asmith9509 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Just curious- those of you who have bought new Gibsons, did you encounter changes in tone that you attributed to break-in? How long did it take? Was it a gradual process? I've had my new J-45 for about three weeks. In that time I've replaced the strings and the bridge saddle (referenced in a different post). I have been playing it pretty heavily. So I played it for about 2 hours last night; about 45 minutes into it, I noticed that the tone had changed. It was not as bright or "zingy", but had that rich, woody "Gibson" tone that I always thought of when I heard a J-45. It seemed like the bass loosened up some, and the treble was a bit quieter. I have had plenty of nice guitars and I have definitely heard them break in, but it usually a gradual process. Surprised me to hear it change this dramatically, this early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Hmmmmmmmm.........I've had strings that took longer to break in than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmith9509 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Exactly- that's why I found it so odd. And I'm not saying that the tone was necessarily better; just different. I guess I'm trying to find the line between breaking in and breaking down (loose brace or something of the sort). This bad boy hung on the wall at the Guitar Center for a while before I bought it, and had definitely not been babied. It sounded and played too good to pass up, and I got a great deal on it so I figured what the heck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliangirl Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I don't know if it's just me or what but Magic just seems to have a more resonant sound these days, like an older guitar. She's a 2004; I've had her for 2 years this past February. It's just been in the past few months that she's really sort of opened up and come into herself. Gawd, that sounds so new-agey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I've had my new J-45 for about three weeks. In that time I've replaced the strings and the bridge saddle (referenced in a different post). I have been playing it pretty heavily. So I played it for about 2 hours last night; about 45 minutes into it' date=' I noticed that the tone had changed. It was not as bright or "zingy", but had that rich, woody "Gibson" tone that I always thought of when I heard a J-45. It seemed like the bass loosened up some, and the treble was a bit quieter.[/quote'] You just described the same phenomenon that I experience every time I put on some new strings and play 'em in for a while. This can vary from under an hour or so, to a few days time. I always find it amusing that I prefer not only the tone, but the feel (playability?) as well after they've settled down a bit. All the best, Guth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I've heard PLENTY big change over time with my new guitars! Imagine it depends on the instrument, but at least 5 years to have an idea of what you're going to get. In the first 5 years, there's been various leaps and bounds, followed by some setting in. My last new guitar- a Gibson- is almost at the two year point, and it's just opening up. I'm guessing at least 5 years to get close to it's potential. But after 10 years, I'd say things are close to set. (I was told this by John Greven, who must have worked on X thousand vintage martins and gibsons during his Gruhn years. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubee Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I don't really know, but have observed this: many guitars that have been in a case for some time sound better, to my ear, after an hour or so of playing. I hit 'em pretty hard. Old ones that were heavily played (and worn) seem not to benefit from it, old ones more "pristine" maybe do. Re: newer stuff: My '03 AJ sounded great when new, but just grows on me every time I pull it out, which is daily lately. I swear it sounds better every minute, but that's probably just me getting used to it's nuances again. I've got a '50s LG-2 and J-45 that sound about the same--very good--right outta the case. To my ear... I played a friends early '50s J-45 a few years back. He got it for a song. It was virtually unplayed, but very dried. Needed about total reglue: braces, everything (except neck set). I played it quite a bit when done and thought it sounded very "tight" compared to my whipped out similar era J-50. Looked pretty but I woudn't have bought it. Just me. I think playing 'em brings out maybe as much from the player as the guitar. You learn the darned thing, how to get the most from it if a good one. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfidl Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 This is an on going problem with ALL guitars. They are wood. And in most case the wood is not all the same (spruce, rosewood, ebony, etc. So like a bi-metal strip everything is constantly changing (just a little). I bought a new J-100 and it took about a year before I got down to a dull roar. (partly because I bought the WRONG strings and did some WRONG things.... and partly because the approved repair shop could not fix a flat tire). Depending on where you live climate can be a big factor (so can forced air heating/HVAC/windows. Wet/dry hot/cold are a BIG factors. So you have to learn to control those a little wherever you play (so don't play in a garage with the garage door open. Let the guitar GRADUALLY heat/cool and avoid big changes in humidity (I don't care what the brand name on the guitar -- it is wood) OK that don .. you need to decide if your fingers like light or heavier strings and you do need to know it takes about 3-4 days for new strings to stretch out (constant tuning -- use an electronic tuning device). loosen the string to below the not (flat) then tune UP to it .. not DOWN to it. Don't replace saddles (but note whether the string height is correct for your playing. Get a spark plug feeler gauge and make sure there is 1/2 the E string thickness (.25) clearance at the little E sting on the first fret .. hold down both E strings (1 at a time) at the first fret and the 12th fret and see if there is space (bend) anywhere in between -- if not it isn't a bent neck -- if there is it is probably correct. Check for consistent turing at the first fret and the 12th using the electronic tuner. If they are close don't screw with the saddle too much (unless the strings are too high for you playing. Last of ALL is NEUROSIS. You can get "buggy" (literally) about the problem. One time the band leader said "the guitar is OK just sit down and play it! None of these instruments are perfect -- the reed people are constantly spitting out reed and replacing them, flutes change tone when the heat up (from breath), trumpets change as they play them .. the physics of these thing is very "iffy." (a balancing act). So do nt let your mind play games with you. AND yes guitars change MORE in the 1st year and less as time goes on. But they never stop -- 10 and 20 years and they are still doing it. You are becoming aware of it. (when you first started playing you were not aware of it.). I DO SWITCH guitars when I start going nuts about one of them. (Bass players have the same nut-case issues about their basses) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 "AND yes guitars change MORE in the 1st year and less as time goes on." Ive also heard this cited. Golden ear guitars may have taken longer (adirondack /red spruce tops) so that may be a source on the thinking for a longer break-in period. ps did anyone mention that playing often speeds the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I have noticed this with my Gibson, but not my Taylors for some reason and not even so much on the Gibson anymore. When I first got it, it was a used but no played much guitar. It always seemed to take about 20 minutes to a half hour of playing before it started sounding more open. It's not that I didn't like the tone right out of the case, but it mellowed and sounded fuller after that time. Now it seems to come alive right away like my Taylors. Not sure why that was, but I attributed it to it being a newer, unplayed guitar and now it is a very well played in guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumps Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 given how short a time you've had the guitar, perhaps it's just your strings breaking in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmith9509 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Interesting perspectives here. I hadn't thought about the fact that I tried Pearse strings for the first time (always was a D'Addario guy before) and perhaps the strings just settle down differently than what I'm used to. I suspect maybe that is behind the sudden change. Anyways, I've had my Taylor 714ce for about 8 years; it has been my main instrument and has seen a lot of play. I've seen it through 2 fret jobs. I have noticed changes over time, but I think the tone may actually be a bit less to my liking than when I bought it. May be my ears, strings, or a hundred other things but it sounds kind of flabby and dead compared to early on. I may just be tiring of the cedar-topped sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 This is an on going problem with ALL guitars. They are wood. And in most case the wood is not all the same (spruce' date=' rosewood, ebony, etc. So like a bi-metal strip everything is constantly changing (just a little). I bought a new J-100 and it took about a year before I got down to a dull roar. (partly because I bought the WRONG strings and did some WRONG things.... and partly because the approved repair shop could not fix a flat tire). Depending on where you live climate can be a big factor (so can forced air heating/HVAC/windows. Wet/dry hot/cold are a BIG factors. So you have to learn to control those a little wherever you play (so don't play in a garage with the garage door open. Let the guitar GRADUALLY heat/cool and avoid big changes in humidity (I don't care what the brand name on the guitar -- it is wood) OK that don .. you need to decide if your fingers like light or heavier strings and you do need to know it takes about 3-4 days for new strings to stretch out (constant tuning -- use an electronic tuning device). loosen the string to below the not (flat) then tune UP to it .. not DOWN to it. Don't replace saddles (but note whether the string height is correct for your playing. Get a spark plug feeler gauge and make sure there is 1/2 the E string thickness (.25) clearance at the little E sting on the first fret .. hold down both E strings (1 at a time) at the first fret and the 12th fret and see if there is space (bend) anywhere in between -- if not it isn't a bent neck -- if there is it is probably correct. Check for consistent turing at the first fret and the 12th using the electronic tuner. If they are close don't screw with the saddle too much (unless the strings are too high for you playing. Last of ALL is NEUROSIS. You can get "buggy" (literally) about the problem. One time the band leader said "the guitar is OK just sit down and play it! None of these instruments are perfect -- the reed people are constantly spitting out reed and replacing them, flutes change tone when the heat up (from breath), trumpets change as they play them .. the physics of these thing is very "iffy." (a balancing act). So do nt let your mind play games with you. AND yes guitars change MORE in the 1st year and less as time goes on. But they never stop -- 10 and 20 years and they are still doing it. You are becoming aware of it. (when you first started playing you were not aware of it.). I DO SWITCH guitars when I start going nuts about one of them. (Bass players have the same nut-case issues about their basses) [/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfidl Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 On being nuts. If you were not nuts when you began playing guitars you will be after a couple of years. But you will not give it up and do something sane (like what? boating? golf? they are crazy too). Strings drive you crazy. You spent $3500 on a guitar (it is perfect) luthiers set it up and then you get into "what are the right strings for THIS guitar?" [Martin, Gibson, D'Addario, Elixir, Pearse .. OTHER?? Meade?] What is the right alloy? [80/20, PB, nickle, wound, not wound, flat wound, G-string] What is the right thickness [light, extra light, medium?] So this $8 item has TOO MANY VARIABLES. So now you ask people -- no two guitar players will tell you the same thing. Maybe different areas of the country make a difference (humid, dry, hot cold). So you go to your analyst and you say my G.D. strings are driving me nuts. and he says "I understand, go on ..." So he get $85, the luthier gets $65, you're spending tons of money on $8 strings. You know the old joke about three guys thrown into a prison and the engineer starts looking for ways to get out and the MBA tries to negotiate with the guard and the philosopher asks "why am I here?" I think guitar strings bring ALL of that out and MORE ... You look on You Tube and you hear Joe Pass, Anthony Wilson, Herb Ellis .. and they are smiling while playing (beautifully) and you wonder "how did he resolve the string issue?" He's happy. (How is that possible? He's playing a guitar??) Are they actors too? SO .. you can take it out of the case .. let it set for 20 minutes, B.S. with the other guys around the piano .. then sit down, tune it in, and play it and figure "what the h***, I had fun." [Then they wonder "why is he smiling? Maybe I should have taken guitar lessons. Those guitar players are always happy]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 3 or 4 days for new strings to stretch out? I always run my fingers up and down the fret board gently lifting ( stretching ) the strings out. Do this a couple times, tune to pitch , then install next string and repeat. They will only go out of tune a couple more times. After playing for an hour or so they are good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWilson Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 3 or 4 days for new strings to stretch out? I always run my fingers up and down the fret board gently lifting ( stretching ) the strings out. Do this a couple times' date=' tune to pitch , then install next string and repeat. They will only go out of tune a couple more times. After playing for an hour or so they are good to go. [/quote'] I do the same thing when I restring and get it into tune and playable within a couple minutes. That's not the real issue in this case. Even though they stay in tune, they are not going to sound the same after 4 or 5 days as they do when you put them on and start playing. One of the techs I see frequently told me that D'Addario EJ-16's, specifically, take about 5 days to play in, or settle down to where they are going to be until they go dead. Then start the process all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmith9509 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 3 or 4 days for new strings to stretch out? I always run my fingers up and down the fret board gently lifting ( stretching ) the strings out. Do this a couple times' date=' tune to pitch , then install next string and repeat. They will only go out of tune a couple more times. After playing for an hour or so they are good to go. [/quote'] For what it's worth- I don't think it's the strings actually "stretching out". Personally, I don't think steel strings stretch at all if you put them on correctly in the first place; at least not after the first 30 seconds or so. I think the tonal changes are more likely due to some corrosion, some crud from my fingertips, some wear from the frets... whatever. Just my opinion, for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmith9509 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 On being nuts. If you were not nuts when you began playing guitars you will be after a couple of years. But you will not give it up and do something sane (like what? boating? golf? they are crazy too). Strings drive you crazy. You spent $3500 on a guitar (it is perfect) luthiers set it up and then you get into "what are the right strings for THIS guitar?" [Martin' date= Gibson, D'Addario, Elixir, Pearse .. OTHER?? Meade?] What is the right alloy? [80/20, PB, nickle, wound, not wound, flat wound, G-string] What is the right thickness [light, extra light, medium?] So this $8 item has TOO MANY VARIABLES. So now you ask people -- no two guitar players will tell you the same thing. Maybe different areas of the country make a difference (humid, dry, hot cold). So you go to your analyst and you say my G.D. strings are driving me nuts. and he says "I understand, go on ..." So he get $85, the luthier gets $65, you're spending tons of money on $8 strings. You know the old joke about three guys thrown into a prison and the engineer starts looking for ways to get out and the MBA tries to negotiate with the guard and the philosopher asks "why am I here?" I think guitar strings bring ALL of that out and MORE ... You look on You Tube and you hear Joe Pass, Anthony Wilson, Herb Ellis .. and they are smiling while playing (beautifully) and you wonder "how did he resolve the string issue?" He's happy. (How is that possible? He's playing a guitar??) Are they actors too? SO .. you can take it out of the case .. let it set for 20 minutes, B.S. with the other guys around the piano .. then sit down, tune it in, and play it and figure "what the h***, I had fun." [Then they wonder "why is he smiling? Maybe I should have taken guitar lessons. Those guitar players are always happy]. Amusing rant. Ironically, even though I started the thread, I'm not one of those supposed golden-eared tone freaks, or museum collectors. Contrary to conventional wisdom, I never put my guitars in their cases unless they are leaving the house. The only guitar I have ever humidified is my super-high end classical, and only then because it is so lightly built. I sometimes go months between string changes, and I don't fret over scratches or nicks. My biggest weakness is that I simply love guitars. I am also an engineer, woodworker and relentless tinkerer which means I can never stop messing with my instruments. Constantly changing components, strings, action, etc. to see what the affects are. None of it stresses me out, and I'm not chasing some "ideal sound"- I love to play no matter how the guitar is acting that day. I just love messing with my instruments to see how it affects tone and playability. The interesting thing about all of this is that I don't really have the G.A.S. that I hear described so frequently on these boards; my instruments at home generally sound better and play better in my hands than the ones in the stores, because I'm not afraid to tweak them to my liking. Unfortunately I have been spending a lot more time ordering stuff from StewMac and LMI- guess you can't win in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfidl Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Being an engineer is a good "mindset" for guitars because the entire thing is an "engineering" problem (of producing sound in a guitar way). Engineers understand an "envelope" curve and a "bath tub curve." So there are comfort zones inside and envelope and problem zones outside an envelope. The balancing act is making wood and wife and hardware and (in some cases) electronics transmit a sound to an ear. I play with other instruments and they have the same "envelope" issues -- heating/cold, wet/dry .. to a greater or lesser degree depending on the instrument. Even the plastic keyboards (the bend and they heat and they have input jacks -- things go wrong). So the biggest part of this (other than reading the music and playing the tune) is the engineering in getting sound to an ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 For what it's worth- I don't think it's the strings actually "stretching out". Personally' date=' I don't think steel strings stretch at all if you put them on correctly in the first place; at least not after the first 30 seconds or so. I think the tonal changes are more likely due to some corrosion, some crud from my fingertips, some wear from the frets... whatever. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.[/quote'] True, when I say "stretching" I guess I really mean " gently pulling the strings so they become taught against the machinehead" so there is no longer any room for the strings to slip after you tune up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august_reader Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I hear my guitars opening up after about 20 minutes playing, but I always thought that was my fingers warming up as much as anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 It has been suggested that if you want to break your new guitar in quicker, set it on a stand next to a good speaker system with music playing while you're gone. You'll feel the sympathetic vibration of the music coming from the speakers in the wood of a good guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 It's really hard to say when my '03 J45RW opened up. But it did. I did several acoustic solo gigs with it, then got busy playing bass for the last leg of DOUBLE AUGHT. Then, went back to it and ended up getting busy playing electric lead again for the last few years. It's fun trying to figure it out though, isn't it? Murph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.