Arthritis?

[merciful-evans]

(Thumb osteoarthritis)  I finally got a hydrocortisone injection for my left thumb. At first it felt great, but that was the anaesthetic that goes with it working. As it wore off it got a bit painful. After a couple of days I could feel a definite improvement. The pain is still there but not (so far!) the searing sharp stabs that come & go. 

I choose the left hand 1st because I consider the right hand more important to my guitar playing (I am right handed).  After a month or so I'll get another appointment to see how it goes and consider getting the right hand done. 

Its true that the injections don't always work. My friend Maureen had the injections more than 10 years ago and has had no bother since. Lucky gal!

I myself am glad of the improvement. I still don't use my thumb to support the neck but I suppose that's what I'm used too now. 

 

[B.T.]

On 12/5/2023 at 7:56 AM, merciful-evans said:

(Thumb osteoarthritis)  I finally got a hydrocortisone injection for my left thumb. At first it felt great, but that was the anaesthetic that goes with it working. As it wore off it got a bit painful. After a couple of days I could feel a definite improvement. The pain is still there but not (so far!) the searing sharp stabs that come & go. 

I choose the left hand 1st because I consider the right hand more important to my guitar playing (I am right handed).  After a month or so I'll get another appointment to see how it goes and consider getting the right hand done. 

Its true that the injections don't always work. My friend Maureen had the injections more than 10 years ago and has had no bother since. Lucky gal!

I myself am glad of the improvement. I still don't use my thumb to support the neck but I suppose that's what I'm used too now. 

 

Same problem.
I’m getting a cortisone shot in my left thumb next Wednesday. I’ve think I’ve tried almost everything mentioned in this thread and probably a few that haven’t been! The best thing so far is Diclofenac Topical Gel. 
I could get some moderate relief but nothing that would last. I’ve seen my Dr. twice prior and both of us figured it would eventually be necessary to get the shot. 
I have a lot of arthritis - neck, low back, right knee and foot. Cortisone shots have been very effective and generally work for a couple years or more. Here’s hoping! It’ll be the best Christmas present I could get! 
 

[merciful-evans]

8 hours ago, B.T. said:

Same problem.
I’m getting a cortisone shot in my left thumb next Wednesday. I’ve think I’ve tried almost everything mentioned in this thread and probably a few that haven’t been! The best thing so far is Diclofenac Topical Gel. 
I could get some moderate relief but nothing that would last. I’ve seen my Dr. twice prior and both of us figured it would eventually be necessary to get the shot. 
I have a lot of arthritis - neck, low back, right knee and foot. Cortisone shots have been very effective and generally work for a couple years or more. Here’s hoping! It’ll be the best Christmas present I could get! 
 

Good luck then, & happy xmas!

 

[DanvillRob]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:56 AM, merciful-evans said:

(Thumb osteoarthritis)  I finally got a hydrocortisone injection for my left thumb. At first it felt great, but that was the anaesthetic that goes with it working. As it wore off it got a bit painful. After a couple of days I could feel a definite improvement. The pain is still there but not (so far!) the searing sharp stabs that come & go. 

I choose the left hand 1st because I consider the right hand more important to my guitar playing (I am right handed).  After a month or so I'll get another appointment to see how it goes and consider getting the right hand done. 

Its true that the injections don't always work. My friend Maureen had the injections more than 10 years ago and has had no bother since. Lucky gal!

I myself am glad of the improvement. I still don't use my thumb to support the neck but I suppose that's what I'm used too now. 

 

I tried the cortisone shot in my left thumb....it changed the pain, but didn't really make it better..... I chose to not continue down that road.

Now, it's just Voltaren & Nabumetone.

 

[Notes_Norton]

I don't know why people don't try the diet. I guess taste buds are more important than painful hands.

[B.T.]

On 12/22/2023 at 10:11 PM, B.T. said:

Same problem.
I’m getting a cortisone shot in my left thumb next Wednesday. I’ve think I’ve tried almost everything mentioned in this thread and probably a few that haven’t been! The best thing so far is Diclofenac Topical Gel. 
I could get some moderate relief but nothing that would last. I’ve seen my Dr. twice prior and both of us figured it would eventually be necessary to get the shot. 
I have a lot of arthritis - neck, low back, right knee and foot. Cortisone shots have been very effective and generally work for a couple years or more. Here’s hoping! It’ll be the best Christmas present I could get! 
 

Follow up - I got the shot the Wednesday after Christmas. The first couple days were quite painful - more than the actual joint pain  itself - but after a week the pain has subsided to the point that I don't even think about it until I stress it  and even then it is very tolerable.  I've been able to play the guitar almost pain free! First time in the last year or so and really hoping it continues.  Also - regarding diet and supplements - I've tried most of them but it hasn't given me any noticeable relief. Possibly due to the lack of cartilage in my thumb. Dr. says it's gone! Regardless - Lord willing I'll find a way to keep playing!! This might be it!! Now if someone can just fix my hearing.....

[PrairieDog]

On 12/25/2023 at 12:02 PM, Notes_Norton said:

I don't know why people don't try the diet. I guess taste buds are more important than painful hands.

Well, probably because there are huge differences in joint pain and their causes.  Diet may help with inflammatory related pain, where the joint is otherwise intact, but something is angering it, like an auto-immune disease.   Chronic inflammation can lead to permanent damage, so yeah, you want to tamp that down before it gets to that point.  However diet can’t do diddly for structural causes like lost cartilage, misalignment, bone spurs, connective tissue tears or mis-healed breaks.  All the carrot juice in the world won’t set a broken leg straight, chuckle.  

Edited January 5 by PrairieDog

[DanvillRob]

10 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

Well, probably because there are huge differences in joint pain and their causes.  Diet may help with inflammatory related pain, where the joint is otherwise intact, but something is angering it, like an auto-immune disease.   Chronic inflammation can lead to permanent damage, so yeah, you want to tamp that down before it gets to that point.  However diet can’t do diddly for structural causes like lost cartilage, misalignment, bone spurs, connective tissue tears or mis-healed breaks.  All the carrot juice in the world won’t set a broken leg straight, chuckle.  

My arthritis started in my left thumb maybe 10-12 years ago.    About 3 years ago I finally got an x-ray of my hands and the doctor said, "They're simply worn out".    The pain is still manageable, but more and more areas of pain happening now.   Middle finger on both hands as well as both thumbs....it's just a matter of time.

[PrairieDog]

11 minutes ago, DanvillRob said:

My arthritis started in my left thumb maybe 10-12 years ago.    About 3 years ago I finally got an x-ray of my hands and the doctor said, "They're simply worn out".    The pain is still manageable, but more and more areas of pain happening now.   Middle finger on both hands as well as both thumbs....it's just a matter of time.

Nod, it happens.  I have arthritis in both my knees that started in my twenties after I smashed my knee cap in Jr high and it was never treated.  The wear and tear from dragging the non-functional leg around for six months took out my good knee.  

When I broke my hip at 33, the doc recommended I have both knees replaced when she saw how they couldn’t handle the hip PT.  If I had done it back then, I’d be on my second set of replacements. I’m still hanging on with the original equipment.  My career is a physical job that requires a lot of repetitive crouching.  One job, the gal working next to me finally asked to be moved because she couldn’t handle the ripping/tearing noises my knees make with every stoop.  

I have the left thumb arthritis from a joint break that got treated too late, again jr. high.   Doc told me at the time it would eventually go arthritic by 40-50 unless I had it re-broken and reset and even then he couldn’t guarantee anything. I chose not to, as after all, at 13, that was so far off I expected to be dead by then, chuckle.  

Add on just the normal wearing out everything else, and yeah, it’s a hoot growing old.   Really hope your helps keep helping.  So far, I manage with mind tricks, and gritting my teeth, eye roll.  

[DanvillRob]

39 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

Nod, it happens.  I have arthritis in both my knees that started in my twenties after I smashed my knee cap in Jr high and it was never treated.  The wear and tear from dragging the non-functional leg around for six months took out my good knee.  

When I broke my hip at 33, the doc recommended I have both knees replaced when she saw how they couldn’t handle the hip PT.  If I had done it back then, I’d be on my second set of replacements. I’m still hanging on with the original equipment.  My career is a physical job that requires a lot of repetitive crouching.  One job, the gal working next to me finally asked to be moved because she couldn’t handle the ripping/tearing noises my knees make with every stoop.  

I have the left thumb arthritis from a joint break that got treated too late, again jr. high.   Doc told me at the time it would eventually go arthritic by 40-50 unless I had it re-broken and reset and even then he couldn’t guarantee anything. I chose not to, as after all, at 13, that was so far off I expected to be dead by then, chuckle.  

Add on just the normal wearing out everything else, and yeah, it’s a hoot growing old.   Really hope your helps keep helping.  So far, I manage with mind tricks, and gritting my teeth, eye roll.  

You must have gone to one hellacious jr. high school!

[PrairieDog]

42 minutes ago, DanvillRob said:

You must have gone to one hellacious jr. high school!

The school was a bit of a circus, I handled it as best a small, nerdy, creative kid could.  But it took me a couple decades to stop and wonder, “umm, where the heck was my mom while her crippled kid limped around for half a year?” Wry smile.

Years before, when I was four, I was going septic from limping around for weeks on piece of sewing needle I stepped on that finally worked its way into the bone.  Maybe she just thought “hey, kids limp?” Eye roll.  The sadist she finally took me to, first tried to cut it out cold, no novocaine. I accidentally kicked him in the face when I yelled and recoiled from the searing pain. He swore and scolded me, “stop being a baby.”  Finally took surgery under general anesthetic to get it out.  Apparently, he still held that kick against me when my HMO booked me into his office 12 years later.  His horrified nurse who witnessed his treatment of again a very painful appointment asked, after he left, if I wanted to file a complaint.  I just got the hell out of there. 

Edited January 5 by PrairieDog

[DanvillRob]

11 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

The school was a bit of a circus, I handled it as best a small, nerdy, creative kid could.  But it took me a couple decades to stop and wonder, “umm, where the heck was my mom while her crippled kid limped around for half a year?” Wry smile.

Years before, when I was four, I was going septic from limping around for weeks on piece of sewing needle I stepped on that finally worked its way into the bone.  Maybe she just thought “hey, kids limp?” Eye roll.  The sadist she finally took me to, first tried to cut it out cold, no novocaine. I accidentally kicked him in the face when I yelled and recoiled from the searing pain. He swore and scolded me, “stop being a baby.”  Finally took surgery under general anesthetic to get it out.  Apparently, he still held that kick against me when my HMO booked me into his office 12 years later.  His horrified nurse who witnessed his treatment of again a very painful appointment asked, after he left, if I wanted to file a complaint.  I just got the hell out of there. 

That's why they call it "practicing" medicine!

Today I suspect that butcher would have a boat-load of malpractice suits against him!

[Notes_Norton]

19 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

Well, probably because there are huge differences in joint pain and their causes.  Diet may help with inflammatory related pain, where the joint is otherwise intact, but something is angering it, like an auto-immune disease.   Chronic inflammation can lead to permanent damage, so yeah, you want to tamp that down before it gets to that point.  However diet can’t do diddly for structural causes like lost cartilage, misalignment, bone spurs, connective tissue tears or mis-healed breaks.  All the carrot juice in the world won’t set a broken leg straight, chuckle.  

Before I went on the diet, I couldn't walk two blocks without sitting to rest, I couldn't drive 5 minutes without a blue ice pack behind my hip, and I needed a barstool to gig.

After a month on the diet, I was much better. Now I can walk miles with no problem, I can drive all day without any ice, and I bring a stool to work, and only use it when I'm using the wah pedal for an entire song. I really don't need the stool at all, but I have more control over the wah when sitting.

My neighbor was walking her dog, and hobbling with a cane. I gave her the diet, and in a month she was cane free. About six months later, she was using the cane again. I asked her about it, and she said, “I just couldn't give up my pasta and ice cream.”

I don't suspect everyone will benefit from the diet. What I asked is I don't understand why more people don't try it. If it works, you are pain free. If it doesn't, you gave up some favorite foods for a couple of months.

The diet was given to me by a doctor who believed in trying natural approaches before pharmaceuticals, and the last resort should be something invasive like surgery.

- - - - - -

Here is something else you can try.

PEMFT, Pulsed ElectroMagnetic Field Therapy. My bro-in-law works for investment brokers. They financed a guy who was building PEMFT machines for a clinic. We brought my Mother-in-law there, as she had Parkinson's, and it helped her with that. In the clinic, they use it for arthritis, too.

But it was an hour's drive, so he recommended if you look for a home unit make sure
(1) it radiates a square wave
(2) the square wave is North polarity and
(3) it is at a low frequency, between 1 and 25 cycles per second (Hz).

For arthritis, as I understand it, the theory is this. — Calcium is paramagnetic. It responds to a magnetic field, but doesn't stay magnetic. He said that the pulsed magnetic field loosens the calcium deposits in the joints, and if you drink copious amounts of water immediately following the session, it will wash the calcium out in your urine.

Mother-in-law took the home device with her to West Virginia in her last years, but I remember this information and plan to use it if my arthritis and bursitis comes back. But 20 years later, it still hasn't come back, thanks to the diet.

But if anyone wants to eat donuts and other foods instead of living pain free and playing guitar, it's their choice.

I just don't understand why more people don't give it a 2 or 3 month trial.

There are foods I miss, but I don't miss needing an ice block behind my hip to drive, living on Advils, and not being able to walk for more than two blocks.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

 

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, Notes_Norton said:

Before I went on the diet, I couldn't walk two blocks without sitting to rest, I couldn't drive 5 minutes without a blue ice pack behind my hip, and I needed a barstool to gig.

After a month on the diet, I was much better. Now I can walk miles with no problem, I can drive all day without any ice, and I bring a stool to work, and only use it when I'm using the wah pedal for an entire song. I really don't need the stool at all, but I have more control over the wah when sitting.

My neighbor was walking her dog, and hobbling with a cane. I gave her the diet, and in a month she was cane free. About six months later, she was using the cane again. I asked her about it, and she said, “I just couldn't give up my pasta and ice cream.”

I don't suspect everyone will benefit from the diet. What I asked is I don't understand why more people don't try it. If it works, you are pain free. If it doesn't, you gave up some favorite foods for a couple of months.

The diet was given to me by a doctor who believed in trying natural approaches before pharmaceuticals, and the last resort should be something invasive like surgery.

- - - - - -

Here is something else you can try.

PEMFT, Pulsed ElectroMagnetic Field Therapy. My bro-in-law works for investment brokers. They financed a guy who was building PEMFT machines for a clinic. We brought my Mother-in-law there, as she had Parkinson's, and it helped her with that. In the clinic, they use it for arthritis, too.

But it was an hour's drive, so he recommended if you look for a home unit make sure
(1) it radiates a square wave
(2) the square wave is North polarity and
(3) it is at a low frequency, between 1 and 25 cycles per second (Hz).

For arthritis, as I understand it, the theory is this. — Calcium is paramagnetic. It responds to a magnetic field, but doesn't stay magnetic. He said that the pulsed magnetic field loosens the calcium deposits in the joints, and if you drink copious amounts of water immediately following the session, it will wash the calcium out in your urine.

Mother-in-law took the home device with her to West Virginia in her last years, but I remember this information and plan to use it if my arthritis and bursitis comes back. But 20 years later, it still hasn't come back, thanks to the diet.

But if anyone wants to eat donuts and other foods instead of living pain free and playing guitar, it's their choice.

I just don't understand why more people don't give it a 2 or 3 month trial.

There are foods I miss, but I don't miss needing an ice block behind my hip to drive, living on Advils, and not being able to walk for more than two blocks.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

 

Yeah, I get what you are saying, all I was observing is those of us who know that x injury, or x musculoskeletal factors are causing our pain aren’t going to bother trying a diet as we understand that a diet is not going to alter structure and you can’t cure pain in general by just eliminating certain foods. Our nervous systems don’t respond like that, unless there is a real diet/immune system trigger going on.  The PEMFT sounds a lot like a common TENS unit (I was one of the lucky early trials when I broke my hip. I was at the university where it was being developed and tested.)  It was a god send and worked great to mask the pain my knees were giving me while I did the hip re-hab.  I couldn’t walk across the room without a walker.  she hooked me up and I sailed across the room and then danced a little jig.  You can buy them at Walgreens/CVS/drug stores now for around 50 bucks.  The only concern is they work so well you have to be careful and be well healed or monitor yourself.  Otherwise you can end up reinjuring or aggravating the condition you are using it for, because you aren’t aware of the pain. 

Edited January 6 by PrairieDog

[B.T.]

Hey Notes -

I am interested in the specifics of your diet - I've tried a lot of others and am consistently on a low carb diet as I raised two sons with juvenile diabetes  - any way you can send it to me? Happy to provide an email -

[Notes_Norton]

I've been low carb / keto for years. I was already on much of this diet. I think for me, eliminating Chicken and Egg Yolks did the trick.

From what I've read since, the reason factory chicken/eggs are so high in arachidonic acid is being mostly corn fed. Chickens should be eating seeds and insects, not fruit (corn is actually a fruit). But I don't know that to be a fact.

Here it is:

For both arthritis and bursitis, treatment is similar:

Try the dietary approach first, and if that doesn't work, take stronger action.

Foods that may contribute to chronic inflammation are foods with a high glycemic index (foods that convert to sugar quickly), such as fruit juices, sugars, simple starches, or rice cakes, foods heavy in polyunsaturated or saturated fats, and foods high in arachidonic acid. Some specific foods to avoid are:

    * Fatty cuts of red meat (high in saturated fats) lean is good
    * Organ meats: liver, kidney, and so forth (very high in arachidonic acid)
    * Egg yolks (very high in arachidonic acid)
    * Poultry - chicken, duck, turkey (very high in arachidonic acid)
    * Pasta (high glycemic index)
    * Juices (high glycemic index)
    * Rice, especially rice cakes (high glycemic index)
    * White bread (substitute whole grain breads such as rye)
    * Nightshade Plants bother many people (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, peppers, paprika)

Glycemic index charts can be found on the Internet.

Better choices are foods with a low glycemic index and foods that are heavy in monounsaturated fats. Some specific good foods are:

    * Salmon and other fish
    * Oatmeal
    * Low glycemic fresh fruits and vegetables
    * Olives and olive oil
    * Peanuts and other nuts
    * Whey proteins
    * Lean beef is good, 100% grass fed is better

[PrairieDog]

52 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

I've been low carb / keto for years. I was already on much of this diet. I think for me, eliminating Chicken and Egg Yolks did the trick.From what I've read since, the reason factory chicken/eggs are so high in arachidonic acid is being mostly corn fed. Chickens should be eating seeds and insects, not fruit (corn is actually a fruit). But I don't know that to be a fact.
 

Just mentioning, there are alternatives to factory birds that might work for you.

Small farm Pasture raised chickens have a far more varied diet since they get to eat anything they fancy, so far less corn, if any, is stuffed in ‘em.  Same with free-range, pastured eggs.  We fed our little back yard flock of layer hens oats and barley but they mostly ran around the yard eating bugs and seeds. 

Note “pasture raised” is different from “cage free” which is just the birds jammed together, milling about on the floor of the barn. Some might have flaps that open on the edge so the outermost ones get a bit of daylight or outside time.  But it’s not the same as running free in fresh air all day.  Just be aware there will be actual dark meat from using their muscles, just like chicken your grandma used to serve. 

Most better grocery stores will carry some true pasture raised for meat and eggs. In a lot of areas you can hook up directly with a farmer to supply you.  You pay a premium, but it might be worth it to try. The chicken and eggs have that wonderful rich flavor I remember as a kid.  

As you said, you also want to go with all-grass fed beef. Regular cattle are raised on the same corn that goes into chickens.  However, you want to check the supplier doesn’t graze on grass, but then finish on corn…  That is a trick to get a heavier weight on the animal.  Grass fed beef is lean, so it takes a bit of adjusting to cooking, but it tastes so much better.  Again, bigger stores and local vendors can set you up.  

Pasture raised/grass fed that provides varied diets and exercise for the animals avoids many of the associated health drawbacks of factory farm sourced products.   Some folks are even lucky enough to get chickens and hogs free-ranged under hazelnuts for forage which is supposed to be a whole other plane of eating.  

Edited January 6 by PrairieDog

[Notes_Norton]

On 1/6/2024 at 10:59 AM, PrairieDog said:

However, you want to check the supplier doesn’t graze on grass, but then finish on corn…

Most definitely, that's why I make sure it's 100% grass-fed and grass-finished beef.

I went on the arthritis/bursitis diet in the 1990s, and am still pain free. I'm also very low-carb / ketogenic.

Since then, I've had fried chicken perhaps 3 times. If I could fine non-corn fed chickens, I'd love to eat eggs again. But I'd rather play guitar and saxophone than eat eggs. 24/7/365 pain free is better than a moment on the tongue.

My current doctor does my yearly blood test, tells me everything is in the normal zone, calls me an easy patient, and says, “See you next year.”

Obviously, the diet agrees with me.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[PrairieDog]

14 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

Most definitely, that's why I make sure it's 100% grass-fed and grass-finished beef.

I went on the arthritis/bursitis diet in the 1990s, and am still pain free. I'm also very low-carb / ketogenic.

Since then, I've had fried chicken perhaps 3 times. If I could fine non-corn fed chickens, I'd love to eat eggs again. But I'd rather play guitar and saxophone than eat eggs. 24/7/365 pain free is better than a moment on the tongue.

My current doctor does my yearly blood test, tells me everything is in the normal zone, calls me an easy patient, and says, “See you next year.”

Obviously, the diet agrees with me.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

If you have any farmer’s markets, or organic coops near you, check them out for corn-free chicken and eggs. Lots of small farmers and organic growers are switching to corn free feeds. It’s a good niche for them. At their size they can provide the alternatives folks are looking for.  And just fyi, you gotta watch your fish source too.  Farmed fish like salmon are fed pellets that can contain corn.  If you ever have strange flare ups, look back to whether you ate any assumed ‘safe’ fish.  

Edited January 9 by PrairieDog

[Notes_Norton]

Thanks.

I don't eat farmed fish, nor breeds with extreme mercury content. Cod and Haddock are my favorites. My wife likes Salmon best. We are careful of the source and get them at a trusted fish market. I gave up shrimp because it's mostly farmed, too.

I try to limit my processed foods as well. I shop around the perimeter of the grocery store.

My coffee cream is organic, the cheese I eat is non GMO and mostly from Europe where they have A2 cows, which are also grass fed.

Organic veggies when I can, too. I don't drink bottled water or any sugar laced soft drinks. Mostly water, tea, coffee, and a bit of red wine.

I eat a keto diet, fewer than 20 carbs per day, and twice as much fat as protein.

All my blood work is in the normal zone, I'm on zero prescription medications, and a heart doc told me I have the circulatory system of a healthy person 25 years my junior. For a man of my age, that's rare and my doc calls me "An easy patient."

And my arthritis and bursitis is about 99% gone. Every now and then I might get a slight ache in the hip or a finger that I hurt playing basketball as a youth. That usually happens after vacations, when I forget about my diet and eat what the local people eat. Often that includes things on my no-no list. But I only vacation once a year, and I want to be there, not here.

Without good health, you have nothing.

When both my parents died too early due to obesity related diseases, I saw that as a possible future for me. I decided that I'm having a ball here, and as much as people tell me there is life after death, there is no proof. So I want to hang out here as long as I can.

If there is that promised land, I try to be a good person, so I go to the paradise. I guess I'm playing the odds for both life after and nothing after.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫