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leaning tuning pegs?


egoidealmusic

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Hi folks,

I've been playing for years but have never been able to afford a Gibson, so it was mostly vintage Epiphones (I do have some really great ones).  Just recently got a new job where I could afford a Gibson and got a 50's J-45 (not from the actual 50s but one of the new ones modeled on that as I really like the big chunk necks).  Had it for about 2 weeks and noticed the tuning peg grommets pulling up and the pegs pulling forward.  I don't live near a Gibson authorized repair shop so the folks at Gibson had me send it to their shop in Nashville.  Called yesterday and was told they've confirmed my diagnosis but no word on if they can repair or need to replace.  Love the guitar (amazing tone) but am concerned as this seems pretty off.  Am wondering if anyone else has had similar issues, and thoughts about how Gibson might handle it.

tuning pegs.jpg

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Thanks for the reassurance, Dave!  It had been three weeks with no word until I called so I was starting to get tense.  I absolutely love that guitar (first time out of the case it felt like it had been in my hands for decades) and hope they can fix instead of replace as the tone is really amazing.  I've been playing old ones in various shops for years and knew I couldn't afford that, but of all the new ones I've played this one came closest to that kind of tone.

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A bent shaft is easy enough to straighten.  But as the guitar is under warranty let them deal with it.  As long as the tuners  still work though I usually just leave them be.

And I still keep a NYC-made Epi flattop around.  The place would just not feel like home without at least one ready to be picked up and played.  It is not that they did anything terribly well but sounded so good trying.  And finicky they ain't.

Edited by zombywoof
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Thanks, Zomby.  In addition to the shaft looking bent, the grommets were lifting in the back and digging into the wood in the front.  It almost seems like the holes were just drilled too large so everything was loose.  When I first noticed it I detuned and pushed them back down, but as soon as it was back up to tune it was the same thing (and no, I didn't put on super heavy strings or anything that might cause it).  And I definitely love my Epis, but have been wanting a Gibson since I was in my early 20s (almost 50 now), so was thrilled to finally get this.  Again, hope it can be fixed instead of replaced!

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I would suggest this is a peghead drilled out sloppily, and if their fix involves trying to fill and re-drill, or some other 'band-aid' fix, you have a conversation about what kind of support you can expect should the issue return.

Dave

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I suspect you're right, jedzep, as it isn't all of them, just the upper 4 (so far, at least, but I figured the tension of the low E string would be strongest so I'm surprised that one didn't pull forward as well).  If they fill and re-drill, do you think that will impact the tone?  Like I said, I'd played a number of new J-45s over the years and this one has the best tone I'd heard, hence being extra bummed about this issue.  Also, the model is out of stock (says the Gibson website) so if they did decide to replace I'm guessing I wouldn't be getting the same model (really like the chunky neck).

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Egoideal,   Jed and other commenters have raised good points.  I would let Gibson do what they believe is best at this point. It is unlikely the tuners are bent - the holes are crooked or oversized and/or there is something wrong with that piece of wood.  Maybe a whole new headpiece?  A whole new neck?  a whole new guitar?   I'd let them know you really love the guitar but not go too far in pressuring them to keep it intact aka 'apply a bandaid''.    This is disappointing, for sure, but rare.   Hang in there. 

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Funny, this issue is alive now on the UMGF, a little worse than yours. The classic fix is what they're describing. You shouldn't worry about tone being affected, though, however, as you say, a replacement guitar wouldn't be a good option. My cautioning just refers to making sure they would back you up if their fix wore out down the road.

https://umgf.com/viewtopic.php?p=2616313#p2616313

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12 hours ago, egoidealmusic said:

Thanks, Zomby.  In addition to the shaft looking bent, the grommets were lifting in the back and digging into the wood in the front.  It almost seems like the holes were just drilled too large so everything was loose.  When I first noticed it I detuned and pushed them back down, but as soon as it was back up to tune it was the same thing (and no, I didn't put on super heavy strings or anything that might cause it).  And I definitely love my Epis, but have been wanting a Gibson since I was in my early 20s (almost 50 now), so was thrilled to finally get this.  Again, hope it can be fixed instead of replaced!

The kitchen fix for a lifting plate is to fill the screw hole with a toothpick.  I have been there.  Ironically, the last guitar I subjected to that fix was a 1953 Triumph Regent.   But again, being this is a new guitar the smart play is to sit back and strike a relaxed pose and let Gibson sort it out.

Back in the day I actually never really wanted a Gibson.  If anything I had my sights set on a Martin but the reality of it was I was playing a Harmony Sovereign.  But there was a time when what we call "vintage" was just a used guitar.  And used Gibsons were cheaper than used Martins.  So they kind of snuck up on me.    But over the decades I have become so associated with playing Gibsons that sellers who know me will seek me out.  The last time that happened I ended up with a 1932 L1.  

Edited by zombywoof
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Are those press-to-fit tuners, or do they screw down like Waverlys, with their hexagonal bases? It might provide more info if you were to de-tune that A string & see if the tuner is seated all of the way onto it's lower half, and once the string's off, check the hole drilled into the headstock to see if it's out of round. 

Definitely a lighten-up-Francis situation: you like the guitar. If the holes are out of round, that can be fixed. . . if not by fill n' re-drill, then maybe conversion bushings (hello, StewMac) will have you back in business. This will in no way compromise the tone or reliability of the guitar. No biggie. 

 

Also- are the tuners stamped "Grover" ?

 

Edited by 62burst
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Yup, they're the press to fit tuners--Grover strap cream button (link below).  And that's great to know that it won't compromise tone.  And I did wonder if just slightly larger bushing would fix the problem, but given that it's brand new I thought it best to let Gibson do their things as folks have suggested.  Again, I was just worried that the wood was too soft which might lead to other/bigger issues down the road.

 

https://www.gibson.com/Guitar/ACCSRX331/50s-J-45-Original/Vintage-Sunburst

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Ok, then. Especially recently, always the possiblity that supply issues could've resulted in other tuners requiring smaller holes needing to be drilled in the headstock. I'd still check for out-of-round. 

All good. A disadvantage of the "let big G take care of it"  would be if you were not near a trusted Gibson authorized repair facility, and had to risk having the guitar make a cross country trip. With that scenario in mind, I've dealt with issues such as this myself, rather than a rolling of the dice, and it's many opportunities for damage or hijinks along it's travels.

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Yup, I'm not near a trusted Gibson repair facility so I had no choice but to mail it to the repair shop in Nashville, which of course slows the whole thing down.  They had it for 3+ weeks before they even looked at it to "confirm" there was an issue (that's what I was told when I called on Friday).  No idea how long it will take for them to decide how to handle it--was just told to call back later this week.  I assume if the decide it needs to be replaced they'll reach out to me?

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FWIW, I have a 2020 J-50 1960's Original which is part of the same "family" and also has the Grover Cream Strap tuners (which are replicas of vintage Klusons). There is certainly nothing like this happening with mine.

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I've read some of your posts raving about that guitar!  I considered it as well but really like the feel of the big necks from the 50s.   I friend has a J-45 from the actual 60s (don't recall the exact year) but the neck almost felt like an electric guitar neck to me--way to thin.  I've got pretty big hands and felt like it was a bit too tight for me.  Plus, there's just something about the sunburst with the batwing pickup that I've always been drawn to.   I played a 1956 (if I recall correctly) one many years ago and was instantly in love--and yet was also very broke!

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Haha, I was drawn to the 60's version because of the smaller neck. But I have a real 1965 J-50, and its neck is substantially thinner than the 2020 version. The nut width is the same, but the neck carve is much fatter. So, it certainly isn't an accurate copy of a real 1960's Gibson, but still a great guitar. Hope that Gibson will properly fix the issue with your tuners.

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2 hours ago, egoidealmusic said:

I've read some of your posts raving about that guitar!  I considered it as well but really like the feel of the big necks from the 50s.   I friend has a J-45 from the actual 60s (don't recall the exact year) but the neck almost felt like an electric guitar neck to me--way to thin.  I've got pretty big hands and felt like it was a bit too tight for me.  Plus, there's just something about the sunburst with the batwing pickup that I've always been drawn to.   I played a 1956 (if I recall correctly) one many years ago and was instantly in love--and yet was also very broke!

 Many find the 1950s Gibson round shoulder C necks the most user friendly Gibson ever slapped on a guitar.  I have seen it referred to as Mid-Century Modern C.   

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Definitely that way for me, at least.  I've known some that complain that it's too big or adds too much weight, but at least in my (very amateur) hands it feels like home.  Maybe it's because I played baseball as a kid and I've heard some refer to that neck as the "baseball bat" neck.  Either way, just feels right to me.

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5 hours ago, egoidealmusic said:

Haha very true!  So again, fingers crossed that it's that easy a fix.

 

Out of curiosity, what are some of the worst defects you all have seen on a new guitar?

You asked about defects on a new guitar. I ordered an SJ-45 Deluxe back in 1994. I waited 5-7 months for it. Beautiful guitar, but the fingerboard looked like they started sawing the fret slots in the wrong place then move the saw over about 2mm. In other words, at every fret the rosewood had a groove about 2mm running  parallel  to the fret. I sent it back and I got the same guitar back. After the repair, it looked like the defect was never there. 

I've also seen a  number of Guilds on show room floors with the bridges starting to lift.

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That's really sad to hear.  It amazing that I've owned a number of second hand cheaper guitars over the years (many of the Epi copies of Gibsons) and while they obviously have their, um, cheaper aspects, have never found something so obviously messed up as what you mention, gearbasher.  My most recent guitar was an Epi (https://www.guitarcenter.com/Epiphone/Limited-Edition-EL-00-PRO-Acoustic-Guitar-Acoustic-Electric-Guitar.gc) that was supposedly blemished (got it for super cheap as I'd been wanting to try a smaller bodied guitar) and I swear almost a year later I can't find anything wrong with it.  Was perfectly intonated and the action was great.  Have replaced the nut, saddle, and pins (bone, bone, and rosewood) and it sounds amazing.  I know that things happen and no one is perfect, but you'd think with the money that's put into high end guitars there would be better quality before it's shipped out.  A guy I play with now bought a new J-35 about 5 or so years ago and had the bridge lift within the first two weeks.  He bought it at GC and they fixed it and it's stayed since then, but still!

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