j45nick Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 This hole cannot be for location placement - if so, my SJ is way off The factory tour coming up in June now carries a bit more interest. I hope you can get a rational answer on this. It basically means you should not buy any Bozeman Gibson without a first-hand inspection, which those of us who normally buy used guitars can't always do. You sort of assume that the builder will put the guitars together properly, but I'm no longer sure that is a reasonable assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Is it possible the plates get some sort of spray treatment, lacquer, hardener or third and therefor are drawn on a line hanging in mid-plant-air. michaeljohnr - Do I see bridgepins in an alternative angle on the upper pic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 michaeljohnr - Do I see bridgepins in an alternative angle on the upper pic ? As I recall, he prefers un-slotted pins, and the original slotted pins were rotated 90 degrees before he got his un-slotted pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Wily, the writing is the name of the part and what model guitar..... I posted pics asking about the same thing. i think it was Hogeye who responded that the hole is a guide for placement ? Mine seems directly center...and WELL away from pin holes. From Nick and Dan's experience though...this looks like it could get messy ! I think Dan's plate is very bad...and if this is comming out of Bozeman like this ( which seems the case )..then I'm with Nick..it's a serious issue. I don't recall posting that the hole is for positioning. I doubt that it is. I know that in the past the ends of the bridge plates were shaped to fit into the of the x brace where they rested. The bridge plate is placed way before the bridge is put on. Then when the bridge is in place they drill the pin holes with a hand drill. It never leaves a clean exit thru the bridge plate and Gibson should just sand the plate clean when the holes are drilled. I have even seen some guitars,think early Advanced Jumbos here, where the pin holes missed the bridge plate completely. The guy knows when the drill misses the plate as the drill sort of falls into the body. This is never an easy fix. I don't want to start a panic here as this problem was fixed years ago. This is a serious issue and Gibson needs to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Oh ok Hogeye... my memory is not that great. Someone posted it was a guide indentation made by the CNC machine..and it made sense at the time. It seems though from the random placement of these 'holes' ( they dont actually go all the way thru the plate ) that this is not the case. from some pics posted..esp' Dans..this IS a serious issue From my learning here... I know you dont want sh!t messing with the bridge plate...on the HB TV the plate is quite large..and the indentation is more than an inch away from the holes...... i am not one to bash Gibson... but I think this is major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Oh ok Hogeye... my memory is not that great. Someone posted it was a guide indentation made by the CNC machine..and it made sense at the time. It seems though from the random placement of these 'holes' ( they dont actually go all the way thru the plate ) that this is not the case. from some pics posted..esp' Dans..this IS a serious issue From my learning here... I know you dont want sh!t messing with the bridge plate...on the HB TV the plate is quite large..and the indentation is more than an inch away from the holes...... i am not one to bash Gibson... but I think this is major. I just talked to a guy at Gibson. The hole is a locating hole used to get the top on the body correctly. If someone makes a mistake and puts a short scale top on a long scale body,or the other way around, then the holes for the bridge pins will be out of their proper position when the bridge is put on.. This would explain the problem. If this is the case then this is not a design problem but a mistake by an employee that used the wrong top. The bridge plate needs to be replaced and it needs to be relocated to adjust for the scale length. End of the problem. It's not as big a problem as it seems. It is a one of a kind mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I just talked to a guy at Gibson. The hole is a locating hole used to get the top on the body correctly. If someone makes a mistake and puts a short scale top on a long scale body,or the other way around, then the holes for the bridge pins will be out of their proper position when the bridge is put on.. This would explain the problem. If this is the case then this is not a design problem but a mistake by an employee that used the wrong top. The bridge plate needs to be replaced and it needs to be relocated to adjust for the scale length. End of the problem. It's not as big a problem as it seems. It is a one of a kind mistake. Hogeye cheers for taking the time to look into this... but I am not following your post. probably be my ignorance of guitar building. Long scale top on short scale body...?.. and vice versa... As previously posted..the bridge plate..and other parts..now have the part number and model of guitar lasered onto them... ( I can see how this may not always be the case..and indeed this issue maybe..and probably is..rare ? ) what ever is going on..Gibson need to sort it out sharpish... forget 2 piece bridges..this is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I just talked to a guy at Gibson. The hole is a locating hole used to get the top on the body correctly. If someone makes a mistake and puts a short scale top on a long scale body,or the other way around, then the holes for the bridge pins will be out of their proper position when the bridge is put on.. This would explain the problem. If this is the case then this is not a design problem but a mistake by an employee that used the wrong top. The bridge plate needs to be replaced and it needs to be relocated to adjust for the scale length. End of the problem. It's not as big a problem as it seems. It is a one of a kind mistake. That's all well and good if you bought a guitar new with a warranty. Not so good if you bought it second hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichG Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Well, I guess I have two guitars with the wrong tops on them. My 2012 AJ and my 2012 SCSJ look like Dan's bridge plate, only the hole is forward of the pin holes. In other words, toward the neck end of the guitar. The placement of that hole is very close to the pin holes. It DOES NOT look like the pic posted by michaeljohn above. Or the one of the J 200. They are much farther away from the pins. Rich G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Well, I guess I have two guitars with the wrong tops on them. My 2012 AJ and my 2012 SCSJ look exactly like Dan's bridge plate, only they aren't broken out like his. The placement of that hole is very close to the pin holes. It DOES NOT look like the pic posted by michaeljohn above. Rich G I've looked more closely at the bridge plate on my SJ, and it is pretty much as Rich G says with his. In my case, there is just a small amount of wood separating the large hole/dent from the pin holes, certainly not enough to make me happy about all this. My L-OO Legend is a bit different. It has a very small bridge plate, and the dent/hole pretty much bisects the edge of the plate, leaving maybe 1/4"+ (7mm or so) between the hole and the bridge pin line. Seriously, it is hard for me to imagine that this makes sense. Certainly less of an issue with the L-OO, but it does not look like it should, particularly given how important the bridge plate is in the long run. "Only a bridge plate replacement" is neither simple nor cheap in my experience. It can be hard to remove one without significant grain tear-out in the underside of the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RusRob Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 "Only a bridge plate replacement" is neither simple nor cheap in my experience. It can be hard to remove one without significant grain tear-out in the underside of the top. I have done 4 bridge plate replacements (and hated every one) and you are correct. It can be done but you do risk tearing some wood off of the soundboard. A better solution for those that bought used guitars with this problem is a tool that Stew Mac has. Its call a Bridge Saver. I bought one the the last bridge plate repair job I had and it works really well. Bridge Saver link . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I agree with Nick and RusRob on this. A bridge-plate replacement is far more labor intensive(expensive) than a bridge replacement. It should not be undertaken by amateurs or the "faint-of-heart".....I am genuinely sorry that so many Bozeman Gibson owners are effected by this modern day guitar making malfunction! Just goes to show...."If it ain't broke-don't fix it".... Long live vintage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I would think that this would be so embarrassing to Gibson that they would fix it even if it wasn't still under warranty??? That Bridge saver tool is ingenious!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I agree with ya OWF....that tool is cool....I would get one if I was doing more than 6 of those repairs a year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RusRob Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Maybe Gibson could invest in one and fill that hole after they locate the soundboard... Seriously, I am sure they have a good reason for doing it that way and someone figured it would not compromise the longevity or sound of their instruments. I was hesitant on buying that since I have only done 4 bridge plate replacements in the last 5 years or so. But hey... I love cool tools!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfbird Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Shouldn't this problem be fair enough reason for a recall-like agreement no matter who the owner? It's an error on the part of manufacturing and no fault of the owner who assumed he/she was buying a professional grade instrument with professional grade workmanship and design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Maybe Gibson could invest in one and fill that hole after they locate the soundboard... Seriously, I am sure they have a good reason for doing it that way and someone figured it would not compromise the longevity or sound of their instruments. I was hesitant on buying that since I have only done 4 bridge plate replacements in the last 5 years or so. But hey... I love cool tools!!!! Rusrob, what does a bridge plate replacement cost in your shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljohnr Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 As I recall, he prefers un-slotted pins, and the original slotted pins were rotated 90 degrees before he got his un-slotted pins. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Rusrob, what does a bridge plate replacement cost in your shop? Robert, in 2010, I paid $180 for a new maple bridge plate, plus $225 for a new Brazilian bridge and bone saddle. Those were not stand-alone jobs, but were priced that way as part of a much larger job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RusRob Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Rusrob, what does a bridge plate replacement cost in your shop? That depends on the size of guitar and the material the bridge plate is made out of. The last replacement I did was on a Martin D-18 with a rosewood bridgeplate. I charged $225 and replaced the Rosewood with Maple. A Dreadnought body is much easier to get your hand and tools in than a 000 or parlor so that effects the cost. The plate material is also a factor in how hard or easy it comes out. Fortunately I have not screwed up a soundboard yet. I am pretty confident in my work but I still sweat like a pig every time I do one. That is why I like the Bridge Saver. The last one I did I only charged half the cost of a replacement. One of the coolest tools I have bought recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 That depends on the size of guitar and the material the bridge plate is made out of. The last replacement I did was on a Martin D-18 with a rosewood bridgeplate. I charged $225 and replaced the Rosewood with Maple. That's a perfectly fair price. In my case, it was replacing one of those mid-60's Gibson plywood plates, as well as plugging the holes on the top from the saddle adjusting mechanism and replacing the bridge and saddle. $400-$450 seems to be the going price for this combination of jobs, but you really want someone who knows what he/she is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 So...what ever happened to the OP's problem??? Did Gibson agree to fix it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 The dealer will look at it when I go to Bozeman in June. They are an authorized Gibson repair shop. Gibson Customer Service responded to my inquiry within one day, and the dealer called. So, we'll see what the verdict is in June, its obvious that something needs to be done. I have confidence. For now this guitar is in its case, with a slack G and D string. Obvious that the bridge needs attention, perhaps even replacement, and the slotted bridge needs a look-see. So the JB has stepped up its role in the rotation, with flying colors I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Good to know Dan, that one is so obvious, it's a no-brainer.....hopefully they can do it while you wait!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Good to know Dan, that one is so obvious, it's a no-brainer.....hopefully they can do it while you wait!!! I will be there for 4 days. Lets just hope I'm not shlepping it to the factory tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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