Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Hi all, So I’ve just taken my Les Paul Custom back to the shop after having it for just over a month to be sent to Gibson Europe for assessment, and on inspection in the shop was told it looks fine and they can’t see the crack that has happened from a twist in the neck that has relieved it’s self by lifting the heel on the low E side. I had explained I’ve been chasing intonation and tuning and have had to setup a few times as the relief and action keep changing.. I was told when the shop guy was playing it the action was a bit high.. too which I referenced the setup issues and that it has been set to factory setup.. and was told not to listen to that as this was just for Americans… what should it be set at for uk then..??. i feel like there’s something amiss here.. any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) Factory Setup Specs are a guide for average use.. A good starting point. Setup Specs are based on personal preference. For example most Shredders like the Action low & fast. A Slide player most likely will want it higher.. A Rhythm Guitarist most likely wants it somewhere in between… It is totally subjective… If there are Neck issues that is something else.. Is it a new or used Guitar.. If it’s New you may want to Exchange for another.. Or have the Factory repair it under Warranty. If it’s Used “search for a reliable quality Luthier with an excellent reputation”. Not just the Guy at the Store…. Edited February 11, 2022 by Larsongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) Has a twist in the neck been definitively found? Basically, someone tried to make the neck as straight as possible - the wood - and used a slotted 24 3/4" scale straightedge to inspect both the treble and bass side of the neck? This is what needs to happen to measure it the best. You could do the capo/feeler gauge stuff, but if your frets are not level, you could miss something... So if you don't have a twist and you can make the neck straight via the truss rod, you should shoot for factory spec to see if any issues are present. 5/64" on bass side, 3/64" on treble side at 12th fret when tuned up to pitch. If you don't have chokes anywhere on any note, then you don't have fret issues where a fret dressing/leveling could be needed to fix. After you verify that factory spec setup is good, adjust to your liking. I only say to go factory spec to make sure you are dealing with a guitar that is "acceptable" to Gibson - what SHOULD be acceptable IMHO. If you want to lower the action or raise it, go ahead. Specs to me WRT guitars are GUIDELINES, not rules. You're only going to get away with so much though. And if you're expecting perfect intonation, this is never going to happen. I learned to just deal and have fun playing. Not sure if you're in that camp I used to be in years ago when imperfect intonation bothered the heck out of me. Edited February 11, 2022 by NighthawkChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 49 minutes ago, Tega.tm said: Hi all, So I’ve just taken my Les Paul Custom back to the shop after having it for just over a month to be sent to Gibson Europe for assessment, and on inspection in the shop was told it looks fine and they can’t see the crack that has happened from a twist in the neck that has relieved it’s self by lifting the heel on the low E side. I had explained I’ve been chasing intonation and tuning and have had to setup a few times as the relief and action keep changing.. I was told when the shop guy was playing it the action was a bit high.. too which I referenced the setup issues and that it has been set to factory setup.. and was told not to listen to that as this was just for Americans… what should it be set at for uk then..??. i feel like there’s something amiss here.. any thoughts? Is there a crack in the neck or not? If there is, how did it "relieve itself", how do you "lift the heel on the low E side"? How are the relief and action changing? Does it intonate properly or not? Setup specs are used to make a properly functioning neck, the kind of neck you should have. What is wrong with the neck when set up to specs? It should work right like that, no fretting out, no dead spots, no problems associated with the strings being too low. As for being only for America, that's just weird. If it is cracked return it and get your money back, that is the only thing the dealers and the company actually understand, unsold/unsellable guitars. Good luck with it. Sounds like a dumb mess. rct 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 Sorry if this has offended anyone, this was not my intention as I was trying to get a bit of clarity on from what I was aware was the standard setup for leaving the factory… i will elaborate on the details shortly.. just need to pick up the kids from school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 That set up difference for America and the UK smells like tech talk for "I don't know" to me. Whitefang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 23 minutes ago, Whitefang said: That set up difference for America and the UK smells like tech talk for "I don't know" to me. Whitefang It off due to over in the UK they use the metric system and in The States we use inches. So they failed to do the conversion form standard to metric. Problem Solved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 So what’s happened is… ( I had posted some about this in the introduction page by mistake.. sorry) brought the guitar home.. and noticed after a week or so when playing unplugged above 12th on all strings sounded a bit weird as in dead/ touching the fret above whichever fret I was playing.. so stared to give it a good look over as I had only played it plugged in, I’m the shop, my own fault for being too excited I know.. but found the action seemed a bit high so did a full setup to factory settings as a baseline.. but found it couldn’t even play at those settings due to high strings being too low.. so checking the neck I noticed that above the 12th was a noticeable rise/ hump all the way back to the 22nd and the low E side was dipped down quite a bit from the 12th up to the head stock.. i left it for a few more days incase it was environmental changes settling in.. and gave the fretboard some conditioning oil then left for a few more days.. this made the dip ease up a bit so I set it up again.. but couldn’t get intonation and tuning to settle.. so checked again and it was all out.. then it became a bit of a chase to tune and intonate.. and a daily check of setup which changes daily.. I then found the twisted look I had been seeing was looking a lot straighter.. that’s when I seen a crack in the joint between the heel and the body.. this then started running up the low E side and then along the join of the fretboard and body all the way along to the end of the fretboard (22nd). so I have assumed that this the neck relieved itself to where it wants to be… On last check I had relief of .010 low E and .003 on high e… and it looks ok on low side bow wise but high side is starting to back bow as of last night.. it is going to Gibson Europe for assessment but I feel that the shop is saying that it is my fault for some reason.. I have 6 other guitars in the same room and they play fine, the room is at the same temp and humidity 24/7 so I’m just a bit miffed by the whole thing.. plus being dismissed by the shop is quite frustrating, as I’ve been playing guitar for more than 20 years and have had no issues setting up any of my other guitars.. so to be told it’s fine seems a bit odd to me.. but maybe I’m missing something.. again not try to annoy anyone, just worried about being left with a duff guitar that cost more than my car…😂🤦♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 24 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: It off due to over in the UK they use the metric system and in The States we use inches. So they failed to do the conversion form standard to metric. Problem Solved. 😂 … yeah it took me a while to think about it… then I got my engineering ruler out with 32 and 64ths on it instead… 🤦♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Electrics are not effected by humidity as much as acoutics are. I kept all my electrics out 24/7 when I had them. My acoustics are in cases with humidity control packets. Is the neck bowed back, and I assume you have some relief in the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 hours ago, NighthawkChris said: Has a twist in the neck been definitively found? Basically, someone tried to make the neck as straight as possible - the wood - and used a slotted 24 3/4" scale straightedge to inspect both the treble and bass side of the neck? This is what needs to happen to measure it the best. You could do the capo/feeler gauge stuff, but if your frets are not level, you could miss something... So if you don't have a twist and you can make the neck straight via the truss rod, you should shoot for factory spec to see if any issues are present. 5/64" on bass side, 3/64" on treble side at 12th fret when tuned up to pitch. If you don't have chokes anywhere on any note, then you don't have fret issues where a fret dressing/leveling could be needed to fix. After you verify that factory spec setup is good, adjust to your liking. I only say to go factory spec to make sure you are dealing with a guitar that is "acceptable" to Gibson - what SHOULD be acceptable IMHO. If you want to lower the action or raise it, go ahead. Specs to me WRT guitars are GUIDELINES, not rules. You're only going to get away with so much though. And if you're expecting perfect intonation, this is never going to happen. I learned to just deal and have fun playing. Not sure if you're in that camp I used to be in years ago when imperfect intonation bothered the heck out of me. I am a bit of an intonation ocd but like I said set my copy Les Paul to the same settings and to be honest it sounds better now than it ever did 🤷♂️ And intonation is fine.. and this is a kit guitar I bought for something to do during lockdown 2020.. and not even b grade wood at that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Electrics are not effected by humidity as much as acoutics are. I kept all my electrics out 24/7 when I had them. My acoustics are in cases with humidity control packets. Is the neck bowed back, and I assume you have some relief in the neck. Yes I have all my guitars out.. acoustic and electric and they are fine hanging on the wall.. but the Gibson I kept in the case… the relief at last check was ok on low side but slightly starting to back bow on high strings side so not even sure how that happens to be honest.. also the is fine according to the shop 🤦♂️ None of my other guitars have needed to be tuned in years.. I know i know.. I should change the strings but they have been sitting for a while without being played and still sound good when I do play them… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tega.tm said: Yes I have all my guitars out.. acoustic and electric and they are fine hanging on the wall.. but the Gibson I kept in the case… the relief at last check was ok on low side but slightly starting to back bow on high strings side so not even sure how that happens to be honest.. also the is fine according to the shop 🤦♂️ None of my other guitars have needed to be tuned in years.. I know i know.. I should change the strings but they have been sitting for a while without being played and still sound good when I do play them… Is there another shop or luthier you can go to to get another opinion on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Is there another shop or luthier you can go to to get another opinion on it? I took it back to the shop today for them to send on RA to Gibson Europe for assessment so hopefully they will either tell me it’s fine or fix it or replace it?? I’m not holding out much hope due to shop being in charge of explaining as they say it’s fine.. and have logged it as a neck crack… but also feel like I’m being duped somehow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 Thanks for replying everyone.. and sorry if I’m annoying anyone.. just a bit up in the air at the moment with it all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 I think I’m just hoping someone has had a similar experience and had some sort of good experience with the warranty in Europe.. clutching at straws here 🤦♂️😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 48 minutes ago, Tega.tm said: Thanks for replying everyone.. and sorry if I’m annoying anyone.. just a bit up in the air at the moment with it all You don't annoy anyone here. You are entertaining I like to think of it 😆 Best of luck to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 52 minutes ago, NighthawkChris said: You don't annoy anyone here. You are entertaining I like to think of it 😆 Best of luck to you! Am I just worried over nothing do you think? being duped in the past has made me a bit suspicious 🤦♂️😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, Tega.tm said: Am I just worried over nothing do you think? being duped in the past has made me a bit suspicious 🤦♂️😂 Tega, if something isn't right, and you can't get anyone to listen, I don't think you are worried over nothing. Not sure you are being duped agian, but someone may be giving you the bums rush where you're taking it. that whole comment on "ignore that, it's for americans" is rubbish, a setup, is a setup. if you can get some close up photos, and upload them (host them somewhere like facebook or any photo hosting sit) and publish the link here, may help to see what kind of thing you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 16 minutes ago, kidblast said: Tega, if something isn't right, and you can't get anyone to listen, I don't think you are worried over nothing. Not sure you are being duped agian, but someone may be giving you the bums rush where you're taking it. that whole comment on "ignore that, it's for americans" is rubbish, a setup, is a setup. if you can get some close up photos, and upload them (host them somewhere like facebook or any photo hosting sit) and publish the link here, may help to see what kind of thing you see. Thanks for that.. I’ll try post pictures here and see how the quality is… the crack has moved slowly up from the heel on the low strings side only, round and up the side and then along the fretboard joint to the body right along to the end fretboard.. Are these pictures any good when zoomed in.. needless to say the finish around the heel is a bit bubbly and is thin under black light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 No they are rubbish pictures 🤦♂️😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Just now, Tega.tm said: No they are rubbish pictures 🤦♂️😂 on that first one,, I think it does look like the neck went askew on ya there. really hard to know, only a thing one would have to see in person I guess it sucks but you might have to be persistent.. I believe there is a Customer Service for Gibson that deals with the UK/Europe region. If that the shop is flickin you off, that may be your next stop. you would think these guys would stand behind the sale, but most of them really don't. once you walk out there door, and leave your money behind, they kind of seem to loose interest good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tega.tm said: Am I just worried over nothing do you think? being duped in the past has made me a bit suspicious 🤦♂️😂 Nothing stupid here, at all. Please feel free to share what you want. I mentioned that you can 100% verify with a notched straightedge for the Gibson scale. This is what luthiers use and will get you much needed information. Don't trust your eyes if you aren't trained enough to do this... And I agree with @kidblast no twist that I can tell... And if the neck joint on a LP separated... you'd know. You have to hit it pretty hard to make it come out of the neck joint. I HAVE seen a lot of alpine white finishes crack and check... Seems to be what you have to look forward to. No worries though. I think it looks 'normal' for these guitars as they age, YMMV. And to boot, if you had a neck separated, you'd get some serious tuning stability issues. Not the string getting caught in the nut issue, but just totally goes out on you. Maybe you should spend some time watching YT videos on luthiers setting up guitars, doing fret dressings, neck restorations, etc. Maybe you can find something that helps you learn how to diagnose yourself as I have. I have bought a few tools from StewMac to help with fixing my guitars - things I learned how to use by watching others do it online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tega.tm Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 46 minutes ago, kidblast said: on that first one,, I think it does look like the neck went askew on ya there. really hard to know, only a thing one would have to see in person I guess it sucks but you might have to be persistent.. I believe there is a Customer Service for Gibson that deals with the UK/Europe region. If that the shop is flickin you off, that may be your next stop. you would think these guys would stand behind the sale, but most of them really don't. once you walk out there door, and leave your money behind, they kind of seem to loose interest good luck! Thanks, I think I just have to wait and see what they decide and take it from there.. yeah pictures I have when actual size you can zoom in and see the finish doing like a tiny saw blade type of thing on the side joint… don’t really know how to explain it.. but looks to me like moving up slowly 🤷♂️🤦♂️🤯😂 I give up… hopefully Gibson would be able to tell if that’s what’s happened or not but watch this space.. 🧐😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tega.tm said: Thanks, I think I just have to wait and see what they decide and take it from there.. yeah pictures I have when actual size you can zoom in and see the finish doing like a tiny saw blade type of thing on the side joint… That might be caused by a small amount of glue coming out of the joint itself. It seems that on a white LP, the slightest flaw in the finish is very visible. The best way to post pics on this forum is to upload them to an image-hosting site and copy/paste the link they provide into your post. I'm not sure how you might contact Gibson Europe directly (they want you to go through a dealer) - there used to be an email address but I can't find it now - they have a fbk page.... https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Company/Gibson-Guitar-Europe-116883215011091/ Edited February 11, 2022 by jdgm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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