Ebony nut?

[dhanners623]

Looks like I might be moving back to the U.S. this is summer, which is dangerous because they have guitar repair shops there, as opposed to Kuwait, which has none. Dangerous because I get ideas -- costly ideas I'm prevented from doing anything about in a land with no repairmen.

 

Anyway.... I've long been wanting to get rid of the Tusq nut on my J-35. (It's got a Colosi saddle.) I was wondering -- many of the vintage J-35s have ebony nuts. Soundwise, are there advantages/disadvantages in an ebony nut compared to bone? Yeah, I know a nut doesn't have much of an impact on sound, but I thought I'd get the collective wisdom that's available here.

[scriv58]

my Waterloo guitar has an ebony nut- I can not say what effect it has had other than holding the strings in place.

[Murph]

My 1933 Gibson mandolin has an ebony nut AND bridge. It has tone for days.

 

Go for it !

[drathbun]

Looks like I might be moving back to the U.S. this is summer, which is dangerous because they have guitar repair shops there, as opposed to Kuwait, which has none. Dangerous because I get ideas -- costly ideas I'm prevented from doing anything about in a land with no repairmen.

 

Anyway.... I've long been wanting to get rid of the Tusq nut on my J-35. (It's got a Colosi saddle.) I was wondering -- many of the vintage J-35s have ebony nuts. Soundwise, are there advantages/disadvantages in an ebony nut compared to bone? Yeah, I know a nut doesn't have much of an impact on sound, but I thought I'd get the collective wisdom that's available here.

 

I beg to differ about the nut having no impact on sound. I think the nut has a huge impact on the tone of the guitar. Just go from plastic to bone and hear the difference. That said, ebony is MUCH softer than bone so I expect you will get a much more muted, softer tone from ebony over bone. My preference is for bone over Tusq, Tusq over Micarta, Micarta over ebony and ebony over plastic.

[zombywoof]

I beg to differ about the nut having no impact on sound. I think the nut has a huge impact on the tone of the guitar. Just go from plastic to bone and hear the difference. That said, ebony is MUCH softer than bone so I expect you will get a much more muted, softer tone from ebony over bone. My preference is for bone over Tusq, Tusq over Micarta, Micarta over ebony and ebony over plastic.

 

The nut has no impact on fretted notes. The only thing I can think of that has less impact on tone would be the end pin.

[zombywoof]

Anybody who has spent time with 1920s and 1930s guitars has dealt with ebony nuts. A couple of my old Schmidts still have them although most have been replaced with bone which is pretty much the default material these days so I just go with the flow. . While I do not really care about the nut material, when it comes to floating bridges ebony is the way to go.

[E-minor7]

I'm on the team that believes nut-material has a significant impact on sound.

Carving wider spaced nuts in 4 different materials for my 1963 J-45 in the fall of 2017 only underlined that opinion.

I have also come to realize that ears play in, , , but more than that playing style.

If you play nuanced and with degrees of softer touches, the differences will ring through very clearly.

Call it strange or placebo, , , then go and try it out.

And do phone back with a report.

[zombywoof]

I'm on the team that believes nut-material has a significant impact on sound.

 

If the nut is behind a fretted note how can it make any difference?

[Murph]

Nuts can be very persuasive..

[E-minor7]

If the nut is behind a fretted note how can it make any difference?

Yes yes yes, we've been there before.

A capo shuts out the whole topic, but playing all 20 frets relentlessly makes way all up to the nut, 1 string or another, 2-3-4 back'n'forth.

I believe that sends the nut into constant swing, which might be the answer.

 

Now I'm not one of the scientists of this Board (btw. they generally have been quiet for a while), but my ears'n'feel have been polished over the years.

And frequently A/Bd with other sets of hyper-sensitive ears. I know they change a bit with mood'n'brain from day to day, but I trust them.

 

Besides (as you know) I'm not the only person with this opinion - check the net, , the electric guys are in too.

Anyway, if you don't follow or if the idea is too unreal for you that's fine. Then it just won't be an issue at all.

 

P.S. - the one material that surprised me the most was ultralight plastic. The sound simply lost core, , , even say soul.

Let's hear from others. .

[Dave F]

Zero fret is my favorite. Then the nut is nuttin’ more than a spacer.

[OldCowboy]

I like it when all the slots are cut properly and there's minimal chance of the thing breaking at a crucial moment (the high E slot is my usual culprit). Bone is tops - tusq is even worse than plastic.

[E-minor7]

I like it when all the slots are cut properly and there's minimal chance of the thing breaking at a crucial moment (the high E slot is my usual culprit). Bone is tops - tusq is even worse than plastic.

Had to stay in the hard-to-get nylon for my 1963 J-45. Wanted that plastic bridged ceramic saddled oldie to sound as original as possible.

Have buffalo horn on one of my main-guitars. Don't know if it shortens the sustain a bit, but I like what I hear.

Btw. I'm not up on highway-long-sustain at all. As a player of many individual notes I prefer a rather fast decay.

45s do that, , , and also my re-necked 66 CW, , , with the black horn.

Birds with jaded steel too. .

[j45nick]

I'm pretty sure the nut on my "new" 1950 J-45 is hard nylon or something similar. It is sort of semi-translucent. It is certainly original, and despite the fact that I have bone on my other slope-J's, I decided not to replace the original nut on this guitar.

 

As far as tone change goes, Bob Colosi says: "In nearly all cases, the effectiveness of the nut in changing the sonic qualities of your instrument is negligible."

 

This comes from a guy who makes his living making and selling saddles, pins, and nuts out of various materials.

[E-minor7]

As far as tone change goes, Bob Colosi says: "In nearly all cases, the effectiveness of the nut in changing the sonic qualities of your instrument is negligible."

 

This comes from a guy who makes his living making and selling saddles, pins, and nuts out of various materials.

Guitar-shop men listen like average plus 1 or 2.

 

Guitar-docs and luthiers like nerds.

 

Studio engineers, producers, musicians listen like predators, , , or insane. .

[aliasphobias]

Ha, here I go into the deep end. I agree with all of the above, of course. I know that it shouldn't make a difference (and to many it doesn't), but I have done enough A/B to hear a subtle difference in most guitars. What I hear is a nice clear note from the harder material (bone,ivory,ebony[to some degree]) but not so much on fretted strings. It's like, pins-saddle-nut-strings isn't it? Some hear a difference, others don't.

I have to admit, when I read that Nick & Mr.7th, prefer the early nylon or translucent material, I may revisit it. I do have a matchbox full of them. Hard to find? Not here!

[Col Mustard]

Bone might be best... most advanced luthiers I've talked to prefer bone.

 

I like tusq... I've replaced three Epiphone nuts with tusq and heard a tonal improvement

but I confess that I also upgraded the bridges and pickups at the same time.

 

I have a tusq nut and bridge saddle on my 2018 J-45 AG, and these work fine.

My J-45 is so new that I've been listening to its tone mellow for the last year,

and I'm sure it will continue.

 

Those parts were factory stock... anyway they are serviceable as issued and I feel

no need at this time to change them out.

 

So I'm still playing and listening as my new guitar's tone changes.

I've actually never owned a NEW acoustic guitar before. All my other acoustics

were purchased used. I decided to pounce on this one because I knew Gibson

was entering their bankruptcy phase, so I got mine just before that happened.

 

In the future, these might be known as "pre-bankruptcy" Gibsons. *laughs

I thought I'd support my favorite guitar company in the only way I know how.

I wasn't buying any of the preferred stock... just a guitar. Good choice...

Guitars make music.

 

I don't really understand why players might object to tusq. I've had considerable

experience with nuts made from this material. But I have a Gibson SG with

a factory Corian nut, and this seems fine to me also. It's given zero trouble since

2013.

 

If I thought there was something wrong with the tusq nut and bridge saddle on

my J-45, I would seriously consider changing them. So I read this post with

interest, and an open mind. On a J-45, bone seems like the proper material.

And that's what I would choose, if I thought I needed to. Ebony seems too soft

and too easily split. I have made pick guards out of Ebony, as well as tenon covers

and control cavity covers and Truss Rod Covers. I like Ebony, but not for the nut.

IMHO, tusq is better, and bone is maybe just a little better than that. But only a

little.

 

My J-45 is a 21st century instrument, which unplugs ALL of the 'vintage

J-45" mystique. Mine has a unique tone, which I like. Walnut back and sides,

walnut bridge, walnut fretboard, spruce top... Maple neck. I confess that I

like unique instruments. Especially this one, made from North American hardwood

and tone wood. Which unplugs ALL of the tropical tonewood mystique as well.

As soon as I heard about this guitar, I wanted one.

 

Tropical tone wood is a vanishing resource, and so it is an obsolete issue IMHO.

The old guitars are still there to be bought by the fans of the traditional materials.

Some sound great, some don't. Just like now.