Possible to remove electronics on gibson acoustic?

[slyfox]

I can appreciate Gibson has installed as discreetly as possible pickups in most of their models...or coincidently the models I am most interested in owning...

 

I'll probably never plug the guitar in and would ideally prefer if I could just get the same model without but seems there are only a couple models or historic versions free of electronics but then they are rather significant premium in price vs the standard or original versions.

Is it easy to remove the under saddle bridge and tone/volume controls from the sound hole?

I'd prefer to get a hummingbird (I think that's what I want, at least this week anyways) remove the electronics and put them in the case and put back in if I ever wanted or needed to...not if it's an intrusive procedure though.

[BigYellowOne]

I’ve taken a few pickups out and if you have an under saddle pickup, it’s normally simple to remove but there’s a couple things to think about. 

(The volume/tone control is likely just stuck on with double sided 3m foam tape.)

1- You’ll probably need a new saddle cut to compensate for the missing height. 
 

2- Some under saddle pickups drop in from the top and some feed up from the bottom. Easier is if it feeds up from the bottom then everything just slips out the end pin. If the transducer feeds from the top you have to separate it from the preamp/control/whatever. No big deal, just keep future plans in mind (in other words, don’t just chop the wire an inch from the pickup if you want to use it again)

[J185cat]

I have done this to one of my J45’s. Simply pulled the UST back down into the body and started clipping wires. I also replaced the end jack with a rosewood end pin that I bought from Bob Colossi. I had a new bone saddle and fitted that up to my desired height. The only thing I left was the volume pot as I was afraid I would damage the wood near the sound hole removing it. Never have regretted it and yes this should be an option.

[dhanners623]

I had the Baggs Element system removed from my 2016 J-35. It’s a good pickup, but I just don’t like 9V batteries in my guitars. Had the endpin jack replaced with a NoJak endpin from StewMac. It was a great move for the guitar; it just felt lighter and the top seemed more vibrant. Now, if I need to amplify it, I use a Baggs M1.

One note of caution, though — The Element’s tone and volume control was actually glued to the underside near the soundhole. I thought it would’ve been stuck on with double-sided tape, but the shop that did the work (St. Paul Guitar Repair in St. Paul, MN) said it was actually glued in. They figured Gibson was finding the double-sided tape wasn’t doing the job so they started gluing them in.

[J185cat]

1 hour ago, dhanners623 said:

I had the Baggs Element system removed from my 2016 J-35. It’s a good pickup, but I just don’t like 9V batteries in my guitars. Had the endpin jack replaced with a NoJak endpin from StewMac. It was a great move for the guitar; it just felt lighter and the top seemed more vibrant. Now, if I need to amplify it, I use a Baggs M1.

One note of caution, though — The Element’s tone and volume control was actually glued to the underside near the soundhole. I thought it would’ve been stuck on with double-sided tape, but the shop that did the work (St. Paul Guitar Repair in St. Paul, MN) said it was actually glued in. They figured Gibson was finding the double-sided tape wasn’t doing the job so they started gluing them in.

When I removed mine the last thing I tried to get was the volume control. I was expecting it to come off easy but when I saw how much resistance there was I decided to just leave it alone. Now I understand.

[G Man]

I pulled to UST from my 2003 J45 and never looked back.  As mentioned, a new saddle will be needed after doing the job.

[Sgt. Pepper]

Question,  how many acoustic guitars for sale don't have electronics if your just going to rip it out? Why pay for what your not going to use?

Am I missing something?

[Boyd]

3 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Question,  how many acoustic guitars for sale don't have electronics

Quite a few (most?) Gibson acoustics include pickups from the factory, which is something I dislike. When I was in the market around 10 years ago, I was surprised that a search at Guitar Center for "acoustic guitars" didn't find any Gibsons. Turned out that I needed to search for "acoustic electric" guitars to find them!

When I got a used 2008 J-50 back in 2014, first thing I did was have a luthier do a setup and remove all the electronics. Got a 2020 60's Original J-50 in 2021 and that is one of the few models that didn't come with a pickup. It was a very lightly used guitar, would have thought it was new if I didn't know. But the previous owner had added a soundboard transducer pickup which I removed because it caused RF interference with dynamic microphones. There wasn't any issue with setup, since it was mounted inside the guitar, but the transducers were super-glued to the bridge plate and almost impossible to completely remove. That was weird.

[Silversurfer]

Start by removing all the strings completely. If you just don’t want a UST under the saddle, remove the saddle and you see the Element UST. It’s a thin braided wire.  Use toothpick or mini screw driver to lift it up.  You can then just push the Element through its hole in the saddle slot, replace the saddle with a slightly taller one and just let the Element “hang” inside the guitar.  The clips hold the rest of the wires, so it’s not going anywhere and if you ever want to put it back, just push it back up through the hole.

If you want to take out the whole thing permanently, do the same as above, unscrew the endpin jack cover and remove the nut at the endpin jack. To remove the volume/tone control, push a razor blade to cut between the volume/ tone control and guitar - come at it from different angles and it’ll pop right off. Remove the battery and bag and if you want, remove the wiring clips. You’ll need a large oversized endpin to plug the hole.  Bob Colossi makes a nice wood one. It requires a bit of sanding to fit, but it looks much better than the Stew Mac gizmo.

 

[J185cat]

3 hours ago, Silversurfer said:

Start by removing all the strings completely. If you just don’t want a UST under the saddle, remove the saddle and you see the Element UST. It’s a thin braided wire.  Use toothpick or mini screw driver to lift it up.  You can then just push the Element through its hole in the saddle slot, replace the saddle with a slightly taller one and just let the Element “hang” inside the guitar.  The clips hold the rest of the wires, so it’s not going anywhere and if you ever want to put it back, just push it back up through the hole.

If you want to take out the whole thing permanently, do the same as above, unscrew the endpin jack cover and remove the nut at the endpin jack. To remove the volume/tone control, push a razor blade to cut between the volume/ tone control and guitar - come at it from different angles and it’ll pop right off. Remove the battery and bag and if you want, remove the wiring clips. You’ll need a large oversized endpin to plug the hole.  Bob Colossi makes a nice wood one. It requires a bit of sanding to fit, but it looks much better than the Stew Mac gizmo.

 

On one of my J45’s I did just as you described by pulling the UST back into the body of the guitar and then using a small wire tie I strapped it to some of the other wires so it wouldn’t rattle around in there. I did this just in case I ever decided to sell the guitar, it would be easy to undue.

My other J45 I just took everything out except the volume control. After reading your process I may now try that. I also got one of those end pins from Colossi. Apparently he made a few rosewood ones and I got one of those. Just took my time sanding it down to a snug fit and also used very fine grade sandpaper to polish the visible part. Looks great! Really nice write up by the way.

[BigYellowOne]

On 6/28/2023 at 8:17 PM, J185cat said:

When I removed mine the last thing I tried to get was the volume control. I was expecting it to come off easy but when I saw how much resistance there was I decided to just leave it alone. Now I understand.

Yikes- I’m glad you all chimed in on that point. I haven’t done a Gibson removal and would have never guess they glued it. 

[RBSinTo]

As a sidebar to this discussion, I have a 2001 j-45 that I bought used (I am the third owner) about six years ago.

It came with an input jack, but no other electronics or their installation scars that I can see.

As I cannot seem to find any information on when Gibson began to put pick-ups in the j-45, I don't know if the jack was factory-installed, or put in after the fact. I'd appreciate if anyone could enlighten me as to when j-45's could be purchased with factory installed pick-ups.

RBSinTo

 

[gearbasher]

12 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

As a sidebar to this discussion, I have a 2001 j-45 that I bought used (I am the third owner) about six years ago.

It came with an input jack, but no other electronics or their installation scars that I can see.

As I cannot seem to find any information on when Gibson began to put pick-ups in the j-45, I don't know if the jack was factory-installed, or put in after the fact. I'd appreciate if anyone could enlighten me as to when j-45's could be purchased with factory installed pick-ups.

RBSinTo

 

I had a 1999 J-45 Rosewood with a factory installed pick-up. I'm 99% sure it was a Fishman.

[RBSinTo]

Gearbasher,

Thanks for the information.

Your answer indicates that my j-45 could have been built with factory installed electronics that were subsequently removed.

RBSinTo

[J185cat]

29 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

Gearbasher,

Thanks for the information.

Your answer indicates that my j-45 could have been built with factory installed electronics that were subsequently removed.

RBSinTo

If it is of any interest to you I can recommend one of those Colossi wooden end pins to replace the jack. If it doesn’t matter, then you probably have your priorities in order so play on!

[RBSinTo]

13 hours ago, J185cat said:

If it is of any interest to you I can recommend one of those Colossi wooden end pins to replace the jack. If it doesn’t matter, then you probably have your priorities in order so play on!

J185cat,

Thanks for the recommendation, but it isn't necessary.

After buying the guitar,  I quickly found that the flange on the jack wasn't large enough to safely hold a guitar strap, so I made an endpin from Epoxy, using a decorative candle to make a mold.

It has been in place for the six or seven years I've owned the instrument, and the strap has never slipped or come off.

RBSinTo

Edited July 1, 2023 by RBSinTo

[Larsongs]

Why would you want to bother removing? Just don’t use it.. If you ever sell you’ll lose money or have to reinstall.. Too each his own I guess…

I find the Electronics a huge “Plus” & use for playing live & recording.. In some cases I also add Mics & get a great blended Sound. 

[dhanners623]

5 hours ago, Larsongs said:

Why would you want to bother removing? Just don’t use it.. If you ever sell you’ll lose money or have to reinstall.. Too each his own I guess…

I find the Electronics a huge “Plus” & use for playing live & recording.. In some cases I also add Mics & get a great blended Sound. 

While pickup systems differ, I’ve never had a guitar sound worse after removing a pickup. They always sound better. Isn’t that our aim? You’re better off anytime you can remove whatever is between the saddle and the floor of the saddle slot. Plus, if they are active pickups, there’s probably a 9V battery stuck in the guitar somewhere. Getting rid of all that weight is a big plus. And let’s face it — we play our guitars unplugged the great majority of the time.

When I play out (probably two or three times a month currently) I much prefer to amplify the guitar with a mic. Just sounds better. That’s not always possible, though, so I carry a Baggs M1.

I know some folks here buy and sell guitars at the drop of a hat, but I don’t, so I’m not worried about resale value.

[Larsongs]

I’ve owned my Martin D-35 since new in 1975… It sounded great new & has improved even more over the years.. The Guitar weighs about 4 1/2 lbs +/-…

About 8-9 years ago I sent it to Martin for Warranty work, refret & a hole repair.. Which was superbly done.. I asked about adding Electronics as I’m a performing Musician & dislike Mic’ing my Acoustic Guitar.. I’m also a Lead Vocalist & do play other Guitars.. There’s just too much clutter on Stage with extra Mics… Martin added their System & I noticed no difference in the Sound unplugged.. The weight is unnoticeable as well. The convenience & sound is great.. 

[dhanners623]

7 hours ago, Larsongs said:

I’ve owned my Martin D-35 since new in 1975… It sounded great new & has improved even more over the years.. The Guitar weighs about 4 1/2 lbs +/-…

About 8-9 years ago I sent it to Martin for Warranty work, refret & a hole repair.. Which was superbly done.. I asked about adding Electronics as I’m a performing Musician & dislike Mic’ing my Acoustic Guitar.. I’m also a Lead Vocalist & do play other Guitars.. There’s just too much clutter on Stage with extra Mics… Martin added their System & I noticed no difference in the Sound unplugged.. The weight is unnoticeable as well. The convenience & sound is great.. 

All that would be covered in my introductory qualifier, “While pickup systems differ….”

I know some folks don’t like miking their guitars, but players in the bluegrass world (or us folkies) don’t really view the mic stands as “clutter.” I can see how others would, however, and some players just like to move around a lot, which miking a guitar precludes. And the fact is, regardless of what we think about valuable or vintage instruments, audiences really don’t care about the sound of an acoustic guitar. Except for a few gearheads, their judgment comes down to, “I can hear it just fine” or “It’s too loud/quiet.” Ninety-nine percent of the audience doesn’t care if you’re playing a pre-war D-28, a Kalamazoo Gal J-45 or a cheap Asian import. It’s all the same to them: “acoustic.”

(The above doesn’t necessarily apply for some artists who audiences go to see particularly for their virtuosity and tone. I never saw Tony Rice or Norman Blake — or even Gordon Lightfoot — plug in. Conversely, folks like Molly Tuttle and Billy Strings do plug in.)

So for me, it’s a question of how my guitars sound when I sit around playing them. The J-35 felt lighter and, to my ears, sounded better after the pickup/battery/volume&tone control were removed. If I want to play out, I stick the M1 in it. When I do that, the audience doesn’t care if I’m playing the J-35 or my M1-equipped Farida OT-22, which cost a quarter of the J-35 (and sounds pretty decent unplugged).

Edited July 2, 2023 by dhanners623

[slyfox]

So it sounds like it's not that intrusive to remove them but I do take issue with having to likely replace a saddle and probably end pin...then somehow carefully remove glue to take out the electronics I'm never going to use...that's a lot of monkeying around on a brand new $5399 CDN (plus tax) guitar.  I might option to leave them in...

 

In my opinion, Gibson tends to cater a lot to its storied history so I'm surprised they jam electronics in all of their acoustics because to me it takes away from its heirloom quality, specifically on an otherwise acoustic instrument.  They should take a lesson from Martin and make it standard without and an option with.  I think all Taylor models are available without electronics but Gibson you have to take it.

 

It also seems I'm not alone in wanting their guitars without electronics so you might think it would be worthwhile to run a focus group with their consumers.  Even if you wanted electronics, pickups are such a personal thing why not just leave it out instead of trying to please everyone with a one size fits all.

Edited July 2, 2023 by slyfox
Addition

[dhanners623]

1 hour ago, slyfox said:

So it sounds like it's not that intrusive to remove them but I do take issue with having to likely replace a saddle and probably end pin...then somehow carefully remove glue to take out the electronics I'm never going to use...that's a lot of monkeying around on a brand new $5399 CDN (plus tax) guitar.  I might option to leave them in...

 

In my opinion, Gibson tends to cater a lot to its storied history so I'm surprised they jam electronics in all of their acoustics because to me it takes away from its heirloom quality, specifically on an otherwise acoustic instrument.  They should take a lesson from Martin and make it standard without and an option with.  I think all Taylor models are available without electronics but Gibson you have to take it.

 

It also seems I'm not alone in wanting their guitars without electronics so you might think it would be worthwhile to run a focus group with their consumers.  Even if you wanted electronics, pickups are such a personal thing why not just leave it out instead of trying to please everyone with a one size fits all.

The other consideration is that pickups continue to evolve. Today’s must-have pickup may be tomorrow’s outdated technology. I’m old enough to remember when some players (including Ricky Skaggs, as I recall) cut holes in the upper bouts of some vintage guitars to install the then-cutting-edge Takamine volume and tone slider controls panels. That was nigh-well irreversible.

[Murph]

26 minutes ago, dhanners623 said:

The other consideration is that pickups continue to evolve. Today’s must-have pickup may be tomorrow’s outdated technology. 

Ain't that the truth!

[Larsongs]

My 2000 Gibson Bozeman Masterbilt J-160E has a Passive System, no Battery, with P90 & Volume & Tone Controls on the body.. It is an old school design from the 50’s & is great..

Technology has added a lot of gizmos & some might sound a little better but the J-160E Electronics design is very functional, easy to use, no batteries, sounds great (especially thru Vox Amps) & is a great looking Guitar… IMO that is the best designed Electronics set up of all Acoustic Electric Guitars.

I don’t play Bluegrass.. But, I get the traditional roots thing about staying completely organic.. But, to do so should there be any Electronics at all?

I loved playing in the Woods completely unplugged when I lived in Minnesota.. My brother & I would play & sing for family & friends round the Campfire in the Woods on Kimble Lake at my Cousins house.. Better times have not been had… 

I also like to perform live.. That does require Electronics.. I don’t like hauling any more Gear than I have to.. Ideally a Guitar in one hand & a small Amp in the other.. Extra Mics, Stands & Cable etc. is more work.. No thanks…

[BigYellowOne]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:39 AM, slyfox said:

So it sounds like it's not that intrusive to remove them but I do take issue with having to likely replace a saddle and probably end pin...then somehow carefully remove glue to take out the electronics I'm never going to use...that's a lot of monkeying around on a brand new $5399 CDN (plus tax) guitar.  I might option to leave them in...

 

In my opinion, Gibson tends to cater a lot to its storied history so I'm surprised they jam electronics in all of their acoustics because to me it takes away from its heirloom quality, specifically on an otherwise acoustic instrument.  They should take a lesson from Martin and make it standard without and an option with.  I think all Taylor models are available without electronics but Gibson you have to take it.

 

It also seems I'm not alone in wanting their guitars without electronics so you might think it would be worthwhile to run a focus group with their consumers.  Even if you wanted electronics, pickups are such a personal thing why not just leave it out instead of trying to please everyone with a one size fits all.

Kind of a funny anecdote RE: Gibson factory electronics. 

I have a Hummingbird Historic that has hide glue, long scale, and some other features that were special back in 04/05 and fit with the idea that they made it “like they used to”. 
 

When I bought it, I wanted to lightly sand the saddle to lower the action so I pulled the saddle during a string change and found two surprises- 1) the bridge was drilled for an under saddle pickup even though it didn’t have one- and 2) the saddle was shimmed up with a strip of plastic about the thickness of a pickup. My guitar was a run of 48 guitars that cost about $5k new and they didn’t bother to buy taller stock saddles for them. 
 

I mention that because for the price they’re paying for these basic pickups, they’d probably have to charge extra to sell one without it due to the production process changes required (though they seem minimal). 
 

Some folks would pay extra for the same guitar without the pickup, but probably a very small minority.