Tuning half step down questions

[capmaster]

Eb is three flats, D# is four sharps, so they are not the same.

...

rct

D# would be nine sharps, starting the circle of fifths upwards at zero here: C - G - D - A - E - B - F# - C# - G# - D#

 

Notation would use Eb instead of D#. There are no differences in twelve tone equal temperament which is the principle of fretboard design. Both these keys are enharmonic equivalents in this case.

[capmaster]

... If it sounds good and right, it is good and right.

 

rct

CORRECT Rich!

[milod]

I've tended over the years to detune 12-strings down a full pitch - e.g., from the bass "E" down to a "D" etc., but with standard tuning otherwise.

 

The reason has nothing really to do with "tone," nor singing voice since inevitably I then capo the critter up to standard. It's to take it a bit easy on the neck.

 

As for tone... My old Guild s100c SG clone can get a huge warm jazz tone from 8-38 through about any decent amp - to the point most folks might figure I'm playing an archtop. Or it can sound as trebly into the Tele range if you set controls correctly.

 

Plus technique makes a huge difference in tone.

 

Mother Maybelle used the heaviest doggone strings I've ever seen on a guitar - but she was playing standard tuning with a capo and was playing it "flat across the strings" like an autoharp.

 

I could feature some jazz guys considering retuning a half step down and transposing for a lotta stuff that's written in Eb, Ab, Bb and F. But... that's because a lot of written arrangements for a full "band" with wind instruments, etc., use those keys. Instead, I think most just transpose.

 

m

[rct]

D# would be nine sharps, starting the circle of fifths upwards at zero here: C - G - D - A - E - B - F# - C# - G# - D#

 

Notation would use Eb instead of D#. There are no differences in twelve tone equal temperament which is the principle of fretboard design. Both these keys are enharmonic equivalents in this case.

 

I'm humbled! After actually writing out key signatures, I had compared E to Eb for the original post!

 

Thanks for catching me up on my thirty odd year old theory skills!

 

rct

[BobF_]

I've never tried this, but you guys have my interest piqued.

[FirstMeasure]

Humans tend to over think simplicity, music theory is the epitome of tendency.

 

If one plays the 55th key on a properly tuned piano you get a tone of 625.25 hz. That note is a D# and an Eb. If you sing it with your voice, it's 625.25 hz (albeit wavering).

 

That tone of 625.25 hz has existed since the dawn of time, we called it a D#. If we had called it a "Flughenbauld" it would still be 625.25 hz.

 

As far as tuning to Eb for your vocals, I guess that could work. But soon as you play in any key above E that kind of goes right out the window.

 

The way I see it, Music theory is mans attempt to put measure the unmeasurable. Name the unnameable. It's a way of trying to explain what we do with our ears and hearts with ink and paper.

[quapman]

I'm humbled! After actually writing out key signatures, I had compared E to Eb for the original post!

rct

 

 

Well,, I was going to mention that 4 sharps was E but nobody was talkin bout boobies so I had no

real idea how to work it back into the thread.

 

With no point of reference,, I'm completely lost.

[rct]

Well,, I was going to mention that 4 sharps was E but nobody was talkin bout boobies so I had no

real idea how to work it back into the thread.

 

With no point of reference,, I'm completely lost.

 

I'm sorry bro. People just don't know how difficult it can be to gaffle up a thread with some boobs. Takes skill and daring do is all I'm sayin here.

 

rct

[SoundMaster]

Original post deleted by author.

[capmaster]

This topic is totally confusing.

You're right, temperament of note pitches indeed is dearly confusing. Theories and practices over the millennia were multifaceted. They depended on or generated several numbers of notes between a given one and those we call octaves, i. e. half or double the pitch. A different sense of harmonies is also likely to create different sounds and styles, and vice versa.

 

As long as one goes with playing music conceived for keyboards or fretted instruments following the twelve note equal temperament, there's no need for further concerns. However, other than standard tunings including transpositions, open tunings allow for different approaches when using just one fret or a slide.

[RowdyMoon]

Well,, I was going to mention that 4 sharps was E but nobody was talkin bout boobies so I had no

real idea how to work it back into the thread.

 

With no point of reference,, I'm completely lost.

 

 

I hear ya...but rumor has it that if you stare at a rock long enough it will eventually play dead....course, this is just a theory mind you.

[saturn]

I'm not done I guess. It's late and I can't sleep.

 

For the dealio on tuning down, watch Vaughn play the guitar. The guy was just massive strong. By the time we could see him play he was using 13s and pushing them around like they were toys. When he started he prolly used 9s like the rest of us, and as that strength grew, and his physicality got just intense, he probably had all kinds of intonation problems, pushing and pulling and picking as hard as he did would render 9s and 10s worthless by the second set. So he went up, strengthened more, and went up more. And he learned and developed the control it took to beat on that guitar and stay really well intonated all over the neck, he didn't over bend his double stop chain saws, and when he did intentionally overbend it was a thing of sheer terror to see the strength and control he had. Difficult to watch for me, he was overwhelming.

 

 

rct

 

I'm not sure, but I think you just almost, kinda said something nice about SRV....

[dbrian66]

Didn't Iommi tune down 3 half steps. Those srtings must be so slack. Now thats HEAVY.

 

 

I read in an article one time that Iommi tuned down to make it easier to play after he cut his fingers off and the unintentional result was a much heavier sound for Black Sabbath. After that people started tuning down to sound heavier. Dont know if its true but it is believable.

[rct]

I'm not sure, but I think you just almost, kinda said something nice about SRV....

 

I did. I did resent the sudden white blues guy thing when he hit it big, it was after all, just another kid growing up the same time as me, playing strats at stupid(great) volumes making sounds and playing riffs we all wanted to and did as much as we could. He was proof that the first one recorded is the lucky one. Who couldn't sound good playing that way?

 

But he was way more. Intimidating. Up til then, insane strongest guitar player I knew was Betts, I actually tried one of his when I was a kid and Great Southern was out and about and he was very accessible. He had 13s on that white les paul he used mid 70's, half an inch up at the neck joint. It wasn't even playable. But he could lay into Ramlin man and hold them bends just unbelievably, while downing a Bud and buttin his Marlbl with his other hand.

 

Then this Vaughn guy, yeesh. Power. I guess the power of two or three guitar players in there, I still only watch him once in a great while. He's just overwhelming.

 

But I never dug the schtick, and I REALY never dug the copy boyz. I don't do Red House, I can't touch that and I would not ever pretend I could. The blooz jammers murdering that thing should be ashamed of themselves, Super and all.

 

rct

[Hoya]

 

Then this Vaughn guy, yeesh. Power. I guess the power of two or three guitar players in there, I still only watch him once in a great while. He's just overwhelming.

 

rct

Man that is true.