flubber, hmm.

[Hall]

I would like to put the flubber guard back on a Quilt Hummingbird as it is the factory issue.   Got tired of it  always lifting so removed and cleaned everything.  Now as I sit here, it's two days worth of trying everything I can think of to get it to lay flat, but nothing has worked.  It just keeps curling up no matter what I do.   I had planned on cutting a 3M backing and replacing it that way.   Anybody have some hands on with the thick soft guards  as to whether this will work?     *By the way the guard came off with absolutely no adhesive on its bottom .  I mean none to see or feel.  That is what actually concerns me.   What do you think?  Thanks!

[RBSinTo]

Hall,

By way of full disclosure I had no idea what you were talking about until I did some research, and found out what a "flubber" is.

I think you should speak directly with Gibson, to find out what material a flubber is made from, and what adhesive they recommend for re-gluing it . Failing that, try a reputable Luthier, rather than looking for what may not be good solutions here.

RBSinTo

[Dave F]

9 hours ago, Hall said:

I would like to put the flubber guard back on a Quilt Hummingbird as it is the factory issue.   Got tired of it  always lifting so removed and cleaned everything.  Now as I sit here, it's two days worth of trying everything I can think of to get it to lay flat, but nothing has worked.  It just keeps curling up no matter what I do.   I had planned on cutting a 3M backing and replacing it that way.   Anybody have some hands on with the thick soft guards  as to whether this will work?     *By the way the guard came off with absolutely no adhesive on its bottom .  I mean none to see or feel.  That is what actually concerns me.   What do you think?  Thanks!

I've never had a flubber guard but the 3M can't do any damage so I would go for it.  What's the worse that can happen?

[ALD323]

23 hours ago, Hall said:

I would like to put the flubber guard back on a Quilt Hummingbird as it is the factory issue.   Got tired of it  always lifting so removed and cleaned everything.  Now as I sit here, it's two days worth of trying everything I can think of to get it to lay flat, but nothing has worked.  It just keeps curling up no matter what I do.   I had planned on cutting a 3M backing and replacing it that way.   Anybody have some hands on with the thick soft guards  as to whether this will work?     *By the way the guard came off with absolutely no adhesive on its bottom .  I mean none to see or feel.  That is what actually concerns me.   What do you think?  Thanks!

I fixed my lifting 2013 Hummingbird guard in the following manner...and it worked. Like you I could not stand the peeling corners, so I removed it, cleaned it and the guitar top with naptha to remove all the old glue. Then I followed this procedure...

#1 lay the pickguard flat on a clean dry counter top.....

#2 use a hair dryer and blow it directly  onto the hummingbird guard till it "softens just enough to relax. "

#3 Flip the pickguard over from time to time as you heat it with the hair dryer. It wil need to get just hot enough to cause the curl to drop and begin to lay flat.

#4 Do not heat it to melting...It may need to be heated a few times and a little patience. Move the hair dryer evenly all around the entire pick guard heating it evenly, particularly on the curled up areas, the whole pick guard needs to relax and delflex from the even moving swirling heat of the dryer. .....and after the curl is FLAT, you apply the  3M sticker, it will say on and never peel off. Take special note that you do not melt it in any area. It will get very warm, if you need to stop to let it cool down do so...then reheat it again. I held the top of the hair dryer about an inch to two inches away, ...use plenty of light as you do this so you can monitor that it does not melt. As I said, when it begins to get hot enough to deflex....it will actually flatten before your eyes. Keep the hair dryer moving and not focused in a beam of heat, this will avoid all melting and make it just hot enough to flatten.

 #5 Immediately after heating it flat, (you will actually be able to see it deflex under the heat, and before it cools, place a heavy book on top of it. It will cool slowly and remain permanently flat. It will then be ready to re-install on your guitar.

...it will then STAY on the guitar permanently without curling or pulling off.   

****Please note that If you decide to re-apply  the pickguard without DEFLEXING it with the hair dryer first, it will pull up again from the guitar.  The hair dryer WILL cause it to deflex flat the instant it reaches the temperature to do so.  Immediately after heating it flat, and before it cools entirely, and do let it cool a bit, then place a heavy book on top of it for a while till it completely cools. It will cool slowly and remain permanently flat. It will then be ready to re-install on your guitar. Done correctly it will never curl again or pull up. Good luck..if u wish to reinstall your hummingbird pick guard..this is a guarenteed way to do so. I ordered a new one and it came with the same curls  so....I returned that one as it was a curled as the old one I took off and yet it was beand new.  and then  reinstalled the old one after de-flexing it...very easy to do...and it lasted for years and never pulled up again. Good luck. Let us know how it went!

Edited September 2, 2020 by ALD323
spell check

[docr]

12 hours ago, RBSinTo said:

Hall,

By way of full disclosure I had no idea what you were talking about until I did some research, and found out what a "flubber" is.

I think you should speak directly with Gibson, to find out what material a flubber is made from, and what adhesive they recommend for re-gluing it . Failing that, try a reputable Luthier, rather than looking for what may not be good solutions here.

RBSinTo

 

RBSinTo - be glad if you never had problems with "flubber" pickguards. My J45 (2017) and Hummingbird (2017) drive me crazy, edges are lifting whch look even worse on the Hummingbird due to the more complicated shape. Both have been removed and fixed again by an authorized Gibson service workshop - lifting again after some months, I have removed, cleaned and mounted the J45 pickguard by myself with the help of 3M tape (3M double sided sheets are not available here). And - it lifts again. This is really sad as both guitars are fine with the exception of the pickguards, beautiful to play and sound good, My other Gibsons have "flubber"pickguards which are not lifting or only some millimeters (SJ200) or have thin pickguards making no problems.

[docr]

4 hours ago, ALD323 said:

I fixed my lifting 2013 Hummingbird guard in the following manner...and it worked. Like you I could not stand the peeling corners, so I removed it, cleaned it and the guitar top with naptha to remove all the old glue. Then I followed this procedure...

#1 lay the pickguard flat on a clean dry counter top.....

#2 use a hair dryer and blow it directly  onto the hummingbird guard till it "softens just enough to relax. "

#3 Flip the pickguard over from time to time as you heat it with the hair dryer. It wil need to get just hot enough to cause the curl to drop and begin to lay flat.

#4 Do not heat it to melting...It may need to be heated a few times and a little patience. Move the hair dryer evenly all around the entire pick guard heating it evenly, particularly on the curled up areas, the whole pick guard needs to relax and delflex from the even moving swirling heat of the dryer. .....and after the curl is FLAT, you apply the  3M sticker, it will say on and never peel off. Take special not you do not melt it in any area. It will get very warm, if you need to stop to let it cool down do so...then reheat it again. I held the top of the hair dryer about and inch to two inches away, ...use plenty of light as you do this so you can monitor that it does not melt. As I said, when it begins to get hot enough to deflex....it will actually flatten before your eyes. Keep the hair dryer moving and not focused in a beam of heat, this will avoid all melting and make it just hot enough to flatten.

 #5 Immediately after heating it flat, (you will actually be able to see it deflex under the heat, and before it cools, place a heavy book on top of it. It will cool slowly and remain permanently flat. It will then be ready to re-install on your guitar.

...it will then STAY on the guitar permanently without curling or pulling off.   

****Please note that If you decide to re-apply  the pickguard without DEFLEXING it with the hair dryer first, it will pull up again from the guitar.  The hair dryer WILL cause it to deflex flat the instant it reaches the temperature to do so.  Immediately after heating it flat, and before it cools entirely, and do let it cool a bit, then place a heavy book on top of it for a while till it completely cools. It will cool slowly and remain permanently flat. It will then be ready to re-install on your guitar. Done correctly it will never curl again or pull up. Good luck..if u wish to reinstall your hummingbird pick guard..this is a guarenteed way to do so. I ordered a new one and it came with the same curls  so....I returned that one as it was a curled as the old one I took off and yet it was beand new.  and then  reinstalled the old one after de-flexing it...very easy to do...and it lasted for years and never pulled up again. Good luck. Let us know how it went!

 

Looks like a lot of work but if ALD323´s methode cures all tensions out of the material it will help. Will try this method - but this is a job for the winter.

The big question for me still is why Gibson has used this type of pickguards for years knowing about the problems.  The price? Would it be really significantly lower for a flubber pickguard? Maybe for the Humminbird type.

[RBSinTo]

3 hours ago, docr said:

 

RBSinTo - be glad if you never had problems with "flubber" pickguards. My J45 (2017) and Hummingbird (2017) drive me crazy, edges are lifting whch look even worse on the Hummingbird due to the more complicated shape. Both have been removed and fixed again by an authorized Gibson service workshop - lifting again after some months, I have removed, cleaned and mounted the J45 pickguard by myself with the help of 3M tape (3M double sided sheets are not available here). And - it lifts again. This is really sad as both guitars are fine with the exception of the pickguards, beautiful to play and sound good, My other Gibsons have "flubber"pickguards which are not lifting or only some millimeters (SJ200) or have thin pickguards making no problems.

Docr,

Never owned a guitar with a flubber pickguard.

However, three years ago the pickguard on my then 43 year old D-28 curled, and was replaced by excellent Luthiers here in Toronto. I never, even for a moment considered trying to make the repair or replacement myself.

No problems with its guard before or since.

My j45 is  19 years old and its guard shows no signs of lifting.

Just lucky I guess.

RBSinTo

[docr]

18 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

Docr,

Never owned a guitar with a flubber pickguard.

However, three years ago the pickguard on my then 43 year old D-28 curled, and was replaced by excellent Luthiers here in Toronto. I never, even for a moment considered trying to make the repair or replacement myself.

No problems with its guard before or since.

My j45 is  19 years old and its guard shows no signs of lifting.

Just lucky I guess.

RBSinTo

 

Ok, if a pickguard decides to curl after 43 years its another thing. I would be very carful with an old guitar, too. The "flubber" things can be removed quite easily with the help of naphta and some patience. Your J45 surely has a better quality pickguard, I have followed a lot of discussions about the "flubber" problem in forums (or fora - what is the correct plural in English?) and it seems to be a problem of younger guitars.

[olie]

I've got a 2014 with the thinner guard and it's just fine.A year or so after '14 they switched to the "flubber" variety. It must have been a money or availabilty issue because you know the old adage -"if it ain't broke..." Makes you wonder.

[kidblast]

My J200 guard keeps pooping up in one spot.  I keep pushing it down.  Wish the company would "fix" this.  it's annoying.

[docr]

11 minutes ago, kidblast said:

My J200 guard keeps pooping up in one spot.  I keep pushing it down.  Wish the company would "fix" this.  it's annoying.

 

kidblast,

Very good descrition! We all are pushing parts of our pickguards back - after opening the case, during playing - whenever it pops up again. I am trying to hide this defect as other guitar pickers playing with me have (often much cheaper) guitars without this problems and I do not want discussions about prices, Gibson quality etc.  - you know what I mean  - I love my Gibson guitars, but a sustainable solution of this problem would be helpful.

[kidblast]

5 minutes ago, docr said:

 

kidblast,

Very good descrition! We all are pushing parts of our pickguards back - after opening the case, during playing - whenever it pops up again. I am trying to hide this defect as other guitar pickers playing with me have (often much cheaper) guitars without this problems and I do not want discussions about prices, Gibson quality etc.  - you know what I mean  - I love my Gibson guitars, but a sustainable solution of this problem would be helpful.

I was considering a Holter Pickgaurd, but he is not able to do the etchings yet.  He was very helpful and responsive tho..  he plans to try to do it

he pointed me to Fox Guitars web site..  they have one..  but it's expensive. ($299)

https://www.fox-guitars.com/catalog/gibson-j-200-sj-200-c1939-1954-dark-tortoise-engraved-painted-guitar-pickguard

Edited September 2, 2020 by kidblast

[fortyearspickn]

46 minutes ago, docr said:

 

kidblast,

Very good descrition! We all are pushing parts of our pickguards back - after opening the case, during playing - whenever it pops up again. I am trying to hide this defect as other guitar pickers playing with me have (often much cheaper) guitars without this problems and I do not want discussions about prices, Gibson quality etc.  - you know what I mean  - I love my Gibson guitars, but a sustainable solution of this problem would be helpful.

 

I think ALD323's detailed description of what he did, which worked - is sustainable.   And,  if you take one of your 2 2017s to a Gibson authorized repair person (not just someone who says' they're a 'luthier')  you would have some assurance they'd do the job right.  Call and ask what they'll do and how long it's guaranteed not to curl.  I'm guessing they'd do what ALD did. 

[RBSinTo]

2 hours ago, docr said:

 

Ok, if a pickguard decides to curl after 43 years its another thing. I would be very carful with an old guitar, too. The "flubber" things can be removed quite easily with the help of naphta and some patience. Your J45 surely has a better quality pickguard, I have followed a lot of discussions about the "flubber" problem in forums (or fora - what is the correct plural in English?) and it seems to be a problem of younger guitars.

Docr,

I believe "fora" is correct, but not used as much as "forums".

Still not clear on what the "flubber" is.

I understand it to be an additional flexible, transparent layer that is applied over the "hard" guard and protects the engraved/etched/molded designs on it.

Is that correct?

Then perhaps you can explain why there are designs on a pickguard in the first place.

RBSinTo

 

[ALD323]

2 hours ago, docr said:

 

kidblast,

Very good descrition! We all are pushing parts of our pickguards back - after opening the case, during playing - whenever it pops up again. I am trying to hide this defect as other guitar pickers playing with me have (often much cheaper) guitars without this problems and I do not want discussions about prices, Gibson quality etc.  - you know what I mean  - I love my Gibson guitars, but a sustainable solution of this problem would be helpful.

Follow my description above and your lift guard will be fixed better than if you order a new one. As I stated, I ordered a brand new Gibson Hummingbird pick guard from a company who carried them...it cost $150.00...and it arrived more curled than the one I took off...sent it back for refund..then used the old curled pick guard and applied the method described above.....it workedperfectly and held for many years before I traded it for a new Hummingbird...which will likely peel off also..at least I know how to fix this permanently now....it is not hard to do, and the guard picture will not fade or warp if done carefully.  Below is a picture of the restored pick guard on my old 2013 Hummingbird...the only reason I traded it was because I wanted the Heritage cherry red color which was what I wanted instead of the honey color....non the less I re-installed the non curled pick guard and traded it, the buyer had not the fainted idea the guard had come off and was reinstalled..it looked just like new...just be careful to reinstall it exactly over the faded shadow of where it came off, and it will be..and remain perfect.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by ALD323

[Hall]

Thanks ALD323, and all!   I followed ALD323's directions to the exact, and used 3M 9474LE (300LS) double-sided adhesive.  The guard finally relaxed, went flat and with weight stayed that way at the time of the pattern cut and then the application.  All looks well so far, down tight and clean.  Time will tell.   I recommend  really sticking to ALD323's directions.  Helped me stay on procedure with order, and that's a good feeling!    The specific 3M adhesive I noted above  is their best product for just this sort of action.    Much appreciated , ALD323!

[ALD323]

3 minutes ago, Hall said:

Thanks ALD323, and all!   I followed ALD323's directions to the exact, and used 3M 9474LE (300LS) double-sided adhesive.  The guard finally relaxed, went flat and with weight stayed that way at the time of the pattern cut and then the application.  All looks well so far, down tight and clean.  Time will tell.   I recommend  really sticking to ALD323's directions.  Helped me stay on procedure with order, and that's a good feeling!    The specific 3M adhesive I noted above  is their best product for just this sort of action.    Much appreciated , ALD323!

You are very welcome!  Just glad I could help. There is now finally a real fix for lifting flubberware guards.

Edited September 2, 2020 by ALD323