kidblast Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 I'm only looking into it all because we all wanna sound as best we can , some helpful answers here yea, we are all on the same journey.. Just as a side note Grunt, and I'm not saying that this is right for you, but just my experience.. adding a Tonedexter was probably one of the best investments I made for improving the sound of my acoustics. there is a curve to dialing it in, but it made a big difference for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 👍 Just googled it Give me a while until I get back off the floor 450 pounds 😲 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 On 6/12/2019 at 4:10 PM, blindboygrunt said: Thanks jinder Bright is not what I'm after The m80 sounds better on YouTube recordings The magmic not so good Then theres the rare earth blend 🤣🤣 Ah dear , no end to it is there In my experience, YouTube recordings are woefully inadequate in portraying live tone-it never, ever sounds anywhere near the same. If YouTube was to be taken at face value, the Sunrise pickup (as used by Richard Thompson, Lyle Lovett, Emmylou, Michael Hedges and dozens of others known for their immaculate live tone...and me too 🙈) would be consigned to the bin of uselessness...I haven't heard a single YouTube recording that even comes close to the real sound of the pickup, or indeed sounds half decent. In real world use, I find the Sunrise to be immensely musical and responsive, one of the most enjoyable pickups I've ever used and, whilst not the most pure of acoustic replications tone wise, it's a terrific guitar sound. By the time it's been put through a preamp/mixer/speaker and into a room, it's scarcely recognisable from the YouTube version, which usually is the pickup plugged straight into an interface and a DAW, which of course isn't how these pickups are intended to be used at all. The MagMic, in similar real-world non-YouTube applications, is very enjoyable and versatile. The MagMic wins out over the Rare Earth Blend (another very good pickup) by virtue of the adjustable polepieces, which can be wound up for a more immediate attack and a more "electric" sound, and wound down for a more warm tone. This is also extremely useful for dialling in string balance, something I've never found to be to my taste with the Rare Earth Humbucker or Blend (unwound strings are always too hot and "pingy" compared to the wound wires, although this issue doesn't occur with the Rare Earth Single Coil for some reason). The Baggs M1/M1A and M80 are very good pickups, don't get me wrong, I just find they sound a little muddled. The body sensor element is a good idea and a very clever design, but to me (and everyone else's take on this may be entirely different!) A direct amplification of wood wobbling around isn't necessarily a preferable aural element to air moving as captured by a condenser mic, and whilst the body sensor adds an extra dimension, it doesn't do so as musically as a mic, in my opinion If Baggs brought out an M80 style pickup with the option to blend in/out the body sensor AND a mic (on a separate blend control) I would be first in the queue for that beast. Triple source and SO much versatility in one package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, blindboygrunt said: 👍 Just googled it Give me a while until I get back off the floor 450 pounds 😲 I know, had the same effect on me when I first started looking into these. had to wait for the right time to "strike"... but I will say, it's pretty much genius... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, kidblast said: I'm only looking into it all because we all wanna sound as best we can , some helpful answers here yea, we are all on the same journey.. Just as a side note Grunt, and I'm not saying that this is right for you, but just my experience.. adding a Tonedexter was probably one of the best investments I made for improving the sound of my acoustics. there is a curve to dialing it in, but it made a big difference for me. You got the tonedexter my friend... maybe a seperate thread would be called for, for a review - what mic do you use for it? Edited June 13, 2019 by billroy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Plus ONE for the Tonedexter, well make it Plus 50. But it is not what BBG asked about.... Another approach that is very popular lately is singing and playing into an (expensive) Edwina - Ear Trumpet Labs condenser mic: http://www.eartrumpetlabs.com/products/microphones/edwina BluesKing777. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 15 hours ago, billroy said: You got the tonedexter my friend... maybe a seperate thread would be called for, for a review - what mic do you use for it? I think BK has covered the TD in other threads, in fact, he was my main mentor when it first arrived. (Thanks BK!) the best results so far was using an AKG condenser (c2000B) Dynamics work, not as good. I still want to try some other mics. My kid has a some high end mics for his studio to try, just haven't had time to get over there and see how they do. The over all experience, it makes your guitar sound more like "your guitar" It's by far more natural sounding, you can loose the "quack"and harshness of the UST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 13 hours ago, BluesKing777 said: Another approach that is very popular lately is singing and playing into an (expensive) Edwina - Ear Trumpet Labs condenser mic: I think I'm going to get one of those when I sell my Mesa/Boogie ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriv58 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 They sre good- 3 years ago i bought the myrtle, which is close in specs to edwina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, kidblast said: I think BK has covered the TD in other threads, in fact, he was my main mentor when it first arrived. (Thanks BK!) the best results so far was using an AKG condenser (c2000B) Dynamics work, not as good. I still want to try some other mics. My kid has a some high end mics for his studio to try, just haven't had time to get over there and see how they do. The over all experience, it makes your guitar sound more like "your guitar" It's by far more natural sounding, you can loose the "quack"and harshness of the UST. Thanks KB! Not much of a mentor, I’m afraid, still working things out myself....more of an enabler!😎 But Tonedexter, oh Tonedexter! I have had you for a year and a half and like anything, schitt in gives schitt out. It is NOT designed to work with mag soundhole pickups, sorry BBG. But...when I bought my latest guitar, my Taylor 717e, I got the onboard pickup version after conferring with some other Tonedexter users who said the Taylor ES2 system is very much like a K&K but with an inbuilt preamp and volume, bass, treble controls, and they have had success with the pickup and Tonedexter. Some of you won’t want to know, but the sounds I am getting with this combination, plus 18 months of trial and error, are very pleasing indeed. As promised by the maker, it is the sound of my guitar through a mic....but with no mic after the initial setup. Just plug my guitar in to Tonedexter and run direct to a mixer or my acoustic amp. It is still slightly electric sounding, but very, very good. I am also enjoying Tonedexter’s tone controls - they actually work and are useful! It is a great, great solution to get rid of the harsh piezo sound of pickups in the vein of the Fishman Aura systems, but with the ability to make soundfiles for YOUR guitar with YOUR mic - the Aura system mainly has the well known brands and models in their sound gallery and you download what they made. Except the Taylor ES2 pickup system is quite usable stock standard plugged direct to a mixer, but just adding a couple of percent of Tonedexter image file in a blend is enough to make the sound very real. Aura needed at least 30 - 40%, YMMV! I am extremely pleased! BluesKing777. Edited June 14, 2019 by BluesKing777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 52 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said: Thanks KB! Not much of a mentor, I’m afraid, still working things out myself....more of an enabler!😎 But Tonedexter, oh Tonedexter! I have had you for a year and a half and like anything, schitt in gives schitt out. It is NOT designed to work with mag soundhole pickups, sorry BBG. But...when I bought my latest guitar, my Taylor 717e, I got the onboard pickup version after conferring with some other Tonedexter users who said the Taylor ES2 system is very much like a K&K but with an inbuilt preamp and volume, bass, treble controls, and they have had success with the pickup and Tonedexter. Some of you won’t want to know, but the sounds I am getting with this combination, plus 18 months of trial and error, are very pleasing indeed. As promised by the maker, it is the sound of my guitar through a mic....but with no mic after the initial setup. Just plug my guitar in to Tonedexter and run direct to a mixer or my acoustic amp. It is still slightly electric sounding, but very, very good. I am also enjoying Tonedexter’s tone controls - they actually work and are useful! It is a great, great solution to get rid of the harsh piezo sound of pickups in the vein of the Fishman Aura systems, but with the ability to make soundfiles for YOUR guitar with YOUR mic - the Aura system mainly has the well known brands and models in their sound gallery and you download what they made. Except the Taylor ES2 pickup system is quite usable stock standard plugged direct to a mixer, but just adding a couple of percent of Tonedexter image file in a blend is enough to make the sound very real. Aura needed at least 30 - 40%, YMMV! I am extremely pleased! BluesKing777. No need to apologise I have a under saddle pickup in my gigging guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 Hey BK Tonedexter vs spectrum aura Do they work in the same way ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 29 minutes ago, blindboygrunt said: Hey BK Tonedexter vs spectrum aura Do they work in the same way ?? Ha ha, do you really want to ask that? I looked it up on their site - Tonedexter uses a wavemap, which is transformation filter known as an IR (Impulse Response). I kid you not, BBG. The Aura would be a similar thing. But it is really a software made comparison of the EQ of your guitar’s pickup sound and the EQ of your guitar’s sound through your mic....then it is saved in the machine for use later when you want it. Like using a Graphic EQ with many thousands of adjustments.. But having said all that, the Tonedexter is also a preamp/DI and a very nice quality unit. You wouldn’t buy it for this reason, but once I owned it, I found you can use the preamp without using the soundfile thingy. It is a very ‘smooth’ preamp and my Baggs M80 and Seymour Duncan soundhole pickup and others like it, all benefit from running through the preamp. (With the soundfiles OFF). And I also enjoy the extra controls if I run those unmentionable here guitars I have through this. Just add water. (Reverb). And now the killer salesman punch, kidding - the K&K sounds great just run through it too! Also without the soundfile. I always get a bassy, boomy sound if I run a K&K direct to an amp or a mixer, but the bass and treble knobs on the Tonedexter turned down (cut) a whole quarter turn and there we are! A usable, to me, K&K sound. If I turn on the soundfiles, I also don’t need much percentage with K&K pickups to be improved by Tonedexter. Undersaddle pickups need higher percentage soundfile to hide the awful piezo quack. Tonedexter works beautifully for these. BluesKing777. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 😐😨🤦♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, blindboygrunt said: 😐😨🤦♂️ You asked! Ho ho. It is harder to explain than use. You plug your guitar with pickup in one plug, and plug your mic in the other plug, put on your headphones, play while the gadget listens and does the magic trick, you listen back to it and if you like it, save it. Play it. So if I was gigging tonight, what would I take, you ask? Easiest is to take for an open mic would be one of my three Maton acoustic- electrics. They currently have one of the world’s best live pickup systems which includes an undersaddle pickup and an internal mic plus controls on the side of the guitar. Just adding a small amount of mic allows me to play ‘real’. Direct to a PA. Now if I had my own gig or more time to setup a power board, I would take one of my other beautiful guitars with a big fat neck or whatever the mood struck me, as long as it has a pickup to run through Tonedexter. The rest stay home. BluesKing777. Edited June 14, 2019 by BluesKing777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 21 hours ago, scriv58 said: They sre good- 3 years ago i bought the myrtle, which is close in specs to edwina. Very cool. So you like it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriv58 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Yes i like it but never use it- the zoom h4n really suits my purpose. Sometimes i have more money than sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 Can I have it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 14 hours ago, blindboygrunt said: Can I have it ? I live closer than you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, Murph said: I live closer than you... I thought you wanted the Edwina, not Myrtle, wouldn't want you to settle... and I live closer than Grunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatgumbino Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 On 6/13/2019 at 6:26 AM, Murph said: Quiet? This News Years Eve. show had a crowd of over 400, there were 5 Bands and we followed a classic rock thing. There is no pickup on this 1933 Gibson mandolin. There was a row of monitors in front of us with 15's and horns that was nearly 30 feet wide. Nobody was quiet, it was extremely LOUD and the monitors were loud as well. ZERO FEEDBACK. None... It takes a little time to dial in monitors when you use mics, but people do it ALL THE TIME. Chris Thile, Milk Carton Kids, Dave and Gillian, David Lindley, the list is legendary. It just cheeses me off when people on Forums insist that it's impossible to use mics live because of feedback. You just have to work a little more. Thanks for this info. Most of what I've read has poo-poo'd the idea of solely mic'g for gigs. You have a Bose L1 Compact, right? Have you used it successfully with mic'd acoustics and vocals for gigs? Would a single condenser mic for guitar and vocals work with the L1C or is it a recipe for feedback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 8 hours ago, thegreatgumbino said: Thanks for this info. Most of what I've read has poo-poo'd the idea of solely mic'g for gigs. You have a Bose L1 Compact, right? Have you used it successfully with mic'd acoustics and vocals for gigs? Would a single condenser mic for guitar and vocals work with the L1C or is it a recipe for feedback? Yes, I've used the L1-Compact with a Yamaha mixer with a duo with 2 guitars, also swapping out mandolin, resonator, harmonica and 2 voices. I would use the SM57 for my guitar, or mandolin, or resonator. An SM58 each for vocals and my partner would use his ust in his Martin. I've never owned a Condenser mic, but will at some point. I think they could be a problem in a small place with a lot of noise. I think that's why a lot of people who insist on mic'ing still use the SM57. Lately I've been using a Bose S-1, which has 2 mic inputs, and lining out to the L1-Compact, but I'm in a sort of hiatus and mostly playing at home. The few times I've used that setup live it has been outstanding. I put the S-1 on the floor tilted back behind me opposite the L1-Compact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatgumbino Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Thanks for your real world feedback, Murph. I appreciate it. I have a J45 Vintage (no p/u) and have been back and forth on going amplified and whether or not to drill the endpin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 19 hours ago, thegreatgumbino said: Thanks for your real world feedback, Murph. I appreciate it. I have a J45 Vintage (no p/u) and have been back and forth on going amplified and whether or not to drill the endpin. I've got the same guitar and put a K&K in there. It's the best set up - don't allow anyone to sway you otherwise. I do prefer the sound of mic'ing it when I have the time to do the set up etc... but I'm an open mic hero at best, and just for convenience being able to plug in quick for my 3 (rocking) songs is a nice convenience. You can go with a soundhole pickup, but most attract hi gravity situations and want to put dings in the top of your guitar when putting it in and out and you accidentally drop it while thinking about kidblast. PS - nice guitar 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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