Change the 14th Amendment

[Californiaman]

Some folks in my town are advocating a change in the 14th Amendment, as well as enforcement of deportation laws.

If you're not familiar with this amendment it is basically become known as the citizenship clause. If you are an illegal immigrant to the United States (say a woman from Mexico) and give birth to a child in this country, your child is automatically a United States citizen.

This has been challenged and ruled upon by the Supreme Court at least three times.

The argument people are using is that illegal immigrants are taxing our welfare system (especially in California) to the point of bankruptcy.

[Homz]

So what's your opinion Californeyman?

[Californiaman]

Homz I think we should make sure that if they are going to stay in the United States for the benefit of their children who were born here, then we should make sure that they have the necessary tools to help put them on the right track to citizenship.

That's right, educate the parents and get them moving towards citizenship. And there needs to be consequences for noncompliance. They need to return to the country of their origin if they are not learning how to pass the citizenship test.

Many of these men and women who have come to this country are productive members of our society. Even the Hispanics who have been here for some time agree that illegal immigrants serve a valuable purpose. How many other ethnicities do you see working in the fields? In my neck of the woods it's all Mexicans working in the fields.

[Homz]

That's who's working the fields in my wooded neck too.

 

But, what of the children. The parents are illegal. The children is what I thought the point was. Did I miss the point?

[Dynadude]

The point is, that these illegals are intentionally taking advantage of the law. They know that if they enter the country and give birth here, it gives them legal entitlement to welfare and other forms of government assistance, and allows them to remain here unchallenged.

 

I say, if the parent is illegal, the child is illegal. It's not like they are refugees, or that they are here on work permits, or that they are here legally and going through the process of becoming a citizen. They have illegally entered the country. Litterally broke our laws just to gain entry. That alone should negate any further rights they would normally have as a citizen.

[Homz]

The point is' date=' that these illegals are intentionally taking advantage of the law. They know that if they enter the country and give birth here, it gives them legal entitlement to welfare and other forms of government assistance, and allows them to remain here unchallenged.

 

I say, if the parent is illegal, the child is illegal. It's not like they are refugees, or that they are here on work permits, or that they are here legally and going through the process of becoming a citizen. They have illegally entered the country. Litterally broke our laws just to gain entry. That alone should negate any further rights they would normally have as a citizen.[/quote']

 

I intentionally take advantage of laws too. You know like taking all the tax deductions I am legally eligible for. I took advantage of the laws on citizenship when I crossed the border legally with my two internationally adopted kids. They then legally became U.S. citizens.

 

I took legal advantage of the laws of Viet Nam when I legally adopted my kids in Viet Nam.

 

Of coarse they are taking advantage of the laws. I don't understand how anyone can not want a naturally born American to be an American. That sort of goes against the whole concept of being the nation of the great huddled masses.

 

Now if you want to deport the parents that's a different point. I could understand your argument. The kids were born here. They didn't ask to be born here. Neither did you or I, but we were and they are every bit the Americans that we are regardless of the status, ethnicity, country of origin, or intentions of their parents.

[Dynadude]

 

I intentionally take advantage of laws too. You know like taking all the tax deductions I am legally eligible for. I took advantage of the laws on citizenship when I crossed the border legally with my two internationally adopted kids. They then legally became U.S. citizens.

 

I took legal advantage of the laws of Viet Nam when I legally adopted my kids in Viet Nam.

 

Of coarse they are taking advantage of the laws. I don't understand how anyone can not want a naturally born American to be an American. That sort of goes against the whole concept of being the nation of the great huddled masses.

 

Now if you want to deport the parents that's a different point. I could understand your argument. The kids were born here. They didn't ask to be born here. Neither did you or I' date=' but we were and they are every bit the Americans that we are regardless of the status, ethnicity, country of origin, or intentions of their parents. [/quote']

 

Are you just in the mood to argue, or do you actually think your statements have credibility in this discussion?

 

No. I don't don't think the illegal children should be granted citizenship. They were used as a means of skirting a law that helps to keep out undesirables.

 

There are reasons for keeping out certain people. It's not like this country can take in every bozo on earth that wants a free ride, and that's what most illegals do in this situation. They have the kids, get into the system, and sponge for all they're worth, and then have more kids.

 

I would be agreeable to the illegals giving up the children to the state, and then deporting the parents. I will never go along with allowing them to stay after breaking the law to gain entry. There are many people who are trying to get into this country the right way, and allowing the law breakers to remain here is a slap in their face.

[Thundergod]

I will say this (that I know because I used to have a person working inn my house that did this).

 

They go to the states pregnant (with or without a tourist visa) so that they can HATCH in there and their kid is automatically a US citizen... Some of you might ask why... well because that way that little guy wont have any trouble bailing from his country and going there to cause trouble at your expense (when he was born, his mom probably didnt have any money so your government took care of it using your tax money; when he gets to be 15 and starts robbibng stores he will get shot and when he goes to the hospital they will take care of him with your tax money; then in jail he will get free food, free bed and free sex, which is more'n anyone can say they get in their country; and then when his lover stabs him in jail they fix him with your taxes; then he dies... and the govt takes care of everything with your taxes).

[RudyH]

The only two amendments that have any teeth left are the first and second. The others are just words on paper because the government has found ways to circumvent them.

[Californiaman]

The only two amendments that have any teeth left are the first and second. The others are just words on paper because the government has found ways to circumvent them.

 

Not the government, but the courts. The courts have ruled that if they are born here, they're automatically a citizen, regardless of the citizenship status of their mother.

[KSG_Standard]

Caliman, if the folks that want to change, repeal or alter the 14th ammendment can get it done according to the the constitutional rules, then that means that the majority of Americans and American politicians will have voted on it and agreed...I don't think they'll succeed. It might be better and cheaper for all of us to just give California to Mexico...

[djroge1]

So what are you saying? Are you saying we need a change? Perhaps a Change We Can Believe In!

[Californiaman]

Caliman' date=' if the folks that want to change, repeal or alter the 14th ammendment can get it done according to the the constitutional rules, then that means that the majority of Americans and American politicians will have voted on it and agreed...I don't think they'll succeed. It might be better and cheaper for all of us to just give California to Mexico...[/quote']

 

Esta Bien. Viva la Raz hermano!

[The Mick]

Theres no good TEX-MEX food in North Carolina it's not fair

[FirstMeasure]

Caliman' date=' if the folks that want to change, repeal or alter the 14th ammendment can get it done according to the the constitutional rules, then that means that the majority of Americans and American politicians will have voted on it and agreed...I don't think they'll succeed. It might be better and cheaper for all of us to just give California to Mexico...[/quote']

You'd give Mexico the 7th Largest economy in the World? That would bring them up to 1st world status, what with the Naval, Air force, Army, and Marine Bases that are here. And I'm not sure Middle American could do without our Fedreal Tax money. You'd possibly move down to 2nd world status.

 

Attractive Proposition, Amigo.

[KSG_Standard]

You'd give Mexico the 7th Largest economy in the World? That would bring them up to 1st world status' date=' what with the Naval, Air force, Army, and Marine Bases that are here. And I'm not sure Middle American could do without our Fedreal Tax money. You'd possibly move down to 2nd world status.

 

Attractive Proposition, Amigo.[/quote']

 

Mexican's wouldn't have any reason to come to America any more, Hollywood would be in another country instead of "like another country", The largest state debt in America would belong to Mexico instead of us, Nancy Pelowsi would be out of the congress and Arnold and Barbara Streisand would become Mexican citizens....it all sounds pretty good to me.

[FirstMeasure]

Some folks in my town are advocating a change in the 14th Amendment' date=' as well as enforcement of deportation laws.

If you're not familiar with this amendment it is basically become known as the citizenship clause. If you are an illegal immigrant to the United States (say a woman from Mexico) and give birth to a child in this country, your child is automatically a United States citizen.

This has been challenged and ruled upon by the Supreme Court at least three times.

The argument people are using is that illegal immigrants are taxing our welfare system (especially in California) to the point of bankruptcy.[/quote']

This is where I start to sound like a conservative, and why I don' believe in "Blue Plate" Politics.

 

There's no reason our country should be stealing the children of other countries. If the child was Concieved on foriegn soil, by foriegn parents, That Child should be a citizen of that foriegn country. If one of the Parents in a U.S. Citizen then we start talking citizenship.

 

I fully believe that we need stricter imigration laws, and sterner punishment for Illeagal Imigrants and Employers who employ them.

[AXE®]

The trouble all began with this guy

 

[The Mick]

Show us your badges

[KSG_Standard]

This is where I start to sound like a conservative' date=' and why I don' believe in "Blue Plate" Politics.

 

There's no reason our country should be stealing the children of other countries. If the child was Concieved on foriegn soil, by foriegn parents, That Child should be a citizen of that foriegn country. If one of the Parents in a U.S. Citizen then we start talking citizenship.

 

I fully believe that we need stricter imigration laws, and sterner punishment for Illeagal Imigrants and Employers who employ them.[/quote']

 

Sound more like a "populist" position, rather than a conservative position...

 

The 14th Ammendment states:

Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

 

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

 

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

 

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

[FirstMeasure]

 

Mexican's wouldn't have any reason to come to America any more' date=' Hollywood would be in another country instead of "like another country", The largest state debt in America would belong to Mexico instead of us, Nancy Pelowsi would be out of the congress and Arnold and Barbara Streisand would become Mexican citizens....it all sounds pretty good to me.[/quote']

I forget Middle Americans sometimes think Hollywood is a real place. You realize that Hollywood is a Suburb of L.A. and with the exception of a few award shows, nothing in the movie industry is actually made in Hollywood, thanks to Very local politics, that I don't care to get into on this thread. Just so I know where you're coming from, describe to me what you think "Hollywood" is.

 

But seriously, do you think that the debt we're in would stay if we became mexico. It wouldn't become Mexico, it would become california. We'd pay down the debt with the money we'd save on Federal Taxes, and with the untapped oil and steele resources, we'd lead the world in trade within 10 years. With San Diego, San Fransisco, Sant Barbara, Monterey, and so many important Trading Ports I can't list them all. Camp Pendlton, Edwards AFB, 29 Palms Marine Base. Not to mention March, and a few of the recently closed bases we could reinstate. go look at a Map and see howmuch of the nations comereceyou'd throw away, just to be mean.

 

I could say, We should just give Texas to Mexico since you have more illegal imigrants than California, but I don't want to loose Dallas, Texas City, Galvoston, the Alimo or even Crawford. Ya Wanna Know Why? They're Part Of The United States Of America, The Land That I Love,. It's too bad Conservatives don't Love this country the way I do.

[FirstMeasure]

 

Sound more like a "populist" position' date=' rather than a conservative position...

 

The 14th Ammendment states:

[i']Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

 

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

 

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

 

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. [/i]

You're right, I should have said Republican, not Conservative.

 

Thatks for cutting and pasting that bit there, It's not like I looked it up already or anything.

[KSG_Standard]

I forget Middle Americans sometimes think Hollywood is a real place. You realize that Hollywood is a Suburb of L.A. and with the exception of a few award shows' date=' nothing in the movie industry is actually made in Hollywood, thanks to Very local politics, that I don't care to get into on this thread. Just so I know where you're coming from, describe to me what you think "Hollywood" is. [b']I think that Hollywood is a suburb of L.A...and "a state of mind"[/b]

 

But seriously, do you think that the debt we're in would stay if we became mexico. It wouldn't become Mexico, it would become california. We'd pay down the debt with the money we'd save on Federal Taxes, and with the untapped oil and steele resources, we'd lead the world in trade within 10 years. With San Diego, San Fransisco, Sant Barbara, Monterey, and so many important Trading Ports I can't list them all. Camp Pendlton, Edwards AFB, 29 Palms Marine Base. Not to mention March, and a few of the recently closed bases we could reinstate. go look at a Map and see howmuch of the nations comereceyou'd throw away, just to be mean.

 

Why don't you start drilling now and help the rest of us pay down the debt? Why wait until your a Mexican? The taxes would be a wash...we wouldn't collect the income taxes from you, and you wouldn't collect the "stimulus" money and other pork from us. W

 

We'd take our equipment back, along with all of the non-native california troops and the funding to keep them all going...we'd be leaving the Mexicans some nice empty bases...

 

 

I could say, We should just give Texas to Mexico since you have more illegal imigrants than California, but I don't want to loose Dallas, Texas City, Galvoston, the Alimo or even Crawford. Ya Wanna Know Why? They're Part Of The United States Of America, The Land That I Love,. It's too bad Conservatives don't Love this country the way I do.

I think that I can speak for the rest of Texas when I say, we'd be glad to give up Crawford and College Station in return for Mexico taking Nancy Pelowsi, Barbara Boxer, Henry Waxman and Diane Feinstein.

 

So does this mean we have a deal?

[Californiaman]

Caliman' date=' if the folks that want to change, repeal or alter the 14th ammendment can get it done according to the the constitutional rules, then that means that the majority of Americans and American politicians will have voted on it and agreed...I don't think they'll succeed. It might be better and cheaper for all of us to just give California to Mexico...[/quote']

 

I fully understand that KSG.

Getting consensus on an amendment is next to impossible. Getting consensus on this amendment will be impossible.

[FirstMeasure]

Why don't you start drilling now and help the rest of us pay down the debt? Why wait until your a Mexican?

First of all, the country would be called California, and we can't drill in Mexico until it's part of California. But we'd put a stop to your Angle Drilling into Old Mexico, so there goes Texas' Economy. It's OK with me, I don't have anything against the citizens of Mexico, I'm not a flagrant racicst.

 

Hollywoods not a state of mind, its an industry, and Industry that's moved to Cananda. The Mentalitly you refer to is called "Trendy" by Californians and exists in New York, L.A., Dallas, Seattle, and just about any other Big Commerce City in America. It's easy to blanket a State with a word like Hollywood, but look at the Big Haired Rich Ladies in Dallas who tuck a toy poodle under their arm and hit the Rich shops. Looks a lot like what you'd call Hollywood. You're talking about a State that has Yosimite, red Woods, Lake Tahoe, Bug Sur, The Bread Basket. (Do you realize we don't need to import any food products from the rest of the U.S.), Valleys, Mountains, Wet Lands, Grass Lands, Deserts, you name it we got it, and it's world class. I understand your thinly masked envy. This is a Great and Beautiful State, I've driven through Texas, I'm sorry about the humidity.