docr Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 My "NOS" J-185 Red Spruce Limited Edition has arrived yesterday. Why "NOS"? I bought it from a guitar store in Berlin from the showroom, but it is a 2015 modell and it is a new guitar. Does anybody know more about die J-185 Red Spruce Limited Edition(s)? My research in the WWW gave some information from stores which had a J-185 and some information about the number of guitars which have been in the "limited" series. They differ between 40, 50 and 75 - or have there been more limited runs? There could be another production in 2013. My guitar is clearly from 2015 as the inspection proctoll shows. The second question is about the "Certificate of Authenticity" which was in the case. The first certificate I have got for a Gibson acoustic. Who´s signature is on the certificate (photo is attached)? They made a good job in 2015, a nice and compared to a SJ200 or Dove really lightweight instrument. It´s my only guitar with a red spruce top, looks very goood. The maple of the sides an back is not as spectacular as the maple of my Dove and SJ200, but that´s fine for me. Sound is the main thing and my first tests showed me that the J-185 is not as loud as a SJ200 (not very surprising related to the body size) or a dreadnought, but the guitar has a faster reaction, the mid and high strings have a good resolution, the bass is ok, but not as mighty as for example on my Southern Jumbo (by the way - the top of my 2018 Southern Jumbo looks quite similar to the J-185 top, but the SJ has a sitka spruce top). Fingerpicking makes a lot of fun on the J-185 and strumming sounds very good if you do not have to compete with louder instruments. I hope that historians of the forum members can answer my questions. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 NOS is exactly what you have , new old stock. Nice guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I think you deserve a 'well done' for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Found some more information about Gibson serial numbers. Fits to the year and day of production shown on the quality check sheet. The "022" at the end of the number of my J-185 seems to be the 22nd J-185 of this production batch - is this correct? But I could not find any precise Information on the batch size. New modells of J-185 are offered for the double price. Seems this type is built from time to time, not permanently. Anyhow - some Christmas Songs are waiting to be picked on the new guitar ... Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Many Gibson Acoustic fans agree that the J 185 is one of Gibson’s finest designs .First appearing in 1951. Enjoy your guitar ! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Many Gibson Acoustic fans agree that the J 185 is one of Gibson’s finest designs .First appearing in 1951. Enjoy your guitar ! JC Thank you JC! I will - but first I have to moderate my playing - maybe even using a thinner pick for this fine guitar, hard playing as on a SJ200 oder mit D28 seems not to be the favourite of a J-185 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Congrats on the J-185. . . of course a photo would be appreciated. Strange that you say it doesn't favor a higher playing intensity- the maple should really shine in that department, especially on a guitar with a body shape such as the '185. Have you checked to see if maybe the string action height is too low? You could also go to a slightly heavier string gauge, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchabalk Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Found some more information about Gibson serial numbers. Fits to the year and day of production shown on the quality check sheet. The "022" at the end of the number of my J-185 seems to be the 22nd J-185 of this production batch - is this correct? But I could not find any precise Information on the batch size. New modells of J-185 are offered for the double price. Seems this type is built from time to time, not permanently. Anyhow - some Christmas Songs are waiting to be picked on the new guitar ... Doc Close, the serial number works like this: XyyyXzzz XX = Year of production - in your case 15 (aka: 2015) yyy = Day of the year - in your case 196 (aka: Wednesday, July 15) zzz = which number guitar was made that day, 22nd off the line (eg: not just J185s, but every acoustic they were putting stickers on that day). I don't think that the date the serial number is from is necessarily indicative of any milestone of the build (build complete, finish complete, QA check complete etc?). They don'y tend to share the number of guitars that are built of a specific configuration. for some special runs they might, and someone here might have more information about that particular set of guitars. It sounds like a great instrument, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Congrats on the J-185. . . of course a photo would be appreciated. Strange that you say it doesn't favor a higher playing intensity- the maple should really shine in that department, especially on a guitar with a body shape such as the '185. Have you checked to see if maybe the string action height is too low? You could also go to a slightly heavier string gauge, too. Photo will follow! I have to revise my statement about playing intensity. You can beat the J-185 quite hard as you write, I have just played 1 hour to test the instrument, was my first impression yesterday. Maybe I did not dare to challenge the beautiful new guitar - and I played the last days on a D35 with mediums strings, different feeling. But - the J-185 sounds very nice at lower level, too. String gauge should be "light" (012 high e-string, Gibson 80/20) as the guitar store had to replace the old strings before shipping. String action is fine, with the exception height of the low E-string at the saddle. It is much too high, even higher than the A-string. No problem, I will fix it - but where was the quality control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Earlier this year, I purchased a NOS 2015 J-50 Custom Shop model. In doing research on this and other limited run instruments from 2015, I kept running across a production run number of 75. Re your J-185, tone seems to vary considerably from one to the next. Mine is from 2012 and has a lot of bass, as well as the percussive & sharp decay sound you'd expect from maple. Some string experimentation & playing time might put yours into a very sweet spot. Congrats on the new acquisition, and enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Red spruce needs play time...it takes a LOT longer than Sitka to loosen up and "come in" as it were. Most Adirondack topped instruments sound stiff and tight for the first two or three years of their lives, but when they come to maturity they are spectacularly loud and dynamic. I love the 16" Jumbo size...I have a J180 which is just wonderful. Enjoy and play in good health! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Close, the serial number works like this: XyyyXzzz XX = Year of production - in your case 15 (aka: 2015) yyy = Day of the year - in your case 196 (aka: Wednesday, July 15) zzz = which number guitar was made that day, 22nd off the line (eg: not just J185s, but every acoustic they were putting stickers on that day). I don't think that the date the serial number is from is necessarily indicative of any milestone of the build (build complete, finish complete, QA check complete etc?). They don'y tend to share the number of guitars that are built of a specific configuration. for some special runs they might, and someone here might have more information about that particular set of guitars. It sounds like a great instrument, enjoy! Hi jchabalk, Thank you for the information! Now I understand the serial numbers much better. In the case the date of the serial number shows July, 15th and the QC check report is dated somewhere between 20th and 31st of July. I´m looking for the number of J-185s which have been produced for the "Limited Edition" my guitar is belonging to. I am just curious as I have another "Limited Edition" - a Dove and I do not know if "Limited Editions" are really limited. Anyhow, I would have bought the instruments if limited or not. Especially due to the fact that the price for the 2018 / 2019 J-185s (and Doves) modells are much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I´m looking for the number of J-185s which have been produced for the "Limited Edition" my guitar is belonging to. In case you missed it, see my post above - I'd guess a production run of 75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Earlier this year, I purchased a NOS 2015 J-50 Custom Shop model. In doing research on this and other limited run instruments from 2015, I kept running across a production run number of 75. Re your J-185, tone seems to vary considerably from one to the next. Mine is from 2012 and has a lot of bass, as well as the percussive & sharp decay sound you'd expect from maple. Some string experimentation & playing time might put yours into a very sweet spot. Congrats on the new acquisition, and enjoy! A number of 75 I have found somewhere for the limited runs. Your description of your 2012 J-185 is very interesting, as especially my "new" J-185 has "enough" bass, but not as much as for example my Southern Jumbo or J35 (this is really a mighty E-string on the J-35, good for blues). String experiments will of course follow, just started with light 80/20 set, phosphor bronze will follow, but no coated strings (maybe a test with a set Martin Lifespan). Yes and to integrated Jinder´s contribution (thank you, too) - 2 to 3 years is a long time, so I will play and listen . As my J-185 must have been hanging in the store´s showroom for years I hope that it has heard some good music in this period. Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalex Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Congratulations on the J-185 docr. My J-185 is my favorite guitar, I'd love try one with an Adirondack top just to see what kind of difference it makes to the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Thank you JC! I will - but first I have to moderate my playing - maybe even using a thinner pick for this fine guitar, hard playing as on a SJ200 oder mit D28 seems not to be the favourite of a J-185 Doct, Red Spruce is easier to bring to life when compared to sitka. So I understand you having to go a bit easier on the J 185. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Congrats! Trying to figure out Gibson Limited Edition releases though is like a "Who's on First" routine. They seem to put out a ton of them each year. I have never owned one although I did come within a hair of buying a mid-1990s LE Martin D-28 which was one of only two of that model built with tops made from a small batch of old growth Englemann Spruce Martin had dug up somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Doct, Red Spruce is easier to bring to life when compared to sitka. JC ? ? Congrats! Trying to figure out Gibson Limited Edition releases though is like a "Who's on First" routine. Considering the OP wrote "hard playing as on a SJ200 oder mit D28 ", and mentioned getting the '185 from a shop in Berlin, he might not be familiar with the "Who's on First" routine. If not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M. If so, good, you can get those 6 minutes back on your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 ? ? Considering the OP wrote "hard playing as on a SJ200 oder mit D28 ", and mentioned getting the '185 from a shop in Berlin, he might not be familiar with the "Who's on First" routine. If not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M. If so, good, you can get those 6 minutes back on your life. 62 burst - thank you for the link to "Who´s On First" - I did not know the sketch and the term "Who´s On First". Yes - your observation is right - I am from Germany, exactly Bavaria. Grew up with 60s and 70s rock and popular Music, later found the the 50s Rock´n´Roll (in the 70s we wanted to play other music than the Disco songs running on the radio) and Country Music. AFN was one of the information sources for us, you could (and still can) hear it in Bavaria. I´m listening to the Byrds, Dylan, Young, a lot of Bluegrass (I know, not the main terrain for Gibson acoustics) and watching the the scene of young Americana and Country musicians without forgetting Hendrix, Gallagher, SRV and the Stones. Finally some Gibsons and Martins made the way from Bozeman and Nazareth to Bavaria and I like them all. Good contrast to the job - but this brings the money to buy guitars Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Not red spruce, but here's Ren's take on the model http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTI9esGQPe4 Here's Greg Koch playing my guitar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O7w8hNKvl8&t=0s&list=LLuRlxBjdwfOuV3nZJlrh1cg&index=50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Lots of good info on this thread. Ren states the guitar was introduced in 1952. J.C. is correct as it was introduced in 1951. One thing to keep in mind is the size of the guitar. The J-200 has about the same top surface area as a dreadnaught. Even though the J-200 has a 17 inch lower bout the much narrower waist drastically cuts into the surface area of the guitar. It also has a lot to do with the unsupported area of the top. Translate this to the J-185 and you will see it has less top surface area that a typical dreadnaught. The guitar was not designed to be a cannon. This guitar was designed to be a very even and balanced guitar. This instrument is a favorite of song writers as it is so balanced that they can hear every note clearly. This is one of the reasons why folks like to write tunes on a piano. This is very important when composing a melody. A songwriter need to hear each note clearly and cleanly. If you can sit down in a quiet room and play a nice melody line you will see hear the balance and evenness of the guitar. The bass never overpowers the treble and the mid-range is completely balanced with the rest of the guitar. When you transition from the base strings to the middle group of strings to the treble strings there is an even smooth transition of volume and tone. The song writer needs to hear each note clearly and evenly. No heavy bass and no thin treble just even balance across the fretboard. The chord strummer doesn't necessarily need this feature. This guitar is a favorite of recording engineers as well. They hate guitars that don't have a good balance as they need to get a good even sound across the entire fretboard. The J-185 is a dream to record with. As to the difference in the date of the guitar and the date on the inspection tag. The guitar gets neck fit while it is in whitewood or not finished. The serial number gets stamped on the guitar at this time. Then the guitar is final sanded and prepped for the spray booth. It takes a while for the rest of the build to be completed then the finished guitar is inspected and the inspection tag is completed. Number of guitars in a run? Gibson will give the run a maximum number but they very rarely achieve that number. A guitar like the J-185 is not produced in large numbers. Lets pick a random year. Say 2002 They made a total of 8 J-185's and that is in several different woods and colors. They made a total of 1,320 J-45's in just the mahogany body with VS finish. I seriously doubt that the made more than 20 (optimistic) J-185's with red spruce top, The signature is that of Josh Taborski. He is the General Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 Not red spruce, but here's Ren's take on the model http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTI9esGQPe4 Here's Greg Koch playing my guitar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O7w8hNKvl8&t=0s&list=LLuRlxBjdwfOuV3nZJlrh1cg&index=50 Dave F - thank you for the two links. Ren´s explanations are very intersting and watching Greg Koch is always fun - would be interesting to see him testing really bad guitars, but I think even they would sound good in his hands. Do I understand right - the guitar shown in the video is the instrument you own now? Nice guitar. By the way - in both vidoes the clamping device for a condensor mic is used - I have started a thread about These microphones long time ago and now I could see them in practice. Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 Lots of good info on this thread. Ren states the guitar was introduced in 1952. J.C. is correct as it was introduced in 1951. One thing to keep in mind is the size of the guitar. The J-200 has about the same top surface area as a dreadnaught. Even though the J-200 has a 17 inch lower bout the much narrower waist drastically cuts into the surface area of the guitar. It also has a lot to do with the unsupported area of the top. Translate this to the J-185 and you will see it has less top surface area that a typical dreadnaught. The guitar was not designed to be a cannon. This guitar was designed to be a very even and balanced guitar. This instrument is a favorite of song writers as it is so balanced that they can hear every note clearly. This is one of the reasons why folks like to write tunes on a piano. This is very important when composing a melody. A songwriter need to hear each note clearly and cleanly. If you can sit down in a quiet room and play a nice melody line you will see hear the balance and evenness of the guitar. The bass never overpowers the treble and the mid-range is completely balanced with the rest of the guitar. When you transition from the base strings to the middle group of strings to the treble strings there is an even smooth transition of volume and tone. The song writer needs to hear each note clearly and evenly. No heavy bass and no thin treble just even balance across the fretboard. The chord strummer doesn't necessarily need this feature. This guitar is a favorite of recording engineers as well. They hate guitars that don't have a good balance as they need to get a good even sound across the entire fretboard. The J-185 is a dream to record with. As to the difference in the date of the guitar and the date on the inspection tag. The guitar gets neck fit while it is in whitewood or not finished. The serial number gets stamped on the guitar at this time. Then the guitar is final sanded and prepped for the spray booth. It takes a while for the rest of the build to be completed then the finished guitar is inspected and the inspection tag is completed. Number of guitars in a run? Gibson will give the run a maximum number but they very rarely achieve that number. A guitar like the J-185 is not produced in large numbers. Lets pick a random year. Say 2002 They made a total of 8 J-185's and that is in several different woods and colors. They made a total of 1,320 J-45's in just the mahogany body with VS finish. I seriously doubt that the made more than 20 (optimistic) J-185's with red spruce top, The signature is that of Josh Taborski. He is the General Manager. Hi Hogeye, your contribution gives me a lot of very interesting information. Never considered the difference of surface area and if you would have asked me I would have answered that a J 185 has the same surface area as a dreadnought. I had the chance to play the J-185 now some days and get used to the slightly different sound and the very quick response (hard to describe for a non-native speaker). Indeed it sounds very clear as you desribe. Will take it to the next session / open stage where my SJ-200 nearly wrecked the room with the heavy bass last time Unfortunately I am no song writer and do not record, but this special sound fascinated me in the music store - even with the "dead" strings on the guitar, typical for showroom instruments ... Thanks for the explanation of the way serial numbers are generated. So the neck is the "starting point" of an instrument. I did not expect that the number of J-185s is so small compared to other models. I found mine by success as I talked to the salesperson about a kind of "SJ 200 clone" hanging in another showroom. He told me that the body of this "clone" was a little smaller - in direction of a J-185. I answered that I would be interested in testing a J-185 but they are hard to find - and they had the 3 year old "red spruce" which I bought finally next door ... Thank you again for the answer who signed my certificate. Will keep it carefully. Have a nice Christmas! Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 . Do I understand right - the guitar shown in the video is the instrument you own now? Nice guitar. Yes it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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