Whitefang Posted August 5, 2022 Author Share Posted August 5, 2022 11 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: That works for the 16 and under crowd. Really, the original "Kick out the jams, motherf**kers!" appealed to the 16 and under crowd better than anything else. Just that the OG was frowned on by their parents. And Pinch was right. The "cleaned up" version for radio was "brothers and sisters." But in case some of you(obviously) weren't paying attention( for three times ) my concern wasn't different version that were only edited for time and content to gain AM radio play. But, different versions that wound up as tracks on different pressings of the same LP( like Dylans' "Buick 6") or some different versions that wound up on radio but not on the LP, with only a very subtle but still noticeable difference, but nothing radical. (Like the other "Penny Lane" ending mentioned in the OP) And too of course, the different "Sweet Emotion" versions, the more familiar one on "Toys In The Attic" and the radically different one on "Greatest Hits". See..... I pictured the many people out there for whatever reasons, never getting the LPs but years later bought the "Greatest Hits" LPs containing some songs they really liked (face it, not ALL the songs on a "Greatest Hits" LP are considered all that "great" by everybody) . But to their dismay, the version of a song they really liked is radically different(and also not as good) as the version they're more familiar with. Another example is the version of "Hot Legs" on Rod Stewart's "Greatest Hits" LP doesn't end with the guttural-to-screeching "I love ya hon-EEE!" I've known for years, but instead has Rod singing "Hot legs" over and over with a bit of instrumental between the words. Dig.... And... well, seems we have another issue of different versions on different LP pressings. This is what I have on the "Greatest Hits" LP... Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdecantoo Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Whitefang said: you(obviously) weren't paying attention( for three times ) It takes a minimum of three tries for us ADD patients to pay anything to anybody! I’m still paying the Piper AND my Dues!😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronx Posted August 7, 2022 Share Posted August 7, 2022 The single and album versions of Zappa's I Don't Wanna Get Drafted (aka Drafted Again). This one's obvious, Revolution and Revolution 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted August 7, 2022 Author Share Posted August 7, 2022 With just a 5 second difference in length, "I Don't Wanna Get Drafted" is just a shorter version of the LP release. And I already twice stated I'm not referring to shortened versions for singles radio release. Revolution and Revolution 1 : Putting the numeral on the title (and as "Revolution" was the "B" side of the single "Hey Jude") it's not really a case of an album track being different than the singles release as the added number does indicate it's really not totally the same song. Not as far a Lennon was concerned as he resisted the total electric treatment and single release of the song to begin with. And we all know Revolution 1 was the first recording and never intended for release as a single. I recall, when the "White album" was released that several FM radio DJs talked about this. Others over time would often refer to it as the "demo" for Revolution. Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted August 7, 2022 Share Posted August 7, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Bronx said: The single and album versions of Zappa's I Don't Wanna Get Drafted (aka Drafted Again). This one's obvious, Revolution and Revolution 1. ZAPPA never did anything the same twice. It may be Dinah Moe-Hum again, but he's gonna play it different. I just spent 3 hours and I ain't got a crumb from the Dinah Moe Hum. Edited August 7, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) Dylan did different versions of some of his old material in the late 70s and recorded them on the "Live At The Budokan" set. "Maggie's Farm" and "I Want You" among others, were transformed. It was amazing at the time. Clapton's acoustic version of "Layla", very different to his original and more effectively brings out the lyrics IMO. An oldie, though perhaps jazz doesn't really count; Django Reinhardt and Stephane Grappelli recorded their 1st Hot Club version of "Limehouse Blues" for Decca in late 1935. It is taken at a medium tempo, serene and mysterious. A few months later - May 1936 - they recorded it again for EMI Pathe and that version is looser and much faster, almost double the tempo of the 1st one with wild solos from both principals. Increasing the tempo of a tune as you get to know it better is common enough - we've probably all done it in bands we've been in. One song I've always liked in its different versions is the Grateful Dead "Playin' In The Band" of which there are many; from Weir's own "Ace" LP and the 'Skull & Roses' live to a 45-minute space-out on "Pacific Northwest '73-'74" (it's on Spotify) which takes some listening. https://www.discogs.com/release/12548665-Grateful-Dead-Pacific-Northwest-7374-The-Complete-Recordings One of the best versions is by Mickey Hart on his album "Rolling Thunder". He calls it "The Main Ten" and it features David Freiberg and Steven Stills. Edited August 8, 2022 by jdgm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 Most Bands eve The Beatles & The Stones didn’t perform their Songs the same when they played live.. There are many live Albums with various renditions.. It isn’t easy playing a Song exactly like the Record.. Including use of the correct Guitars, Amps & FX…. I’ve done it in “The Fab-Tones” a British Invasion Band I played in.. Instrumentally we were 99% spot on, even The correct Guitars. But, nobody has the exact same voices so that was a little off… We did try to recreate the actual Records though & were pretty good. The Pandemic pretty much retired that Band…. Unfortunately.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted August 8, 2022 Author Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: ZAPPA never did anything the same twice. It may be Dinah Moe-Hum again, but he's gonna play it different. I just spent 3 hours and I ain't got a crumb from the Dinah Moe Hum. Sho' 'nuff. I recall seeing Zappa in '73 (when Mahavishnu opened for him) and he was promoting the "Apostrophe" LP. The way him and the band did "St. Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast" was far different than it sounded on the LP. But since it was done live, and never(far as I know) released as a single that too might have sounded different it bears no relevance here. 3 hours ago, jdgm said: Dylan did different versions of some of his old material in the late 70s and recorded them on the "Live At The Budokan" set. "Maggie's Farm" and "I Want You" among others, were transformed. It was amazing at the time. I've heard probably five different "live" versions of "Maggie's Farm" over the years. Rolling Thunder/'76 Budokan; '78 Wembly Stadium/'84 Then at the Grammys/ 11 years ago.... There's more out there. And none sound the same as another. But this is another matter entirely. Whitefang Edited August 8, 2022 by Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 In some cases, not all, a lot of these Guys couldn’t do them like the Records. Partly because, in those days, the technology didn’t exist. Also, in those days it was hip to be “Revolutionary” in everything you did.. Plus, at the time, they were writing & recording a new Song everyday! Also, in some cases doing it like the Record didn’t move the Crowds as much as some of the extended “Live” versions… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 On 8/4/2022 at 2:00 PM, Murph said: All I was saying is I don't know of any other band that sat around "jamming" and goofing off in a high dollar studio as much as the Beatles, leaving us with hours and hours and hours and hours of different takes, un-tuned guitars and drivel. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Aside from the Get Back Sessions, which took place in Twickenham film studio and in the Apple records basement (so no EMI studio time was wasted). The Beatles were surprisingly efficient in studio through Pepper. Of course they had to be with the touring and movie schedules. If i remember correctly they had a month to write and record all the tunes for Rubber Soul plus a new single for the Christmas sales season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) In the Zappa doc Ruth Underwood talks about when they played with The MO. She said the sheer volume coming from the stage was a solid wave of volume. Edited August 8, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 The Penny Lane version with the trumpet coda was the British single release. It was included on an album called Beatles Rarities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 2 hours ago, cookieman15061 said: Aside from the Get Back Sessions, which took place in Twickenham film studio and in the Apple records basement (so no EMI studio time was wasted). The Beatles were surprisingly efficient in studio through Pepper. Of course they had to be with the touring and movie schedules. If i remember correctly they had a month to write and record all the tunes for Rubber Soul plus a new single for the Christmas sales season. In their early days they worked their asses off.. There is much in Books about their Studio Schedules which were pretty grueling.. Although, I’ve never read about how much they spent for Studio time, Engrs, Producers, etc. Sometimes the Record label front you the time etc. But, it ain’t free.. Not to mention, Packaging, Record Pressing & all the Marketing & Promotion costs.. Anyone have any idea? As time went on they would spend unbelievable amounts of time writing their songs in the Studio like we saw in the Get Back Documentary… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 6 hours ago, cookieman15061 said: The Penny Lane version with the trumpet coda was the British single release. It was included on an album called Beatles Rarities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rarities_(Beatles_compilations) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Larsongs said: As time went on they would spend unbelievable amounts of time writing their songs in the Studio like we saw in the Get Back Documentary… And I think it's cool and great and stuff that THEY COULD AFFORD TO DO THAT. Not that there's anything wrong with it. Edited August 9, 2022 by Murph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 56 minutes ago, Murph said: And I think it's cool and great and stuff that THEY COULD AFFORD TO DO THAT. Not that there's anything wrong with it. Back in the 60’s Recording time in an average Studio was roughly $25.00 hr.. plus the Tape, Engr, Producer.. Abbey Road I imagine was more.. My guess is $300.00 a day just for recording.. Multiply X 5 days a week = $1500.00 a week.. Plus Mixing, Mastering, Pressing, Marketing & Promotion.. The Music Business was never cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Murph said: And I think it's cool and great and stuff that THEY COULD AFFORD TO DO THAT. Not that there's anything wrong with it. The Beatles certainly could not afford to have unlimited studio time, well not in the beginning. EMI let them have it. They knew they had something special. Once the Mania got going the cash they made for themselves and other people, I am sure more than out weighs the cost of the people working with them in the studio, and the studio time. Edited August 9, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share Posted August 9, 2022 22 hours ago, Larsongs said: In some cases, not all, a lot of these Guys couldn’t do them like the Records. Partly because, in those days, the technology didn’t exist. Also, in those days it was hip to be “Revolutionary” in everything you did.. Plus, at the time, they were writing & recording a new Song everyday! Also, in some cases doing it like the Record didn’t move the Crowds as much as some of the extended “Live” versions… Fine. Find excuses. But in "Maggie's Farm" case, the LPs OG wouldn't have been hard for Dylan or any better equipped garage band to replicate. But Dylan probably figured, "What the hell." Then there's another case--- In '69 we went to see Jimi Hendrix and in the face of hundreds screaming requests for "All Along The Watchtower" Jimi finally stepped up to the mike and explained that they never worked out a way to do it live that suited them, and they figured none of their tries would suit the audiences either. Then he said, "So I think we'll do this to make it up to y'all. huhn." And lit into a mind blowing rendition of "Red House" Which was never on any of the Hendrix LPs I owned(or CDs either). Whitefang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) Dylan loved putting trips on everyone & was really good at that… He could & still can do whatever he wants & people will buy it… I haven’t been very impressed with for many years… Loved his early Material though.. Classics! I saw Hendrix in Baltimore, Md.. I think it was in 69 also… Amazing Concert! I don’t think there was one Song he covered like the Records.. Still great though! Not many Bands in those days Covered their own Records like the Record live… Much of the time time it was because Pro Studio Session Guys recorded the Instruments on the Records. The Bands we’re trying to Cover what the Session Guys did as best they could when they played live. A few years later I saw the Eagles for the first time in San Diego. Every song was Covered exactly like the Records. Only being live it sounded 10 times better than the Records.. Pretty impressive IMO… I’ve seen them a few times while Glenn was still with us.. Always spot on perfect! Since then I’ve been to lots of Concerts.. Not a lot of Bands do that. Either because they don’t want to or they can’t.. In the end the only thing that really matters is a great Concert… Edited August 9, 2022 by Larsongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) The original 1968 Stereo version, the 2009 Stereo Remaster, and the 2018 Remix of Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da has hand claps at 5 seconds in. The 1968 Mono version, and the 2009 Mono Remaster does not. https://www.the-paulmccartney-project.com/song/ob-la-di-ob-la-da/ I have a few copies of The White Album: 2018 - 50th Anniversary Super Deluxe CD, 2009 RemasterJapanese Import Mono CD, 2009 Stereo Remaster LP, 2018 Esher Demos LP, 2009 Mono Remaster LP, 2018 - 50th Anniversary LP, 2009 Stereo Remaster CD with Esher Demos, 2018 - 50th Anniversary CD, and a copy I got in the mid-80's is a Japanese pression on white vinyl that has never been played. I used to have it on 8-track, but I loaned it to my friend and he never returned it. It was on Capitol Records. I also used to have it on LP on a Capitol pressing, but when The Beatles CD came out in 1985, or so I got it on CD, and gave that copy to a friend. I don't have the 1985 CD anymore either, as I loaded it to my stepson and he has not retuned it. He probably lost it. Edited August 10, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Those different versions are cool! I have several original Beatles, Stones & others Albums I bought in the 60’s.. Then 8 Tracks which mostly are gone because the Tape unspooled. Then the Cassette versions. And multi CD Versions.. Recently been getting Special Edition Collector Sets which include CD’s, Vinyl & all kinds of memorabilia stuff. I’m not liking some of the newer Re-Mixes as they’re trying to mix them like Records of today.. They don’t seem balanced.. Too much of this, usually Bass, or not enough that.. I prefer the original Mono Mixes of much of the Music.. I have The Beatles Mono Collection & like it a lot. I don’t care for most of the odd Stereo Mixes with voices one side, Instruments on the other side or other not realistic stereo mixes.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 22 hours ago, Larsongs said: Dylan loved putting trips on everyone & was really good at that… He could & still can do whatever he wants & people will buy it… I haven’t been very impressed with for many years… Loved his early Material though.. Classics! I saw Hendrix in Baltimore, Md.. I think it was in 69 also… Amazing Concert! I don’t think there was one Song he covered like the Records.. Still great though! Not many Bands in those days Covered their own Records like the Record live… Much of the time time it was because Pro Studio Session Guys recorded the Instruments on the Records. The Bands we’re trying to Cover what the Session Guys did as best they could when they played live. A few years later I saw the Eagles for the first time in San Diego. Every song was Covered exactly like the Records. Only being live it sounded 10 times better than the Records.. Pretty impressive IMO… I’ve seen them a few times while Glenn was still with us.. Always spot on perfect! Since then I’ve been to lots of Concerts.. Not a lot of Bands do that. Either because they don’t want to or they can’t.. In the end the only thing that really matters is a great Concert… Y'know Lars, it was probably because some earlier artists knew their audiences were there for a good time as well, and after playing the same sets of tunes the same way for upmteen cities They probably start changing them up to keep THEM interested. An audience can tell when the band on stage is into what they're doing or just "phoning it in". So if changing songs a little keeps them enthused, so OK. I know what you mean about The Eagles. I saw them twice. First time in Spring of '72 (when "Take It Easy" was still playing on AM) and late that same year opening for Yes at a different venue. Musically sounded the same(which was close to the studio recordings) the only difference being the first time I saw them the venue was much smaller and the band could be more intimate and personable with the audience. And the Yes audience really didn't seem to like them that much. I didn't get that. I thought they were great both times. Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Whitefang said: Y'know Lars, it was probably because some earlier artists knew their audiences were there for a good time as well, and after playing the same sets of tunes the same way for upmteen cities They probably start changing them up to keep THEM interested. An audience can tell when the band on stage is into what they're doing or just "phoning it in". So if changing songs a little keeps them enthused, so OK. I know what you mean about The Eagles. I saw them twice. First time in Spring of '72 (when "Take It Easy" was still playing on AM) and late that same year opening for Yes at a different venue. Musically sounded the same(which was close to the studio recordings) the only difference being the first time I saw them the venue was much smaller and the band could be more intimate and personable with the audience. And the Yes audience really didn't seem to like them that much. I didn't get that. I thought they were great both times. Whitefang The Eagles opening for Yes. That is two bands I would think would not pair well. Just like when I heard in '71 or so Yes opened for Black Sabbath. All three are great bands, but I don't think suited well to be on the same bill. Well Siberian Khatru is almost like Peaceful Easy Feeling. Edited August 10, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 Yeah, I mentioned before that the Eagles show I first saw and mentioned up there was when they opened for Mahavishnu Orchestra. And I did have a chance to see Yes with Black Sabbath, but I wasn't aware they were on that bill. A buddy of mine tried to get me to go saying he had an extra ticket because his girlfriend got sick. But not really ever into Sabbath I turned him down. He never said Yes was on the bill. I didn't find out until the next day. And I also mentioned the first time I saw The Mahavishnu Orchestra was when they opened for ELP. And later ('73) saw MO open for Zappa. It was par for the course back then to mix genres for concert billings. And don't forget---- Those legendary Hendrix opening for The Monkees concerts! 😜 Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Whitefang said: And I also mentioned the first time I saw The Mahavishnu Orchestra was when they opened for ELP. And later ('73) saw MO open for Zappa. Those make some bit of sense. Eagles/Yes and Yes/Sabbath - not so much. I'll bet Yes made Scuzzy and company look silly. Edited August 11, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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