Mixed slants on Les Paul bridge saddles

[stein]

Someone gets it.

I merely provided the information for those who wanted to know the issues of the Les Paul bridges.

 

As for "newbie" yeah playing 41yrs, with engineering background and actually knowing real things, makes you a stupid teenager who does not have a clue.

I did mention the different screw side bridge types in post one, I am very sorry so many have poor reading skills or cannot get past a two line twitter say nothing.

If you think something is incorrect do show it and then step back and realize one of two things, you are agreeing with the same thing said, or you have misunderstood the information/words.

 

By the way kids, the front mount screws (towards) the pickups does not work for me at all. AND once again it does not matter which side the screws are on, EXCEPT, for the matter of access.

 

It simply does not matter across the grand scope of bridge issues on the Les Paul, direction of saddles (if slanted and edge sides), screws on either side of the bridge, or if your stop piece is hard down to the body. Anyway that function indicates it HAS to be is OK for the Les Paul.

 

So information given.

Use it, lose it, misunderstand it or whatever. As Always just trying to add something viable rather than one line insults or not comprehending anything.

From what I can read, you are the one who is not reading and comprehending the post.

 

And also, you are the one who is accusing others here of not having reading skills or comprehending what is being said.

 

What many are trying to say, is you are WRONG about a few things, and they are correcting you. No one has misunderstood you keep saying "it doesn't matter what side the adjustment screws face". It isn't a matter of convenience as you say, it's always been about what type of bridge the guitar has.

 

If there is misunderstanding about your experience or you being a "newbie", it might be the fact that it's obvious you have NOT any experience with an ABR-1 bridge and stop-tailpiece combination. And the bridge saddles that don't have a slant might make some wonder.

 

Really, the thing is you wrote a paper trying to explain things, but what it explains is full of wrong information. It addresses problems that don't exist, attempts to answer questions that aren't asked, and provides solutions that wouldn't work.

[Desmosedici]

..........and the ABR-1 isn't the only thing that has a screw loose

[OLDFART]

There! So why did you make that lots of fuzz?

 

 

Sorry been busy actually messing with some new gear and playing. Do not have the time to sit on this site and argue non points.

Simply not a fuss, or a fuzz, you guys just keep insisting things which I already pointed out.

 

BECAUSE, it simply makes no difference.

(Which way the slanted type saddles face or screw sides, make no difference to function or purpose. Unless of course it does not work, then you can flip them.)

I offered the information simply to pass on relative facts to others who wanted to know or perhaps can accept someone may know something out side the fish bowl.

 

And you chaps have been the ones arguing about screws. Screws to the front, regardless of the bridge make are just more problematic to adjust than to the rear of the guitar, as would be actually be a more normal ergonomic position. Ever seen a Fender face front??? Like I said if you have a LP with a greater neck tilt and your pickup has to be set higher OR you want to install a GK3 guitar synth pickup, you simply cannot have screws on the front side, period.

If your strings are hitting the adjustment screws, then per the first post you have your setup wrong. Strings need to clear the edge of the bridge if the screws are sticking up above the bridge edge, which my eyes are probably not that bad, then what a horrible design flaw and may I say, bad engineering!

 

Same with that chap who refuses to admit his intonation is not right by the simple issue of the stair step pattern which is mathematically just how string thickness and length equates.

Argue it with other guitar tech knowables like Dan Erlwine if you like. Not sure if he is an engineer but perhaps you can insult him for the sake of the your ego and little friends here.

[OLDFART]

..........and the ABR-1 isn't the only thing that has a screw loose

maybe you can seek medical help

I do suggest a remedial reading comprehension brush up as all those points were covered and like most things immediately confused and jumbled.

If you have a ABR front screw, wonderful, if you can reach the adjustments with no issues, wonderful, if you have problems either change the bridge or flip it as it does not matter to the function. That is called a point, if that is "screw loose" then I doubt we agree on much of anything in this world.

If your strings are hitting the screws behind the saddles then you have too much an abrupt bend down to the stop piece which is not desirable nor necessary, neither is the myth and lore one's stop piece has to be screwed hard down to the body, it simply does not, and on some Les Paul's with a greater neck tilt without doing the old "top wrap" method the angle bend is too great abd the strings hit the bridge edge.

If you cannot use the high set bridge screws then perhaps get another bridge, they are relatively low price for any model made.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Good-grief, Penfold.

[capmaster]

Same with that chap who refuses to admit his intonation is not right by the simple issue of the stair step pattern which is mathematically just how string thickness and length equates.

On theory, but reality is in the ear of the listener. Please rework your theory to include the actual mechanical impedances valid for every single string on any possible guitar. I bet making adjustments sonically is myriads times faster.

 

 

Argue it with other guitar tech knowables like Dan Erlwine if you like. Not sure if he is an engineer but perhaps you can insult him for the sake of the your ego and little friends here.

Enjoy your big bunch of friends! I'm also sure Dan Erlewine is glad to have your support.

[BigKahune]

.

Good grief. . Disregard of the errant claims by the OP. . The pics below show the proper installations for the ABR-1 and the Nashville TOMs. They are from the well respected luthier supplier Stewart-MacDonald, from the article Tune-o-matic swap: Going from Nashville to Kalamazoo. The reasons for which way Gibson faces the intonation adjustment screws at the factory are given in my previous posts.

 

"1954: ABR-1 bridge . . The ABR-1 is the original Tune-o-matic, designed by Gibson’s Ted McCarty for their archtop guitars. Its first Les Paul appearance was on the Custom model in 1954. It’s a slim bridge that sits on two posts screwed directly into the maple top of a Les Paul. At their Kalamazoo factory, Gibson used this bridge for over two decades." . . Note the intonation adjustment screws are facing the bridge pickup.

 

"1977: Nashville bridge . . The Nashville Tune-o-matic was introduced after Gibson moved from Kalamazoo to Nashville in the ’70s. It offers a wider range of saddle adjustment than the ABR-1, which is great for intonation. This bridge is a bit larger than the ABR-1, and its support posts screw into metal bushings pressed into the guitar top." . . Note the intonation adjustment screws are facing the stop.

 

 

.

[stein]

 

Simply not a fuss, or a fuzz, you guys just keep insisting things which I already pointed out.

 

 

 

 

No, been insisting on things to CORRECT what you where you have INCORRECTLY pointed out.

[stein]

 

If your strings are hitting the adjustment screws, then per the first post you have your setup wrong. Strings need to clear the edge of the bridge if the screws are sticking up above the bridge edge, which my eyes are probably not that bad, then what a horrible design flaw and may I say, bad engineering!

 

 

Indeed...If the strings are hitting the screws, YOU HAVE THE BRIDGE BACKWARDS!

 

...as designed, the screws face forward.

[stein]

maybe you can seek medical help

I do suggest a remedial reading comprehension brush up as all those points were covered and like most things immediately confused and jumbled.

If you have a ABR front screw, wonderful, if you can reach the adjustments with no issues, wonderful, if you have problems either change the bridge or flip it as it does not matter to the function. That is called a point, if that is "screw loose" then I doubt we agree on much of anything in this world.

If your strings are hitting the screws behind the saddles then you have too much an abrupt bend down to the stop piece which is not desirable nor necessary, neither is the myth and lore one's stop piece has to be screwed hard down to the body, it simply does not, and on some Les Paul's with a greater neck tilt without doing the old "top wrap" method the angle bend is too great abd the strings hit the bridge edge.

If you cannot use the high set bridge screws then perhaps get another bridge, they are relatively low price for any model made.

Again, you do NOT have experience or a handle on the "engineering" of Gibson bridges.

 

If you ever had an ABR-1, and ever tried to flip it OR adjust it, you would know you can't lower the tailpiece hardly at all if you have the bridge backwards.

 

You would also know it isn't hard at all to adjust from the front. NOT a problem to be solved here.

 

And if you had knowledge of Gibson bridges, you would know that Nashville and ABR-1 are NOT interchangeable.

[Eracer_Team]

You would also know it isn't hard at all to adjust from the front. NOT a problem to be solved here.

 

 

Screws on the pickup side do not work for my guitars, period. You cannot mount a synth pickup bracket against those screws.

 

 

he is claiming through that his "special active pickups" are adjusted too high to have the adjuster screws facing the bridge pickup.

 

something doesn't sound right if your active pickup has to be adjusted that high you can't access the adjustment screws.

 

 

 

 

 

[badbluesplayer]

Mr. OLDFART - You have an awfully thin skin for an engineer. You went from trying to figure out how guitars work to being the biggest expert on the Gibson board all in one fell swoop. You posted a bunch of observations and now you're defending them to the death once somebody corrects you. What kind of engineer is that? Engineers are supposed to research how stuff works before they consider themselves a big expert. And they don't get emotionally invested in their hypotheses, period.

 

[Searcy]

he is claiming through that his "special active pickups" are adjusted too high to have the adjuster screws facing the bridge pickup.

 

something doesn't sound right if your active pickup has to be adjusted that high you can't access the adjustment screws.

 

He's talking about mounting a GK3 Roland Synth pickup. Typically you turn the bridge around so the intonation screws face the stop bar allowing the GK3 to sit an 1/4" or so closer to the saddles which is where it likes to live. Although he is being a bit of a d!ck about it.

 

 

[Guest Farnsbarns]

He's talking about mounting a GK3 Roland Synth pickup. Typically you turn the bridge around so the intonation screws face the stop bar allowing the GK3 to sit an 1/4" or so closer to the saddles which is where it likes to live. Although he is being a bit of a d!ck about it.

 

 

 

Thanks for the pic. That's more or less what I imagined when I read his post. I can't imagine why anyone would want to use a guitar to input to a synthesizer but I guess there must be a reason or the product wouldn't exist.

 

If you must use a guitar as your midi controller for a synth (personally I don't know why you wouldn't just use keys) couldn't you attach it to the pup ring instead? I'd have thought it was better than turning an abr1 round and having a backwards bridge with a higher tail piece to clear the screws.

 

Anyway, wasn't he simply saying that any one who wants to can just turn an abr1 round? Wasnt the synth thi g in response to those saying "you can but rhere is a reason its that way round?" I mean you can, but it's backwards and the strings foul the screws. I think the reality here is that the op has never actually been up close with an abr1 and assumed that it had no ill effect to turn it.

 

Seems to have got butthurt by the idea that a number of his assumptions were wrong.

 

Why would you post all this on a Gibson Les Paul forum and then when people inform you that you're wrong say "I did it with my epiphone". I don't go on car forums and tell them they don't need 2 of the wheels and then justify it by saying "my motorcycle only has 2 and it's fine".

[rct]

So is it safe to return to the olden days of intonation being determined by a tuner and not that guys good eye?

 

rct

[capmaster]

So is it safe to return to the olden days of intonation being determined by a tuner and not that guys good eye?

 

rct

No need to return here. I stayed with listening rather than looking anyway. B)

[Searcy]

Thanks for the pic. That's more or less what I imagined when I read his post. I can't imagine why anyone would want to use a guitar to input to a synthesizer but I guess there must be a reason or the product wouldn't exist.

 

If you must use a guitar as your midi controller for a synth (personally I don't know why you wouldn't just use keys) couldn't you attach it to the pup ring instead? I'd have thought it was better than turning an abr1 round and having a backwards bridge with a higher tail piece to clear the screws.

 

Anyway, wasn't he simply saying that any one who wants to can just turn an abr1 round? Wasnt the synth thi g in response to those saying "you can but rhere is a reason its that way round?" I mean you can, but it's backwards and the strings foul the screws. I think the reality here is that the op has never actually been up close with an abr1 and assumed that it had no ill effect to turn it.

 

Seems to have got butthurt by the idea that a number of his assumptions were wrong.

 

Why would you post all this on a Gibson Les Paul forum and then when people inform you that you're wrong say "I did it with my epiphone". I don't go on car forums and tell them they don't need 2 of the wheels and then justify it by saying "my motorcycle only has 2 and it's fine".

 

The reason you would use a guitar as a synth controller seems pretty simple to me. It allows you to control synth sounds without having to learn to play the keyboard. But these days that's not really even the primary use of the GK Roland system. Most of the GK systems these days Focus on emulating stringed instrument sounds.

 

The first time I ever installed a GK pick up on my SG I use the mounting system like the one above. It didn't take me long to figure out that I didn't like it at all primarily because it didn't allow me to adjust the action down as low as I like it. There is another mounting system that is exactly what you describe which is a bridge humbucking pick up ring with the tab at the bottom side to allow you to mount the GK pick up. You can also just screw it to the top of the guitar but I'm sure you can understand why a lot of people wouldn't want to do that.

 

Ultimately I got rid of the GK pick up and installed a ghost 13 and Hexpander system in my SG which does the same thing as the Roland GK3 pick up but in a much more compact and traditional looking package.

 

 

I suspects the OP Doesn't own any Roland gear either.

[OLDFART]

Dude, there is a simple bracket that fits on the bridge posts where the GK-3 mounts, there is no screwing anything into the guitar and and no issue at all with the string height adjust.

My action is lower than factory specs and my hex pickup is setup exact for the best tracking.

 

That bracket as I stated allows for no possible way of having bridge adjustment screws facing the pickup, period. That is also not workable for me as my bridge pickup is in the way of reaching the screws much less I simply do not care for it on that side of the bridge. If I could not flip it around I would just opt for a different bridge piece.

If one has a front facing ABR type and it works for you then have at it. Whatever works for your style and use is all that matters. This was never a post of telling anyone what to do or use.

 

As for playing keyboards I cannot see how that has anything to do with expanding the guitars tone spectrum using a guitar synth.

I use mine to track tones and sounds under and blended with my std guitar tones which no keyboard player can possibly do.

There is no way to really explain in detail the tones possible having two PCM engines, and COSM modeling on the synth of the control and range of possibilities one simply having a flawless 12 string beautiful sound with piano, strings and so on blended with your std tones or some futuristic mind blowing weirdness adding to the over all wall of sound possible.

 

I use two independent rigs for my std guitar and pedalboard and the fullrange rig for the synth. I do not always use the synth but it can be quite fun having that potential.

 

There is no way I would screw mount or sticky tape a synth pickup on my Les Paul's. The simple bridge bracket requires nothing but adjusting the bridge height down 2mm to allow for the thickness of the bracket. Plus the new controller design clamps onto the strap button and body with pads to not harm the finish.

Now I will say using a synth is not for everyone and I never really recommend getting one. As it is not suited for most players. It is a very involved programming learning curve comprehension way too complex for the plug and play type player. I am a heavy fusion player and I love having that rather infinite tonal expansion to my sound if and when I want it.

I wish pictures were easier here. i have no upload mine into a 3rd party storage yet to call the URL for the pic. I have some pics of the GK3 mount and bridge issues but have not had the time to mess with it lately. Anyway, in 2015 for the Les Paul player with the bridge type the new GK-3 has a simple slip on mounting bracket which causes no alteration to the guitar.

[capmaster]

Besides a miniMoog, I used Roland JUNO-60, JX-3P, Korg Polysix and Yamaha DX-7 extensively during their heydays. I played them using keys only. Programming was never a problem for me. I have considered adding MIDI functionality to my GraphTech Ghost equipped guitars of which the Gibson Alex Lifeson Les Paul wouldn't even call for further routing, and the mod would be completely reversible. However, my Ghost modded Fender Strats would require excessive woodwork to accomplish that.

 

My main reasons not to do it are that vocals, acoustic guitar, electric guitar and synthesizer setup may turn out as personal overload, and that all in all it will be very costly, too. Furthermore, the guitars would either be no longer playable without MIDI power or no longer allow for a piezo/magnetics blend.

 

Anyway, I would definitely go the piezo route. They provide a wicked-fast tracking impossible with magnetics, and there's no need for an additional pickup. It's all in the Ghost bridges.

[OLDFART]

Besides a miniMoog, I used Roland JUNO-60, JX-3P, Korg Polysix and Yamaha DX-7 extensively during their heydays. I played them using keys only. Programming was never a problem for me. I have considered adding MIDI functionality to my GraphTech Ghost equipped guitars of which the Gibson Alex Lifeson Les Paul wouldn't even call for further routing, and the mod would be completely reversible. However, my Ghost modded Fender Strats would require excessive woodwork to accomplish that.

 

My main reasons not to do it are that vocals, acoustic guitar, electric guitar and synthesizer setup may turn out as personal overload, and that all in all it will be very costly, too. Furthermore, the guitars would either be no longer playable without MIDI power or no longer allow for a piezo/magnetics blend.

 

Anyway, I would definitely go the piezo route. They provide a wicked-fast tracking impossible with magnetics, and there's no need for an additional pickup. It's all in the Ghost bridges.

Depends what you like.

Simple to put a GK-3 on a Les Paul bridge, requires just slipping the bracket on and putting the bridge back on and lowering it to compensate for the thickness of the plate. One does not have to screw or route anything and it can be removed with no sign it was ever there. Nice if you have a synth equipped guitar but I do not care for a lot of them myself. Piezo not my thing either.

My custom Strats have GK-3's mounted w screws but no way I would do that to my Les Paul's, has to be non evasive for me. I am not much interested in using any guitar but the Les Paul's these days. Just love the things. I was a custom Strat guy for decades.

i just use the GR-55 to add to my sound spectrum not really into all out synth use and such. The guitar tone is always the basis of my sound, the synth is just a blended add on.

I tired uploading some pics but this site does not accept the URL of my host so not sure what to do about it. I guess who cares really.

[OLDFART]

No need to return here. I stayed with listening rather than looking anyway. B)

If anyone is suggesting I said set intonation by ear or looks you have to be out of your mind.

The stair step pattern is there on any guitar when the intonation is set right. There is variance in the height of the steps but the pattern is always the same.

Believe or think what you like. It is a factual thing. You can walk in the music store and look down the line at the factory setups on the better guitars, one after another the same basic step pattern is there. Thinner strings closer and thicker further back. Just like I described and indicated. 1st closest, then 2nd, 3rd, then repeats again on the 4th somewhere between the 1st and 2nd length then 5th more and the 6th farthest away then the rest.

Wow, Some of you chaps must practice misunderstanding everything so you can pretend no one knows what they are talking about. Best of luck.

[btoth76]

Hello!

 

This instrument has been used by a pro, with long decades of recording experience. It is also marked "1" by a sound engineer - those of You who have played on records, know what it means.

 

 

Cheers... Bence

[cs orange widow]

If anyone is suggesting I said set intonation by ear or looks you have to be out of your mind.

The stair step pattern is there on any guitar when the intonation is set right. There is variance in the height of the steps but the pattern is always the same.

Believe or think what you like. It is a factual thing. You can walk in the music store and look down the line at the factory setups on the better guitars, one after another the same basic step pattern is there. Thinner strings closer and thicker further back. Just like I described and indicated. 1st closest, then 2nd, 3rd, then repeats again on the 4th somewhere between the 1st and 2nd length then 5th more and the 6th farthest away then the rest.

Wow, Some of you chaps must practice misunderstanding everything so you can pretend no one knows what they are talking about. Best of luck.

 

 

I understand what your saying with the step pattern, so my question to you is the factory set up on my 2012 and 2014 customs are exactly the same, the saddles run straight across the bridge in the middle.. Is that how they come from factory?? I'm not a big intonation buff, it's definitely close enough my tuner tells me it's right, so that's good enough for me!!!!

[Searcy]

Hello!

 

This instrument has been used by a pro, with long decades of recording experience. It is also marked "1" by a sound engineer - those of You who have played on records, know what it means.

 

 

Cheers... Bence

 

Bah! What did Les know about intonation and guitars? 😁

[btoth76]

Bah! What did Les know about intonation and guitars? 😁

 

Hello Searcy!

 

Not much. At least, His very own instrument tells He didn't know much about it.

 

 

Cheers... Bence