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Amazing what people get rid of


aliasphobias

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I had been wanting something older to go w/ the '13 J45 and worked out a deal for this one. A 1963 J45, bridge replaced (a little oversized in my opinion, lack of dots, etc.), 1 9/16" nut, beautiful cherryburst (an acquired taste), no cracks or other bad stuff. Sound wise it has that nice Gibson '60's volume, with good solid bass thump, nice midrange as a compliment.

I'm looking forward to an extended weekend with plenty of picking. IMG_6021_zpsfvay8kar.jpg

 

 

 

A happy bird day to all!

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Considering my last guitar was found sticking out of a trash can, nothing surprises me.

 

Anyway, Congrats. I would also assume that the nut width is 1 11/16".

 

Maybe J45nick or somebody though could answer this. The only '63 J45s I have seen with that particular finish (which to my eyes is different than the standard cherry burst) also have an additional ring on the rosette - a style which becomes standard in 1964.

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Considering my last guitar was found sticking out of a trash can, nothing surprises me.

 

Anyway, Congrats. I would also assume that the nut width is 1 11/16".

 

Maybe J45nick or somebody though could answer this. The only '63 J45s I have seen with that particular finish (which to my eyes is different than the standard cherry burst) also have an additional ring on the rosette - a style which becomes standard in 1964.

 

 

 

He mentions a nut width of 1 9/16".

 

I'm not exactly sure when the double-ring rosette appeared on the J-45--sometime after 1960. That three-ply-outer, seven-ply-inner rosette is the same one used on the SJ pretty much from day one in 1942-'43.

 

Dating a J-45 from 1962-1965 can be difficult. The last alpha prefix FON/serial number for these was 1961, according to most sources, but the evolution of numbers in the 1962-'65 period seems unclear, at least to me.

 

For models like the ES 335--remember that electrics and acoustics were made in the same plant in Kalamazoo--we can say pretty definitively that the 1 9/16" nut becomes standard sometime in 1965. I don't know if we can make that assumption about acoustics like the J-45. I have seem LG models represented as 1962 or 1963 with narrow nuts, but that may just be mis-identification because of serial number ambiguity. Gibson also used very narrow nuts on some high-end archtops as early as the 1930's, from what I've seen and read.

 

Everything I have read suggests that some batches of red dye used by Gibson in the early/mid 1960's were unstable in color, and faded in various ways over the years depending on the dye lot and the amount and type of UV exposure over the years. They may originally have been pretty similar in appearance, but faded differently over time. That is certainly borne out by what you see when you go to guitar shows.

 

The original cherryburst could be pretty garish. When my 1948-1950 J-45 was re-topped by Gibson in 1968, it came back with a cherryburst so unattractive to my eye that I hated to take the guitar out of the case, and ended up stripping it back to a natural top in 1970. It lived as a "J-50" until Ross Teigen replicated the original sunburst for me in 2010.

 

The rhythm guitarist in the group I worked with back in 1970-'71 had a 1965 or so 'bird that had that same intense cherryburst, which I just couldn't wrap my head around.

 

I'm pretty sure the original cherryburst is made up of only two dye colors: translucent yellow for the sun part, and red for the burst around the edges. If the red fades out, you can get an almost uniformly pale-to-medium yellow appearance on these bursts, perhaps depending on the relative instability of different red dye lots. The amount of red sprayed over the yellow base determines the original intensity of the burst, which could vary from orange-ish (red/yellow) to pure cherry red, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Unfortunately, our visual memory of color seems as ephemeral as our aural memory of tone.

 

Some of the pure cherry solid-color ES models from this same period have faded in really unusual ways, so that the cherry is now almost pumpkin-orange.

 

The bridge on the OP's guitar is almost certainly an oversize replacement, but who knows when it was done? The guitar looks nicely faded in the photo, but it also looks like the room lighting is either incandescent or warm halogen (about 2500-2700 Kelvin), so it's hard to know what it looks like in daylight K temps of 4500 or more. Would love to see a picture of that for comparison.

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I really do like the finish on this '63 far better than I do the standard cherry burst. Also the necks on guitars after 1962 tend to have a bit more meat on them. Not as nice as a 1950s neck but a big improvement over the necks on the 1961 and 1962 guitars. If I were going to snag a 1960s Gibson it would be a '63 or '64 with that finish or a natural top.

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Thanks for the info ZW & Nick. After measuring the nut again, not quite 1 11/16" ZW. Appears the bridge work was done 5-7-77. There is an overlay of rosewood on the plate with initials of G.M.S. 5-7-77.

IMG_6041_zpsratysah7.jpg

A picture of the 'burst or lack of in daylightIMG_6004_zpsujy6grhq.jpg

And a picture of a J45 cherryburst, can't remember the year on it, I had a couple years ago. Which was a pretty accurate representation of the color of it.

IMG_5245_zps1xrkaunj.jpg

As for the table and chairs, for those who commented, the lady I bought it from received it for a wedding present in 1956.

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That faded 'burst on your new J-45 is sweet! Are the back and sides cherry-stained, or dark mahogany?

 

I've seen both in that timeframe.

 

The rosewood overlay on the bridgeplate is interesting. It may have covered up the big holes left by the original saddle adjustment mechanism. If it originally had a plastic adjustable bridge, there would have been two big holes for the adjusters, plus three smaller holes for the lag screws that held the bridge on. The bridgeplates and tops of J-45's in this period can be a bit of Swiss cheese from all the bridge holes.

 

There's plenty of gluing surface with that large bridge footprint, so whoever did the work probably decided the normal small hold-down/alignment bolts were unnecessary.

 

Is there a serial number/FON on the neckblock and/or the back of the headstock?

 

From what I've seen, it isn't uncommon to find 1 5/8" nut widths in the early/mid 1960's. As ZW says, the neck profiles on both Gibson acoustics and electrics varied a lot from about 1960-1965.

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That faded 'burst on your new J-45 is sweet! Are the back and sides cherry-stained, or dark mahogany?

 

I've seen both in that timeframe.

 

The rosewood overlay on the bridgeplate is interesting. It may have covered up the big holes left by the original saddle adjustment mechanism. If it originally had a plastic adjustable bridge, there would have been two big holes for the adjusters, plus three smaller holes for the lag screws that held the bridge on. The bridgeplates and tops of J-45's in this period can be a bit of Swiss cheese from all the bridge holes.

 

There's plenty of gluing surface with that large bridge footprint, so whoever did the work probably decided the normal small hold-down/alignment bolts were unnecessary.

 

Is there a serial number/FON on the neckblock and/or the back of the headstock?

 

From what I've seen, it isn't uncommon to find 1 5/8" nut widths in the early/mid 1960's. As ZW says, the neck profiles on both Gibson acoustics and electrics varied a lot from about 1960-1965.

It looks to be cherry stained, though fading as well. Nothing on the neck block. Serial number stamped on the back of the headstock duplicates ('63 & '67) 104xxx. It could be a '67 with changed pickguard? I thoroughly love trying to unravel these Gibson mysteries!

My thoughts exactly on the bridge plate Nick. I will be replacing it in the near future so may shed some light on it then.

 

 

IMG_6045%202_zpsrhpqou8y.jpg

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It looks to be cherry stained, though fading as well. Nothing on the neck block. Serial number stamped on the back of the headstock duplicates ('63 & '67) 104xxx. It could be a '67 with changed pickguard? I thoroughly love trying to unravel these Gibson mysteries!

My thoughts exactly on the bridge plate Nick. I will be replacing it in the near future so may shed some light on it then.

 

You probably won't be able to fully unravel this one. Even with that pickguard, it could be either year. I suspect the pickguard is original. If it's a 1967, it really should have a 1 9/16" nut, or very, very slightly over. You might go over the pickguard up near the neck with a magnifier to see if there is any sign of a rubbed-away boob logo, which would tell you it isn't a '63.

 

The red case interior throws me a bit. In '63, a yellow/gold interior would have been more likely, I believe. But cases are easier to swap out than any other part. A kid down the hall from me in 1966 in college had a J-50 that was fairly new, and it had a case with the yellow/gold interior. I only remember it because it was so distinctive, and the light mahogany back/sides were so different from those of my ratty old '48-'50 J-45.

 

Any way you look at it, your "new" J-45 looks like a great example of a mid-1960's J-45.

 

By the way, be really careful removing the old bridgeplate, particularly if it is plywood rather than maple. They can come apart, and take bits of the top with them. Here's what the one looks like (1968 version) that Ross Teigen took out of my J-45. You can see the large holes for the saddle adjusting mechanism. If your guitar had the plastic bridge, it would also have three more holes for the lag screws, about the size of the bridge pin holes, but obviously placed differently.

 

boneadjustable.jpg

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IMG_6004_zpsujy6grhq.jpg

 

As for the table and chairs, for those who commented, the lady I bought it from received it for a wedding present in 1956.

My God - what a beauty! [wub] Congrats on your nice find. [thumbup]

 

From here table and chair look very 1950's-like, too. There must have been some sort of global furniture fashion then.

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Because I do not like it and they do not want to piss me off.

HaHa. I like it but have to admit I am a little picky. I think because it is from an era that I strongly identify with in my life (the mid '60's). My uncle worked in a music store and was able to bring stuff home to play. He brought a cherryburst j45 home for a weekend when we were visiting and I was in love. I have wanted one pretty much since then, but I have practiced catch and release on some that didn't have the right 'burst. That's goofy I know.

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I think because it is from an era that I strongly identify with in my life (the mid '60's). My uncle worked in a music store and was able to bring stuff home to play. He brought a cherryburst j45 home for a weekend when we were visiting and I was in love. I have wanted one pretty much since then, but I have practiced catch and release on some that didn't have the right 'burst. That's goofy I know.

 

It's not goofy at all. Most of us do exactly the same thing.

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