Murph Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 It just came to me. In this section of the forum there are dozens of us who would buy a new Standard "TODAY" if it had better bevels, tapers, red paint, ect. And we would have paid $1699.00 too. We just can't get excited about orange ones for $1199.00 without bevels, ect., ect., ect., ect., sheeze. These threads "rule" the SG side of this forum. It never ends. It's been a topic for as long as I can remember, but nothing happens. There is NO WAY this has been missed. It's a business decision. They look this way because Gibson wants them to look this way. I'd be curious to hear Hartley Peavey's thoughts on this........ Bwahahahahahahahahaha..... =P~/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIANTRobOT420 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 It just came to me. In this section of the forum there are dozens of us who would buy a new Standard "TODAY" if it had better bevels' date=' tapers, red paint, ect. And we would have paid $1699.00 too. We just can't get excited about orange ones for $1199.00 without bevels, ect., ect., ect., ect., sheeze. These threads "rule" the SG side of this forum. It never ends. It's been a topic for as long as I can remember, but nothing happens. There is NO WAY this has been missed. It's a business decision. They look this way because Gibson wants them to look this way. I'd be curious to hear Hartley Peavey's thoughts on this........ Bwahahahahahahahahaha..... #-o/ [/quote'] erm, what orange ones? the Zoot Suit **** thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 erm' date=' what orange ones? [/quote'] sigh....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 erm' date=' what orange ones? the Zoot Suit **** thing?[/quote'] Murph is referring to the Heritage Cherry finish as orange because the color isn't dark enough for him. I've seen a few really orange ones too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Bring back the 65 Style Standard in all colors and optional with or w/o maestro for today's standard price and cut back all this multi-colored ply, historic and signature models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG dude Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Bring back the 65 Style Standard in all colors and optional with or w/o maestro for today's standard price and cut back all this multi-colored ply' date=' historic and signature models [/quote'] Hmmm you could be onto something there, If they made them right, we wouldnt need the historic models, and i cant see the zoot suit catching on either. I would love it if they bevelled the Standard models really deep and wide, with a Real cherry finish, and i really love the old witch hat knobs personally, :- but yeah im all for new wacky models if the older ones looked like they should! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG dude Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Come to think of it does ayone that works in Gibson actually use or even look at these forums?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 we wouldnt need the historic models' date='![/quote']they should just put all the best (most widely acepted) physical features on the standard and then let people buy the custom guitars if they want ______ or ______. agree or disagree I dont care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Come to think of it does ayone that works in Gibson actually use or even look at these forums?? shadow.... but then again he doesnt carry too much weight in the design of the guitars.... Shadow' date=' or jocko or ks or someone who can[/size'] could you maybe send a message to gibson to start looking at these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejay Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I loved the Wine Red Standards of the 90s... I myself have the Heritage Cherry. Couldn't afford until 2005. All well, still a great guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I have a couple of Henry-era Gibsons that I love, but I suspect, before long, we'll be talking about the Juszkiewics years the same way we now refer to Norlin. While his team's record has been better so far, there are indicators that the good days are about over. Gibson was a niche manufacturer suffering from management problems when Berlin brought in McCarty, and McCarty's background in the music business, as well as his degree in commercial engineering (not an MBA, note) plus years of experience in a variety of tasks such as real estate acquisition, insurance wrangling and accounting prepared him remarkably well for the sudden boom in guitar popularity in the '50s and '60s. Arnie Berlin and Norton Stevens (both MBAs) took this robust company and, equally affected by the collapse in guitar sales, and a big dose of arrogance, ran Gibson into the ground. Norlin eventually sold Gibson to the HJ team for less than a third of what CBS got for Fender, just a couple of years before, AND the Fender sale included only the tooling and inventory, while the Gibson deal was blood, guts, feathers and all. Henry brought Gibson back from the brink (and, give him credit: if he hadn't stepped in, your new Gibson would now have a little sticker on it saying "Made In China") and did well simply by reviving the older style models from the McCarty era. But it was like the big boom in the music industry when CDs came out: the business was flush to bursting with money made not from promoting new bands or developing talent, but from digitalizing what was already in their catalogs. Pretty quickly, with A&R people disappearing and decisions being made solely by accountants, we were upon the "corporate rock" days. Luckily, the internet has intervened to pump new life -- not into the music companies following the old model -- into the music industry in general. The results are yet to be determined, but it's pretty clear the old days are dead. So HJ traded on the classic Les Pauls, SGs, 335s and Thunderbirds, and started making a profit. But having an MBA is not about understanding craft or the patient development of craftsmen: it's about high stock prices, major marketing deals, and gobs of money. So many local music stores are frozen out of franchises, which go increasingly to big box stores (GC, Best Buy, etc) and the products are dumbed down in order to move the largest volume rather than provide the highest quality instruments for actual musicians. In other words, if you sell 10 Zoot Suit SGs to the parents of teenagers who may or may not develop a lifelong commitment to guitar playing, you have made more money than you would by selling two SGs (of whatever configuration) to nuts like us. Never mind that the original Gibson, in the tens and twenties of the last century, nurtured new buyers with student grade instruments that served to instill brand loyalty, and years of "trading up" to the better instruments of the outfit. Sell it now, sell it fast, and depend on your creative team to come with hot new ideas that, very importantly, have to appear hot only to sub-15 year old males. It annoys me that this "creative team" is so bankrupt of genuinely creative ideas. Instead of useful new products, we get guitars that automatically go in and out of tune, that are 50% glue content, and pianos that look like an especially inept ward of the state was turned loose on them. This doesn't even mention the Gibson Stratocaster (an interesting aside: Ted McCarty once told an interviewer that Leo Fender was a private man, much given to litigation over what he perceived as thefts of his designs. McCarty went on to say that Gibson was proud, and wouldn't deign to steal from any one else -- how times have changed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Has anyone seen any specs on the sales of "Robot" gutiars?! I can't imagine the multi-colored SG's doing much better, if at all. Maybe, if HJ was smart, he'd stick with the "tried and true," of the regular line of Gibson guitars, made "correctly," and to the best possible quality. Problem is, Gibson may have to go to ONLY "Custom Shop," to do that, and command the prices they want/need? They seem to leave the working musicians, to fend for Used Gibson's and/or Epiphones. Or, the countless other Asian made, guitars. Who knows, what they Really think?! They can't be paying much attention, to this forum, though! On SG's alone, we've gone on, ad nauseam, about the proper beveling/scarfing, colors, etc....for...well, as long as I've been here (2 years), and I'll assume a lot longer, than that. Nothing happened, except to create an even more expensive line, rather than just incorporate the changes, in the regular line, and give us what we've asked for, repeatedly, at a more "reasonable" (if that's even a word, in the Gibson pricing vocabulary, anymore) price. CEO's and/or Accountants, that don't listen to their customers, much less their own workers, are soon in "Deep Doo Doo!" Build what people LOVE, and really want to buy, and the bottom line goes up! Instead, they're developing "tech toys!" But...that's just MHO. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well, I hope you're right, Guitarest...but, only time will tell, I guess? If they do, bring out a new line of more "correct" SG's, I certainly hope it will be at a decent price point, within the regular production line, and Not another ultra-expensive "Collector's" edition. Cheers, CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laney1566 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I guess I don't understand the bevel complaint's. I have an 05 and a 06 Standard and best I can remember.( It has been a couple of hours)..They both have bevels. I don't think I would want sharper bevels. My SG's Rock and so does Heritage Cherry. Guess you can't miss what you never had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumrnmuzik Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well I really appreaciate the lessons here... wow ! I picked an SG 'cause I liked the sound, fret board, and it was light weight and appealing to my taste. But I do agree that a bunch of marketing hype is just hype so I don't care if they have that niche, and leave quality instruments alone. I does take the shine off of a good name though. It's kinda like seeing the space shuttle blow up over Texas, I lost some respect for NASA that day, human error or not, but I guess that nobody's perfect. I do have to say this though, I picked up a very nice SG Classic for about $1000 while the American Standard Strat is going for about $200 more and is an easier instrument to build, even if it is still a respectable guitar. Good luck to all you guys pushing for the best SG possible, my hat's off to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumrnmuzik Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well I really appreaciate the lessons here... wow ! I picked an SG 'cause I liked the sound, fret board, and it was light weight and appealing to my taste. But I do agree that a bunch of marketing hype is just hype so I don't care if they have that niche, and leave quality instruments alone. I does take the shine off of a good name though. It's kinda like seeing the space shuttle blow up over Texas, I lost some respect for NASA that day, human error or not, but I guess that nobody's perfect. I do have to say this though, I picked up a very nice SG Classic for about $1000 while the American Standard Strat is going for about $200 more and is an easier instrument to build, even if it is still a respectable guitar. Good luck to all you guys pushing for the best SG possible, my hat's off to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Norlin, the "bad guy" of Gibson history, was notorious for following their own lead, while ignoring the wishes of customers. This led to a lot of oddities, like pancake Les Pauls, volutes, skinny necks (although they share the blame with the post-McCarty, pre-Norlin management for that), and it took a long time for it to sink in that the players were not just consumers, they were players, who had requirements and demands that had to be met. The current Gibson company seems to headed in the same direction. Or maybe it's just that they're listening to the younger guys, instead of us? What a sobering thought! I'm glad I've completed my small collection (LP, SG, 335) before they all start sporting Zoot Suit or Jimi Hendrix piano graphics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 what's so bad about volutes? don't they increase the strength of the neck at the headstock angle point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 what's so bad about volutes? don't they increase the strength of the neck at the headstock angle point? Yeah, now the headstocks just break in front of, or behind the valute! LOL! I don't mind the volutes, really. I have two "Norlin" era LP's '76 Deluxe and '80 Custom. BOTH are Great guitars, and also have volutes...although nice ones...not the oversized and really sharp ones, that some...of that era, had. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 My Norlin LP has the volute, as well as - notably - a custom-made jumbo acoustic that a local luthier built for me. It was an effort to lower warranty returns, and as such, was a perfectly rational decision. Unfortunately, Les Paul fans don't tolerate such nonsense. And, it's probably true that the volute simply shifts the point at which the headstock breaks off! My skepticism regarding Gibson is that they seem to be pursuing short-term sales at the expense of long-term quality. How silly is a Zoot Suit going to look 20 years from now? (of course, they will be all over eBay for inflated prices). McCarty had his share of duds. Just about everything other than the LP, SG, 335, and a few isolated models like the Tal Farlow has not stood the test of time. Firebirds are awkward and, let's face it ugly; ditto Flying Vees and Explorers and Modernes. And how about the Barney Kessel in cherry sunburst? But they were passing fads. The successful ones were thoroughly engineered to be great guitars in playability and appearance (and sound -- but that's a function, I think, of players learning to exploit the inherent tones of the guitars, regardless of the designers' intentions, viz the contrast between Les Paul's clean, stinging tone vs the crunch of later rockers). Or maybe I'm just getting old and cranky and feeling that fashion has passed me by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well, "old and cranky" I may be, too...But, if this Zoot Suit SG and some of the other offerings are the wave of the future, in Gibson guitars, No Thanks!! I'll stick to the conservative SG, LP, ES models, that Gibson built it's reputation on, decades ago. Good design, and styling, never goes out of fashion! The "lastest Fashion," be it clothing, guitars, or anything else IS, by it's nature, transitory. I'm much too conservative (and "thrifty"/AKA "Broke") to be interested in "whims." But "collectors" will love 'em, years from now, I suppose? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well' date=' I hope you're right, Guitarest...but, only time will tell, I guess? If they do, bring out a new line of more"correct" SG's, I certainly hope it will be at a decent price point, within the regular production line, and Not another ultra-expensive "Collector's" edition. Cheers, CB[/quote'] +1..... A "Standard" should be correct. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbomb76 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I've heard a few LP-extremists say that Henry doesn't care much about anything other than that bottom line. But to me, like with GM, if Gibson doesn't start putting some real GENUINE authenticity in the details on some models, eventually it'll be 1983/1984 all over again and they'll be looking for a new direction/management. See, back in 1999, Customer Relations at Gibson (along with a couple department managers) listened, and VOILA! SG '61 w/tapered horns and the Maestro. Even if they simply went back to that exact spec (aside from adding a new, more "true cherry red" finish), it would be a much more acceptable REISSUE than anything on the shelves right now. Derek Trucks' "customized" one (the one where he mounted his Maestro plate behind a stoptail) is from that era, and if you'll notice he uses that one even more than his old '61/'62 Standard. But I digress. The point is, Gibson DID care then, and we praised them for it. If Gibson wants some ideas on how they can tweak the Historics to be TRULY "historically accurate" (as they've been falsely advertised for nearly a decade now), there are plenty of pictures and resources to help them along the way. Someone who has a passion (or fetish...lol) for the '64/'65-era SG like me could offer them some VERY minor tweaks that would result in such a badass, genuine reissue. Will they listen? If you speak loudly and often (and with your wallets), I'm sure they'll bring it up at the next board meeting. And yes, there's no excuse why we shouldn't be able to get a USA reissue that's close enough to the real-deal. Can the "Historic" series and instead put more pride into the USA stuff, leaving the Custom Shop to really be just that. Fender does this with a certain amount of success, and I think Gibson should follow suit (with the intention of outdoing the competition, of course). Then no one would hassle Gibson too awful much for that godawful Hendrix Strat-type thing or some of those wacky, horrid novelty guitars. H-Bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Well, we'll keep after 'em, huh, H-Bomb?! ;>) CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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