Modern Gibson Acoustics vs Various Vintage Eras

[jt]

I love vintage guitars, especially vintage Gibsons. I much prefer them to modern Gibsons.

Do I think that they are always better guitars than their modern counterparts? No. But I love playing a well-worn guitar that I know has played songs for decades before I acquired it. Doing so brings me joy. I have 2 Gibson flattops that US soldiers took to WWII. I feel so privileged to be their current caretaker.

And to be crass about the economics, no other asset that I've owned and sold have appreciated like vintage guitars. Yeah, timing is everything. Still ...

Play what you like, of course, and what you can afford, of course. If the guitar makes you happy, it's a great instrument. Old guitars make me happy.

[MissouriPicker]

11 hours ago, kidblast said:

I can get the attraction of it all, but I don't find it all that practical.  Neck resets, bridge refits, bracing repairs, cracks, et all are all part of what goes into to this kind of purchase.   I have a 1978 Alvarez Yari, that I've had for years now.  It's a  fine guitar (D28 style dreadnaught)  It is holding up well.  But I know it probably needs a bridge reset in the near future which isn't really too bad, but perhaps a neck reset too.   Neither of which at the moment I am planning to do.     It's 100% playable tho, and it sounds really good

Keep playing it!

[BluesKing777]

 

I have the dangerous habit of liking all of them!😃

And to pause for a second and think: ‘Which one (of my collection) will I play today? Old, new, blue?’ ...is a joy!

And while my preference is 1 3/4” nut, fat V neck, 2 3/8” bridge spacing......00, OM, 000 size.....that can be a rare and very, very expensive set of specs for ....vintage acoustics! And some of that vintage wood took 3000 years or so to grow, and mostly cut for things other than guitars........gone. But, I have Irish and Australian guitars built from Australian Blackwood and guess what? They sound like........guitars! And while my preference use to be mahogany/sitka....now it is......anything I get to try! It is obvious now that the builder is more important than the woods.

 

BluesKing777.

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by BluesKing777

[kidblast]

7 hours ago, MissouriPicker said:

Keep playing it!

exactly Larry!  

[Murph]

I like all Gibsons.

Old ones, new ones, shiny ones, relic'd ones.

A Gibson was the first quality guitar I ever played, after learning a little with junkers. Then, one day I got one.

They just hold a special place in my soul.

[fortyearspickn]

Same here.   I just come down on the side of ones made in this century because there are more of them around.   I wonder what will happen to the 3 I've got.   Hopefully wind up in the hands of someone who can play better -  they deserve it ! 

[zombywoof]

I also discovered Gibsons after graduating from lower down the food chain models offered by Harmony and Kay   My introduction to Gibsons though were not new and shiny guitars but those built in the second half of the 1950s which were then just used guitars and so cheaper than new ones. 

I am guessing though that I have owned fewer Gibsons than many here.  As best as I can figure I have had eleven:  one dating to the 1920s; two from the 1930s; two from the 1940s; two from the 1950s; three from the early-1960s (two of which were 12 stringers); and one 2001 Bozeman guitar.  And of that number I still have five of them.  

Edited December 29, 2022 by zombywoof

[BluesKing777]

Another suggestion for ya.....

As I rotate around wonderful guitars I own, today I have been playing my 1959 Gibson LG3 and it has a lot of the features you may like, mainly a very dry tone with a thumpy dead bass string sound and crystal clear treble, rings like a bell on some notes! I put this down to the late 50s (55-59?) slightly thicker un-scalloped braced sitka top over mahogany back and sides...nice 50s style neck......

There is one like mine for sale on Reverb.com (not mine) - here:

https://reverb.com/item/63961986-a-rare-beauty-1959-gibson-lg-3

 

Similar (1958):

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by BluesKing777

[zombywoof]

2 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

Another suggestion for ya.....

As I rotate around wonderful guitars I own, today I have been playing my 1959 Gibson LG3 and it has a lot of the features you may like, mainly a very dry tone with a thumpy dead bass string sound and crystal clear treble, rings like a bell on some notes! I put this down to the late 50s (55-59?) slightly thicker un-scalloped braced sitka top over mahogany back and sides...nice 50s style neck......

There is one like mine for sale on Reverb.com (not mine) - here:

https://reverb.com/item/63961986-a-rare-beauty-1959-gibson-lg-3

 

Similar (1958):

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The un-scalloped bracing Gibson went to in 1955 not only did not add any more mass to the top but was actually a bit lighter than their earlier scalloped bracing.  They stuck with it until towards the end of the 1960s when they started to bulk it up.  

When t comes to the "thump" I always assumed it was the result not of a "dead" low end but of one which had a quicker decay.

Edited December 29, 2022 by zombywoof

[BluesKing777]

5 hours ago, zombywoof said:

The un-scalloped bracing Gibson went to in 1955 not only did not add any more mass to the top but was actually a bit lighter than their earlier scalloped bracing.  They stuck with it until towards the end of the 1960s when they started to bulk it up.  

When t comes to the "thump" I always assumed it was the result not of a "dead" low end but of one which had a quicker decay.

While I have not measured the 59 LG3 top, it ‘feels’ a bit thicker than other guits, even thicker than close relative - my 52 LG1.

Combined with the un-scalloped braces, I really like that I can ‘dig in’.....hard! The top has had 63 years to break in and my guess is that new, brand new, it would have been a real pig! Not now....

It is hard to know personally any of these things if you just had....yikes.....one guitar since starting to play! But I just jumped from the un-scalloped top of the 59 LG3 sitka/mahogany to my 3 or 4 year old Maton Messiah 808, premium grade rosewood and AAA sitka top, deep body 00 with scalloped bracing and everything full gloss and probably could look new forever! The only thing the same with these two guits is they have strings. But both got my version of a couple of Chet style fingerpicking some Elvis!  From thumpy to....??? ‘full sustainish Kerrrangadangie full tone everything....

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by BluesKing777

[Murph]

7 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 3 or 4 year old Maton Messiah 808, premium grade rosewood and AAA sitka top, deep body 00 with scalloped bracing and everything full gloss and probably could look new forever! The only thing the same with these two guits is they have strings. But both got my version of a couple of Chet style fingerpicking some Elvis!  From thumpy to....??? ‘full sustainish Kerrrangadangie full tone everything..

You'll be an old man when that Maton opens up.......

[Dave F]

I know time  will tell how it holds up but I had a Gibson M2M L00 12 Fret with an aged top. I had my luthier who is a vintage guitar nut play it and he could not believe it was a new guitar.  It he said it felt and sounded like a vintage. 

[BluesKing777]

7 hours ago, Murph said:

You'll be an old man when that Maton opens up.......

 

A good point to bring up at this point in the thread!

A number of acoustics these days are advertised with ‘thinner finish for quicker breaking in and older tone’ etc. So it stands to reason that the acoustics with big globs of gloss will take longer to open up! (but the ad will probably never mention that).

A  couple of 20 year old standard model Martins, full gloss, I have played sound and feel new still.

So how will the ‘thin finish’’ models look and sound in 20 years? 50 years? 80? 

The finish on some vintage 80 year old acoustics has disappeared........if it wasn’t for the ‘leave it as it is’ opinion, they would get a new paint job! Will the new acoustics with little finish need paint in a few years?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by BluesKing777

[tpbiii]

I am a big fan of pre 1955 Gibsons -- and I have quite a few.  But my late wife and I were folk revival fans in the 60s, so I have some late 50s and early 60s too.  They were a good match to the milder music of the folk revival -- here are a couple of example.  1962 Hummingbird and 1956 LG-1 (about what I played in the 60s).

 

Best,

-Tom

 

[fortyearspickn]

Wasted Days and Wasted Nights ....    some of our esteemed members were uncovering the nuances of acoustic guitars based on their age and provenance,  while I was trying to figure out if beer was cheaper by the pitcher or the bottle.   Glad I snagged at least one  'old'  Gibson.  

[tpbiii]

I have what may be the worlds only faithful acoustic recording system in my basement -- listen on the correct headphones, the same science we used for audio standards  was used to create this.  And it has not changed since  it was created in about 2010.  So I have several thousand video == about 1300 on line which rigorously comparable. on vimeo

 

I did not  create them for public consumption -- although most can be seen freely.  I have demos by me, demos by more expert friends, jams, practices, and a few live shows recorded elsewhere.

 

I have them organized into album and groups on interesting topic and people.  So here is a group dedicated to a 1936 AJ and 1936 Jumbo 35 Trojan.  If you know your Gibson history that is the year and the models that really started the modern era.  The two players are accomplished flatpickers -- both of whom will be here to jam tonight! YEA!  HAPPY NEW YEARS!

https://vimeo.com/groups/576897

Best,

-Tom

[tpbiii]

Here is an example of the Martin competition from 1934 -- this particular 00-40H was made famous by Norman Blake;

 

https://vimeo.com/groups/532471

 

Best,

-Tom

[Murph]

Damned hippies....

[Murph]

13 minutes ago, tpbiii said:

  So here is a group dedicated to a 1936 AJ and 1936 Jumbo 35 Trojan.  If you know your Gibson history that is the year and the models that really started the modern era.  

 

Very cool and great sounding videos, Tom.

Mighty fine.

[Monkethanger]

A good few years back i lusted after a J185 because Woody Mann played a vintage one and it sounded great in his hands, i then saw him play various other guitars and again i thought  how the hell does he keep finding these great instruments. So i bought a centenary J185 in 2011 brand new  hide glue custom etc etc. It sounded nothing like a 50's J185, fair enough i thought its what i could afford at the time and it was still the sexiest looking guitar Gibson have made. I was then lucky enough to have a weekend picking with Woody at a guitar camp and asked him to play my guitar..and sure enough it sounded just like that old 50's one!!!

I've also been fortunate to play JT's Banners and they definitely have the mojo factor with their history but my J185 is 11yrs old now and it continues to write its own story everyday 

All guitars were new once

[rustystrings]

On 12/25/2022 at 1:28 PM, babydaddymusic said:

...I had never really loved the J45. I had it almost like a museum piece ...

... I’ve come to learn that most in the know about Gibson acoustics say that the real keepers of vintage are 20’s to 1950’s ... I don’t love the 66 J45 like I should. I feel it’s a piece of history, almost like a museum piece.  Now that I have this L-00 I feel I have a versatile guitar that I love to play. I feel almost like the J45 is not what I thought it was, which was some infallible harbinger of vintage woody tone that can’t be gotten by anything newer than 1970. 

It sure seems like both the 66 J45 and the 2019 L-00 are very well made guitars. ...

FWIW, I spent decades in the vintage guitar catch-and-release program, owned a couple of hundred guitars through the years and played probably thousands more.  I had Gibsons built between 1932 or so and 1975, notably including a 1950 J-45 and a 1960 LG-2.  I spent a lot of money through the years putting many of them back to rights, and I don't regret doing that, as they taught me a lot about what I like in guitars, and those instruments are probably still going strong for their current owners.

I don't own any of those guitars anymore, though.

Today, the '05 J-45 I bought new off the wall of a Guitar Center nearly 16 years ago is simply the very best guitar in the world - for ME.  I've gotten to play it and hear it develop its own voice, more than fulfilling the potential I heard that first day.  It wasn't meant to be a financial investment - though it is worth more now as a used, non-vintage guitar than I paid for it - and it doesn't convey the instant "authenticity" of a heavily worn (or relic'ed) finish.  All of its stories are my stories as well.  This one is MINE, though, and it feels like it has influenced me into the way I play today.  It might not nail all the genres I wander through perfectly, but it sure sounds great trying to.

The renaissance of Gibson acoustics and the creation of the Bozeman facility was all about recapturing the best of the vintage guitars in a more consistent way using the latest technology to create a little more time for final careful assembly of traditional materials, a further evolution of things like when the folks in Kalamazoo started using routers to cut smoother, more even and consistent neck pockets.  My perception is that there has been a serious effort to duplicate what worked best in the past and combine it with what works best today.

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that there are perfect guitars and pig guitars built in any era.  Stack onto that the variations between individual guitars of the exact same make and model built in the same week and it gets easier to discount the precise vintage - at least, if the primary goal is to find an instrument you love.  Just for fun, check out this video and hear how five identical new J-45 Standards all have their own distinctive voices - 

 

Life is too short to keep guitars you don't really love.

 

 

[zombywoof]

1 hour ago, rustystrings said:

FWIW, I spent decades in the vintage guitar catch-and-release program, owned a couple of hundred guitars through the years and played probably thousands more.  I had Gibsons built between 1932 or so and 1975, notably including a 1950 J-45 and a 1960 LG-2.  I spent a lot of money through the years putting many of them back to rights, and I don't regret doing that, as they taught me a lot about what I like in guitars, and those instruments are probably still going strong for their current owners.

I don't own any of those guitars anymore, though.

Today, the '05 J-45 I bought new off the wall of a Guitar Center nearly 16 years ago is simply the very best guitar in the world - for ME.  I've gotten to play it and hear it develop its own voice, more than fulfilling the potential I heard that first day.  It wasn't meant to be a financial investment - though it is worth more now as a used, non-vintage guitar than I paid for it - and it doesn't convey the instant "authenticity" of a heavily worn (or relic'ed) finish.  All of its stories are my stories as well.  This one is MINE, though, and it feels like it has influenced me into the way I play today.  It might not nail all the genres I wander through perfectly, but it sure sounds great trying to.

The renaissance of Gibson acoustics and the creation of the Bozeman facility was all about recapturing the best of the vintage guitars in a more consistent way using the latest technology to create a little more time for final careful assembly of traditional materials, a further evolution of things like when the folks in Kalamazoo started using routers to cut smoother, more even and consistent neck pockets.  My perception is that there has been a serious effort to duplicate what worked best in the past and combine it with what works best today.

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that there are perfect guitars and pig guitars built in any era.  Stack onto that the variations between individual guitars of the exact same make and model built in the same week and it gets easier to discount the precise vintage - at least, if the primary goal is to find an instrument you love.  Just for fun, check out this video and hear how five identical new J-45 Standards all have their own distinctive voices - 

 

Life is too short to keep guitars you don't really love.

 

 

Lawdy Have Mercy!  While I have played hundreds of Gibsons since I first "discovered" them some 45 years ago, I have only owned 11 and still have five of those.  Of that number there are only two though which have that magic which pushes them beyond special into that very special category.  With one the attraction is that it is the "best of the breed" when it comes to that particular model.  With the other though it is all about a quirkiness which is not there by design but which results in a guitar which does something it is not supposed to.  When it comes to Bozeman-made guitars I can find that top drawer example of this or that particular model although it may still take a bit of looking to find that one instrument which has that extra bit of gusto or maybe a bit more of a cracklin' edge to it which pushes it to the forefront.  When it comes to the other category that is a much harder row to hoe even when it comes to pre-1950 guitars.  

[BluesKing777]

I often wonder what the thinking was with Ren and co in Montana when they went for the 1.725” nut and 2 3/16” bridge space on most modern models?

Where there other acoustic guitar brands with that arrangement at the time? Or some other reason?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[MissouriPicker]

Vintage guitar means old guitar(and all the potential problems that come with it.  I’ve never heard a guitar (old or new) that was vastly better sounding than other guitars I’ve owned/own.  If you like a guitar and it represents who you are as a person, the terms “vintage” and “new” don’t mean much.   If you like it, you like it.  If you don’t like it, find another guitar.

[babydaddymusic]

7 hours ago, rustystrings said:

FWIW, I spent decades in the vintage guitar catch-and-release program, owned a couple of hundred guitars through the years and played probably thousands more.  I had Gibsons built between 1932 or so and 1975, notably including a 1950 J-45 and a 1960 LG-2.  I spent a lot of money through the years putting many of them back to rights, and I don't regret doing that, as they taught me a lot about what I like in guitars, and those instruments are probably still going strong for their current owners.

I don't own any of those guitars anymore, though.

Today, the '05 J-45 I bought new off the wall of a Guitar Center nearly 16 years ago is simply the very best guitar in the world - for ME.  I've gotten to play it and hear it develop its own voice, more than fulfilling the potential I heard that first day.  It wasn't meant to be a financial investment - though it is worth more now as a used, non-vintage guitar than I paid for it - and it doesn't convey the instant "authenticity" of a heavily worn (or relic'ed) finish.  All of its stories are my stories as well.  This one is MINE, though, and it feels like it has influenced me into the way I play today.  It might not nail all the genres I wander through perfectly, but it sure sounds great trying to.

The renaissance of Gibson acoustics and the creation of the Bozeman facility was all about recapturing the best of the vintage guitars in a more consistent way using the latest technology to create a little more time for final careful assembly of traditional materials, a further evolution of things like when the folks in Kalamazoo started using routers to cut smoother, more even and consistent neck pockets.  My perception is that there has been a serious effort to duplicate what worked best in the past and combine it with what works best today.

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that there are perfect guitars and pig guitars built in any era.  Stack onto that the variations between individual guitars of the exact same make and model built in the same week and it gets easier to discount the precise vintage - at least, if the primary goal is to find an instrument you love.  Just for fun, check out this video and hear how five identical new J-45 Standards all have their own distinctive voices - 

 

Life is too short to keep guitars you don't really love.

 

 

This post is so helpful to me. I am going to post an update as I got the J45 back with the bone saddle. But this is a great post and I really appreciate you taking the time!