks a bit better than Gibson's

 

Cons: Poor resale value

Frets unpolished, need to vibrato extensively to smooth them out.

Paint overlaps

 

A Gibson and Epiphone will sound the same, if you put the same electronics into them and if they have the same wood combination. Not a hint of a difference. It's just a matter of workmanship put into the guitar. I own 4 Gibsons, and every one of them have more workmanship problems than the Epiphones. Feel the neck where it meets the fingerboard.... you feel the gap? I do, on every single Gibson. When you get a nicer Gibson with the plastic binding around the body, feel the area where the plastic meets the wood. Feel the gap? ...I do. Do the same thing for an Epiphone....feel a gap? ...absolutely not. The biggest downside to an Epiphone is that the frets are unpolished when new. I had to sit there for half an hour vibratoing every string over and over. Now the bends are silky smooth.

 

Personally, I love Epiphone Custom Shop guitars the most. Amazing sound, great build

[milod]

Okay...

 

1. I'm not an LP guy at all. Never owned one of any brand.

..... BUT my baby brother is an LP guy. Note that he's about 5 inches taller than I am and much bigger in the shoulders and arms too. He could pay for about any LP he wanted and ended up with a high end Epi a cupla years ago that he sez is the best playing guitar he's ever had his hands on.

..... Given that he's not as obsessed a picker as I am, he's still been playing over 20 years and I respect his judgment that for him, it's an exceptional player.

 

2. I have a hunch that although my picker brother is 28 years younger than I am, that he and I aren't that nutso into fine shades of "tone" that come from a given guitar and amp combination. A general sound and tone that "works" is it.

..... That means his opinion isn't so much on "tone" but rather how it feels to him.

 

3. HenryJ has himself noted that because Gibson necks are pretty much hand done, that a given picker should try as many as possible. Also there are several variants of LP necks.

 

Aster, my guess is that if you're gonna make a day's drive to and a day's drive from, you may wanna check to see where you can play the most Gibbie/Epis through an amp that's the same as you use. Then you've got a tone idea and a feel idea. Even if you haul your own amp, as you certainly know, it ain't gonna sound the same in a store as at home or gig.

 

Given that some low-end Gibsons and high-end Epis are in the same ball park of price, and Epi quality has improved but there is "something" about a Gibson... I'd say play as many as you can and have a good time while you're doing it and you ain't likely to go wrong regardless.

 

Oh - and if your string choice has different tension than whichever you buy, add another bit of bread to have it set up personally to your preference through talking with the store's setup artist.

 

And... if nothing trips your trigger regardless... sound like a fun weekend or whatever to me. <grin>

 

m

[Resigned]

more than Epi vs Gibson, it's "which" Epi & "which" Gibson, & unfair for gibson fanboys to compare an entry-level Epi to a top priced Gibson.

 

if you're paying $700 the Epiphone will be a better instrument.

[charlie brown]

These comparisons, valid or not, will always go on. Just buy and PLAY whatever turns you on!

Gibby's will always have better resale, than Epi's...unless the Epi's are of the special runs,

that are made here, in the USA. But, Epi's are still awesome guitars, in their own right.

And, as long as Gibson/Epiphone keeps the quality factor up, they always will be.

 

CB

[Trance]

Should you not, also widen the comparison to include other LP brands. I have a chinese Tokai 'Love Rock' LP which I consider to be superior to my similarlyy priced chinese Epi plus top LP. Tone, Tuners and action are all better on the Tokai - Albeit on a sample of just 2. The Tokai, however, is very heavy, a real back breaker. Even my tutor was surprised at how good it is.

[milod]

Trance...

 

A bit of prejudice here, perhaps, but I figure the Gib/Epi more trustworthy as a company than some of the less known brands that have similar guitars. I figure it's kinda a big deal, myself.

 

Can you get a reeeally good buy on a reeeeally good guitar for the money with something else? Yup.

 

But at this point I trust Gib/Epi, Fender, Martin, Taylor and a few others more than others. A variable is if the purchase is from a local dealer one might trust.

 

m

[Trance]

Trance...

 

A bit of prejudice here, perhaps, but I figure the Gib/Epi more trustworthy as a company than some of the less known brands that have similar guitars. I figure it's kinda a big deal, myself.

 

Can you get a reeeally good buy on a reeeeally good guitar for the money with something else? Yup.

 

But at this point I trust Gib/Epi, Fender, Martin, Taylor and a few others more than others. A variable is if the purchase is from a local dealer one might trust.

 

m

 

Milod

 

Understood - although I don't think Tokai are any less reliable/trustworthy - and I was surprised, when reading threads on here, how many posters believe that Gibson quality is questionable - especially on a $ for $ basis.

 

Sometimes these companies seem to hide behind their 'perceived' brand reputation for Quality long after they have been overtaken by their rivals.

 

Guitars seem to be like fashion items - the label ends up more important than the product. I desire a Gibson even though I've never played one !

 

There does remain one very key argument in favour of the big names labels - If you buy a good 2nd hand Gibson and look after it, it isn't much different to money in the bank - you can realise the asset very easily.

[stein]

Man, can I babble (post #12).

 

In my efforts to explain "Gibson-ness", I explained nothing as for the question of Gibby vs Epi.

 

I think price has to come into it. Not because it pertains to how good something actually is, but because it pertains to how much one HAS to pay to get something. How much to build. You can't get a Gibby LP for 300 bucks, for example, because it cost more to make than that.

 

I think a little perspective might be that in a way, these are luxeries, toys. An actual NEED might be if you live in a van, you play for money, and you only have 300 bucks. If that is the case, Epi might be the "professional" choice. What one guy has in his pocket he CAN spend is different for each one of us. But even choice, what one WANTS to spend even if they have it, that is a judgement call for the one spending, not a judgement for or against the one spending.

 

Said all that to say that it isn't a matter of the Gibby being 4 times better when it cost 4 times as much. I don't think it makes sense to judge it that way. There isn't a price point where the Epi becomes as good as or equal to a Gibby, even as they get better and better. And NEITHER does it become possible to build a Gibby for 300 bucks that gets you everything an Epi does at that price.

 

It isn't just two different price points, it's two different products, with DIFFERENT intentions. One will never be what the other is.

 

Here's what I think you get with Epi's in general:

You get a guitar that can be set up to play as good as any. There isn't ANYTHING you can't play on one that you can on another.

You get something that looks good. You don't need the "real deal" nitro to have any color in any look.

Gibby owns the shapes, and as a result, no issues making less expensive ones that can be the same in a lot of ways. So for example, you can get a "Les Paul" shape like a Gibby.

They generally take the same parts, particularly the electronics. So if you like to tweak or mod, you can try 12 different pickups in it as well as anything.

Regarding the above, it will respond to a $1200 made-with-plantnum-diamond-dust pup and get results from it as well as any guitar, or you can do a $5 used pup. No limits on that type of stuff.

If you have some wild idea, like carving or painting stuff into the face, it will take that as well as any guitar, or anything in between.

 

Now really, for a few hundred bucks, how can you get all ^^this^^ in a Gibby? You can't. And there are SOME things you don't have to pay a lot for to have because of the inherent value and price points. You certainly DON'T need the last onces of quality built into it or a guitar that has a lot of effort to build it to achieve these things. Gibby does NOT play in this field of giving you a guitar with a truss rod, frets, adjustable bridges and tuners that work with a shiny poly finish for 300 bucks. (well, they do if you consider Epi IS Gibson).