J-35 Fingerboard Lacquer

[GuitarLight]

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Here are a few pictures. Thanks for the input.

 

http://s1375.photobu...html?sort=3&o=0a

 

The pics you show are very similar to the three Gibsons I owned...a Woody Guthrie model...a J-200 Standard..and an AJ Rosewood. ...yours are a bit worse than mine, but very similar. I wiped them, and oiled then and pampered them..but the shiny marks remained. I suspect it is a sloppy lacquer job, or glue where some of it got sprayed or smeared on the fret board, and was not wiped immediately off, leaving it to both soak in, and dry deeply into the rosewood fret boards.

 

These shiny marks did not come off for me. I played heck out of mine and no new shiny marks appeared where my fingers touched the board. But the shiny spots remained.

 

I also realized that by trying to remove it, I could further damage the rosewood board, by rubbing it hard to get the stuff off...making it even more shiny where I rubbed it.

 

Take it back. Demand better. ....as a side note, I bought the three Gibsons at a local Mom and Pop private 5 star Gibson dealership just like you did. ...they have since gone "out of business". .....My new 2013 Gibson Hummingbird (very nice, and there are few people as picky as me in guitars I will admit.) The Hummingbird was also bought locally ...at my local "Guitar Center." !!! Never been happier with Guitar Center! He who delivers the goods gets the business! And GC delivered the goods...and at a GREAT price too!

[onewilyfool]

I would send it back…..this problem is un-acceptable….please don't think you will never find another good sounding guitar like this…be patient, and get one with no fit and finish problems!

[DRC]

I spoke to a good friend who happens to be a master luthier and the only authorized Martin tech in the area. He's also a Gibson fanatic and has several really nice vintage Gibs. I explained the issue with the J-35 fretboards and he said there should be absolutely no lacquer....or anything on the fretboard. If so, it's simply sloppiness and should have been caught by QC and corrected. He went on to say if there are areas of lacquer or other hardened substance on the fretboard, the best way to remove it is by scraping with a razor blade. Said he's had to use the razor blade method on several 'no-name' guitars and does a good job without messing up the fretboard. So I took his advice and just finished lightly scraping my J-35's fretboard, then going over it with 0000 steel wool and voila!!...all the shiny areas are gone and it's beautiful. Looks fantastic... nice and even and natural. Here are some photos. Still not sure what it was, but can say with certainty that these areas were a hard, dried shiny surface sitting on top of the wood.

 

Before, showing an area of shininess from the lacquer or whatever it is, especially the 7th fret.

 

After, showing the same basic area....hard shiny spots gone, nice and clean. You can see a lot of light on the board, but no shiny spots! Sorry, a bit camera movement from slow shutter speed, but you get the idea.

 

DC

[Hogeye]

The pics you show are very similar to the three Gibsons I owned...a Woody Guthrie model...a J-200 Standard..and an AJ Rosewood. ...yours are a bit worse than mine, but very similar. I wiped them, and oiled then and pampered them..but the shiny marks remained. I suspect it is a sloppy laquer job where some of it got on the fret board and was not wiped immediately off, leaving it to both soak in, and dry deeply into the rosewood fret boards.

 

These shiny marks do NOT come from fretting the neck as suggested above. I played heck out of mine and no new shiny marks appeared where my fingers touched the board. But the shiny spots remained. At the time I assumed the boards were supposed to be lacquered for some reason and that mine had a bad job. I later realized that lacquer is not supposed to be on the fret board....after watching a video of Gibson hand applying the lacquer with a white cotton soaked towel, dabbing the entire body, where it would then be left to cure and later the body polished to a high gloss...and the towel, I realized could easily have grazed and whetted the fret board with swashes of Lacquer while applying the finish to the body.

 

On those guitars where this happened, the fret boards have miscellaneous shiny spots. I also realized that by trying to remove it, I could further damage the rosewood board, by rubbing it hard to get the stuff off...making it even more shiny where I rubbed it.

 

Take it back. Demand better. ....as a side note, I bought the three Gibsons at a local Mom and Pop private 5 star Gibson dealership just like you did. ...they have since gone "out of business". .....My new 2013 Gibson Hummingbird (very nice, and there are few people as picky as me in guitars I will admit.) The Hummingbird was also bought locally ...at my local "Guitar Center." !!! Never been happier with Guitar Center! He who delivers the goods gets the business! And GC delivered the goods...and at a GREAT price too!

 

I can't imagine what the heck you are talking about. Gibson does not apply any lacquer with a white cotton towel. Or any other color cloth for that matter. The nitro is sprayed on in many layers. The fret board is masked and completely covered during this operation. There is no lacquer on the fret board. If you don't know even the basic information on the Gibson build maybe you should rethink giving advice. This post is pitiful.

[DRC]

I later realized that lacquer is not supposed to be on the fret board....after watching a video of Gibson hand applying the lacquer with a white cotton soaked towel, dabbing the entire body, where it would then be left to cure and later the body polished to a high gloss...and the towel, I realized could easily have grazed and whetted the fret board with swashes of Lacquer while applying the finish to the body.

Do you by chance have a link to that video? I'd like to see it.

[GuitarLight]

I can't imagine what the heck you are talking about. Gibson does not apply any lacquer with a white cotton towel. Or any other color cloth for that matter. The nitro is sprayed on in many layers. The fret board is masked and completely covered during this operation. There is no lacquer on the fret board. If you don't know even the basic information on the Gibson build maybe you should rethink giving advice. This post is pitiful.

 

Talk about pitiful? Read your own ignorant post. Lacquer or glue, sprayed, or applied in any other manner....the residue is lacquer, or glue on the fret board, and does not belong there! Please swallow your pill Hogeye!

[Sitedrifter]

OP,

 

What are you seeing is simply poor QC from Gibson which is not uncommon as some may lead you to believe. I am glad you fixed it up yourself and you are happy but for the cost of a Gibson, you should have gotten some $$ off from your dealer or had your dealer do it. In any case, enjoy your new guitar!

[father_of_pearl]

I've seen the same kind of shiny areas on a friend's 2012 Hummingbird TV and SJ200 TV's fretboards, both brand new, right out of the box.

I first thought it was some kind of glue residue.

 

It's not as extended as tdrex's, so he can live with it.

 

By the way, his 2 Gibsons are tone monsters...

[Dotneck]

I can't imagine what the heck you are talking about. Gibson does not apply any lacquer with a white cotton towel. Or any other color cloth for that matter. The nitro is sprayed on in many layers.

 

 

Yes, the lacquer is sprayed. The idea of applying lacquer with a cloth is kind of funny. I'll see if I can dig up any photos of the spray booth from my last visit to the gibson facility in Bozeman.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

here is a video where Ren actuallly gives a tour of the factory and they have got up to he spraying booth (around the 50 second mark)

you can see the fron of the guitar and in this case since the first guitar is a dove the top of the guitar is also covered .

it's amazing how Guitarlight posted that they actually lacquer the boards .

 

 

 

 

 

 

JC

[DRC]

OP,

 

What are you seeing is simply poor QC from Gibson which is not uncommon as some may lead you to believe. I am glad you fixed it up yourself and you are happy but for the cost of a Gibson, you should have gotten some $$ off from your dealer or had your dealer do it. In any case, enjoy your new guitar!

Actually, I'm DRC (not the OP), the one who fixed the fretboard issue on my J-35 and posted the before & after photos. And yes, I got mine at a nice discount, so had no problem taking care of it myself which took all of about 15 minutes. BTW, the discount had nothing to do with the fretboard. Actually, the shiny areas on the fretboard didn't bother me...but does look much better now. The discount was the result of a small finish crack on the top just above the fretboard which isn't all that visible unless it's in the 'right' light. Not a big deal. I've had it for about 6 months and is one of the better guitars I've owned, chosen from three J-35s.

 

DC

[DRC]

here is a video where Ren actuallly gives a tour of the factory and they have got up to he spraying booth (around the 50 second mark)

you can see the fron of the guitar and in this case since the first guitar is a dove the top of the guitar is also covered .

it's amazing how Guitarlight posted that they actually lacquer the boards .

 

JC

Although I don't think Guitarlight is saying Gibson is intentionally lacquering the boards, but rather being careless when performing another process, I'd still like to see the video Guitarlight is referring to. I can't find it anywhere. Sometimes a small ding or scratch will be touched up with a dab or thin layers of lacquer using various methods of application (called drop-filling), then blended in and rubbed out, but I can't imagine #1... there being so many freshly sprayed guitars in the Gibson plant that end up with dings/scratches that require drop-filling, and #2... a finish craftsman being so careless as to get any on the fretboard, and again, on so many guitars. Doesn't make sense.

 

At any rate, the fact remains there IS something leaving a shiny hardened surface on many J-35 and other model fretboards and it would be interesting to find out what it is and how it gets there. I've NEVER seen this on any Martin, Guild, Taylor, or even on my Chinese-made guitars.

 

DC

[Hogeye]

Talk about pitiful? Read your own ignorant post. Sprayed, or applied in any other manner....the residue is LACQUER on the fret board! Please swallow your pill Hogeye!

 

My ignorant post?

 

Boy you really told me off. I defer to your expert opinion. If you say Gibson dabs on lacquer with a towel it must be so. I can also believe that you are such a master that you can tell lacquer from masking tape residue from a series of photos. We are truly grateful for your masterful diagnosis. I look forward to your next informative post.

[Hogeye]

Although I don't think Guitarlight is saying Gibson is intentionally lacquering the boards, but rather being careless when performing another process, I'd still like to see the video Guitarlight is referring to. I can't find it anywhere. Sometimes a small ding or scratch will be touched up with a dab or thin layers of lacquer using various methods of application (called drop-filling), then blended in and rubbed out, but I can't imagine #1... there being so many freshly sprayed guitars in the Gibson plant that end up with dings/scratches that require drop-filling, and #2... a finish craftsman being so careless as to get any on the fretboard, and again, on so many guitars. Doesn't make sense.

 

At any rate, the fact remains there IS something leaving a shiny hardened surface on many J-35 and other model fretboards and it would be interesting to find out what it is and how it gets there. I've NEVER seen this on any Martin, Guild, Taylor, or even on my Chinese-made guitars.

 

DC

Gibson never drop fills. They have a spray booth and any finish problems are taken care of by a spray gun and masterful lacquer finishers. Drop filling is often used by repair shops that don't have a spray booth. It is a great way to handle finish damage. Drop filling never requires the use of a cotton cloth and anyone dabbing on lacquer. It involves the use of a lacquer stick and not a liquid form of lacquer.

 

Don't bother looking for the video. It doesn't exist. It's just another Gibson expert displaying his expertise.

[GuitarLight]

Gibson never drop fills. They have a spray booth and any finish problems are taken care of by a spray gun and masterful lacquer finishers. Drop filling is often used by repair shops that don't have a spray booth. It is a great way to handle finish damage. Drop filling never requires the use of a cotton cloth and anyone dabbing on lacquer. It involves the use of a lacquer stick and not a liquid form of lacquer.

 

Don't bother looking for the video. It doesn't exist. It's just another Gibson expert displaying his expertise.

 

Hogeye please calm down, and JuanCarlos too, you could both have a stroke getting so worked up. I didn't intend for that to happen seriously. Perhaps I am wrong in how the lacquer is applied, or perhaps it is glue...I am not perfect though some in here seem to think I should be...and I also never said Gibson INTENTIONALLY applied lacquer to the fret board. ....A rather wild stretch of the imagination from JuanCarlos on that. By the way...How do you like my new Gibson Hummingbird? I finally removed the Epi Hummingbird picture because of how I was judged for it by the superiors. Both Hummingbirds are good and I love playing both versions for specific things. I'm hoping my new Gibson Hummingbird will show that I don't hate Gibson....but I won't hold my breath...! Have a nice day all.

[DRC]

Come on, guys. This whole direction needs to calm down a bit before it just gets unnecessarily and regretfully ugly. On a more positive note (hopefully), just out of curiosity as to what IS on some fretboards, I called Gibson today and spoke with a customer service rep about it. Naturally he had no idea there was a problem, so I told him I'd be happy to send some photos, which I did. He said he'd make the finish department aware and show them the photos. I've contacted Gibson on a couple other occasions and never heard back, so we'll see. If I don't hear back in a week or so, I'll follow up. One positive thing I will say.... my fretboard now looks perfect after the razor blade/0000 steel wool treatment. Maybe I need to get a job at Gibson in QC. :)

 

DC

[Red 333]

Hogeye,

 

Does Gibson Acoustic glue their frets? I know they used to in the Kalamazoo days (with hide glue), and many luthiers still do it today, but it seems like Gibson has stopped the practice in the facilities that build electric guitars. Anyway, I've had a few drops or streaks on my fretboards and always assumed it was residual glue from the fretting process (though I've never seen anything like the large, whitish patches on the fretboard in the pictures).

 

By the way, drop filling is often done with liquid--lacquer, superglue, and even nail polish is used (but as you say, not by Gibson), depending on the original finish of the guitar. The liquid is dropped into a nick and allowed to build up into a mushroom cap shape over the guitar's surface. Once dried, it is wet-sanded to the level of the surface.

 

Superglue has another use related to this thread: it is also often wicked into fret slots after the frets have been hammered in (sometimes before), to prevent the frets from moving. Some think it also improves tone, by filling otherwise imperceptible small air gaps in the fret slots and making a more complete and positive contact between the board and the fret.

 

Red 333

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Hogeye please calm down, and JuanCarlos too, you could both have a stroke getting so worked up. I didn't intend for that to happen seriously. Perhaps I am wrong in how the lacquer is applied...I am not perfect though many seem to think I should be...and I also never said Gibson INTENTIONALLY applied lacquer to the fret board. ....A rather wild stretch of the imagination from JuanCarlos on that. Please forgive me for living. By the way...How do you like my new Gibson Hummingbird? I finally removed the Epi Hummingbird picture because of how I was judged for it by the superiors. I'm hoping my new Gibson Hummingbird will show you that I don't hate Gibson....but I won't hold my breath...! Have a nice day all.

GL ,

 

Hey man I'm sorry I made you feel like I was lashing out

People who know me know that I am not a basher and in all my years on the forum

I have tried to be polite to everyone.I said I was amazed about your comment.

I intended no disrespect to you and I am glad you found a nice clean hbird !

 

 

peace

 

 

 

 

JC

[onewilyfool]

Come on, guys. This whole direction needs to calm down a bit before it just gets unnecessarily and regretfully ugly. On a more positive note (hopefully), just out of curiosity as to what IS on some fretboards, I called Gibson today and spoke with a customer service rep about it. Naturally he had no idea there was a problem, so I told him I'd be happy to send some photos, which I did. He said he'd make the finish department aware and show them the photos. I've contacted Gibson on a couple other occasions and never heard back, so we'll see. If I don't hear back in a week or so, I'll follow up. One positive thing I will say.... my fretboard now looks perfect after the razor blade/0000 steel wool treatment. Maybe I need to get a job at Gibson in QC. :)

 

DC

DC….the problem is that YOU shouldn't have to clean up the mistakes of others. Who knows, maybe it happened at the dealer? Someone spilled a coke on the fretboard while prepping it…….lol…..whatever, again, even though there are a lot of folks who advise just to clean up these mistakes by yourself, you really shouldn't have to do that. How it got past final inspection at the factory or at the dealer is beyond me?????

[GuitarLight]

GL ,

 

Hey man I'm sorry I made you feel like I was lashing out

People who know me know that I am not a basher and in all my years on the forum

I have tried to be polite to everyone.I said I was amazed about your comment.

I intended no disrespect to you and I am glad you found a nice clean hbird !

 

 

peace

 

 

 

 

JC

JuanCarlosVejar....Thanks for your response. No problem. I appreciate your words. No hard feelings dude! Your cool! And thanks for your videos on spraying lacquer and your kind hbird comment! Your definitely one of the more polite people in here!...GL

[DRC]

DC….the problem is that YOU shouldn't have to clean up the mistakes of others. Who knows, maybe it happened at the dealer? Someone spilled a coke on the fretboard while prepping it…….lol…..whatever, again, even though there are a lot of folks who advise just to clean up these mistakes by yourself, you really shouldn't have to do that. How it got past final inspection at the factory or at the dealer is beyond me?????

Hey wiley. In all honesty I don't view having to invest 15 minutes cleaning up the fretboard on an otherwise exceptional J-35 as a problem. Personally, as long as an aesthetic issue like this isn't anything major, I'm just thankful I have the ability to easily fix it quickly, move on and enjoy it. No, the fretboards shouldn't be passing QC like this and left for owners to either deal with or fix themselves. The PROBLEM...and I agree with you...seems to lie within Gibson QC. I've never been to the Gibson acoustic shop, but I've heard that it's a relatively small operation and in view of the exploding popularity of the new J series, perhaps they're overextended keeping up production with the various models and things are slipping through. Not defending a lack of QC, just presenting a possibility. All we can do as customers is make them aware of these issues and hope something is done. There's strength in numbers and I encourage those who have experienced this fretboard issue to contact Gibson and let them know. If you have photos, send them to Daryl at service@gibson.com.

 

DC

[fortyearspickn]

Seems like every time someone gets a Gibson with cosmetic questions, they find this site and then the usual suspects jump in to bash Gibson's QC. I wonder if you buy a new Chevy and the paint job has dings in it, do you:A). Go to the user website to find out what you should doB). Call General Motors and ask them for a new carC) Go back to the dealer and ask him to fix it?

Normal processes, accepted business practices for years, are simple. Dealers /retailers accept a finished good from a manufacturer after performing their own QC level of inspection. They reject the item if it is flawed! If accepted, it is assumed any subsequent defects were caused by the retailer unless the retailer can prove to the manufacturer that is a manufacturing defect.The dealers, in effect, audit the effectiveness of the manufacturer's QC department, based on their expertise and the volume of products they purchase for resale to less experienced consumers. QC departments track returns from dealers to correct any pattern of defect. I doubt Gibson QC audits this forum, given comments like " they apply the lacquer with a towel".On a personal note, I acquired a brand spanking new J45 Ltd. Custom Koa J45 seven days ago. It is flawless.At first, though, I was concerned with shiny colored spots on the frets. On the 3rd, 5th, 7th....

 

[GuitarLight]

Seems like every time someone gets a Gibson with cosmetic questions, they find this site and then the usual suspects jump in to bash Gibson's QC. I wonder if you buy a new Chevy and the paint job has dings in it, do you:A). Go to the user website to find out what you should doB). Call General Motors and ask them for a new carC) Go back to the dealer and ask him to fix it?

Normal processes, accepted business practices for years, are simple. Dealers /retailers accept a finished good from a manufacturer after performing their own QC level of inspection. They reject the item if it is flawed! If accepted, it is assumed any subsequent defects were caused by the retailer unless the retailer can prove to the manufacturer that is a manufacturing defect.The dealers, in effect, audit the effectiveness of the manufacturer's QC department, based on their expertise and the volume of products they purchase for resale to less experienced consumers. QC departments track returns from dealers to correct any pattern of defect. I doubt Gibson QC audits this forum, given comments like " they apply the lacquer with a towel".On a personal note, I acquired a brand spanking new J45 Ltd. Custom Koa J45 seven days ago. It is flawless.At first, though, I was concerned with shiny colored spots on the frets. On the 3rd, 5th, 7th....

 

This is a Gibson site...where else would you have them post their inquiries? In the Martin or Taylor forum? Seems to me like every time someone finds a cosmetic problem in a Gibson, the usual dreamers pretend those problems don't exist.

[DRC]

I just received a response from Gibson regarding the fretboard photos I sent. Can't wait to hear your comments :)

 

Hello Denny,

 

Thanks for contacting Gibson Customer Service. Gibson Montana thinks what you are seeing may be a little residue from the adhesive used to install the inlays. They indicate it would cause no problem and could easily be removed by using extra fine steel wool in the direction of the woodgrain.

 

 

 

Gibson Customer Service

1-800-4GIBSON

service@gibson.com

[Hogeye]

Hogeye,

 

Does Gibson Acoustic glue their frets? I know they used to in the Kalamazoo days (with hide glue), and many luthiers still do it today, but it seems like Gibson has stopped the practice in the facilities that build electric guitars. Anyway, I've had a few drops or streaks on my fretboards and always assumed it was residual glue from the fretting process (though I've never seen anything like the large, whitish patches on the fretboard in the pictures).

 

By the way, drop filling is often done with liquid--lacquer, superglue, and even nail polish is used (but as you say, not by Gibson), depending on the original finish of the guitar. The liquid is dropped into a nick and allowed to build up into a mushroom cap shape over the guitar's surface. Once dried, it is wet-sanded to the level of the surface.

 

Superglue has another use related to this thread: it is also often wicked into fret slots after the frets have been hammered in (sometimes before), to prevent the frets from moving. Some think it also improves tone, by filling otherwise imperceptible small air gaps in the fret slots and making a more complete and positive contact between the board and the fret.

 

Red 333

 

I have drop filled many guitars and always used a lacquer stick. The lacquer stick is heated and the stick turns liquid and drops onto the crack or scratch. I'm sure they have modernized the process as the lacquer stick usually caught fire at some point. Lacquer sticks can be purchased from Stew-Mac as well as hot knifes.

To answer your question...

Yes Gibson does super glue the frets at the time they install them. Just a precaution and a good idea. They press fit the frets into the slots by hand one at a time. Very skilled worker does the hand press.