StarBucks - Now I'm a fan!

[Bowdiddley]

Interesting

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587938,00.html

[mcmurray]

It's all fun and games until someone gets their head blown off.

 

You crazy americans and your 2nd ammendment olol. How many concealed carriers do so to protect the constitution anyway? My guess is zero.

[EVOL!]

In California, where it's legal to carry a gun openly without a license in most places as long as it's unloaded,...

 

:) What is the point of carrying a firearm if it's unloaded? Do you keep the clip in another pocket? Are hand guns the new fashion accessory?

[DanvillRob]

In California' date=' where it's legal to carry a gun openly without a license in most places as long as it's unloaded,...[/b']

 

:) What is the point of carrying a firearm if it's unloaded? Do you keep the clip in another pocket? Are hand guns the new fashion accessory?

 

 

It's been proven time and time again.... more guns equals less crime.

 

What do you think the chances are that some yahoo will try to pull an armed robbery in any Starbucks where any/all of the customers might be packing heat? Probably pretty slim.

 

The guns "might" be unloaded...might not be too!

[Bowdiddley]

It's all fun and games until someone gets their head blown off.

 

You crazy americans and your 2nd ammendment olol. How many concealed carriers do so to protect the constitution anyway? My guess is zero.

 

 

Actually it's a proven fact that when you have a armed Law abiding public crime goes way down.

 

As for your question, I do, I've actually held a armed robber, that I happened upon, at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived.

 

Dan you bet me to the punch!:)

[badbluesplayer]

Around here, most everybody has a gun. I do. O.K., great. That doesn't mean that I go around always trying to carry my gun and show it off.

 

I find that, almost without exception, the people who go around talking about guns and about how they need to have their guns around in case there's some imaginary bad guy around the corner - most of those people have some kind of issue that makes them want to show how tough they are.

 

I also find that the people who go around carrying their guns on their hip, like the guy in the picture of the Starbucks protest, are usually pretty harmless "woosie" types who really are not the real troublemaker types. Look at the guy's fat a$$ hanging out of his pants. For every person that says "Ooh, that's a tough guy with his gun, there are ten people laughing at the guy's fat a$$ and knowing what a loser the guy is.

 

Now that, my friends, can only happen in America!!

[Bowdiddley]

Around here' date=' most everybody has a gun. I do. O.K., great. That doesn't mean that I go around always trying to carry my gun and show it off.

 

I find that, almost without exception, the people who go around talking about guns and about how they need to have their guns around in case there's some imaginary bad guy around the corner - most of those people have some kind of issue that makes them want to show how tough they are.

 

I also find that the people who go around carrying their guns on their hip, like the guy in the picture of the Starbucks protest, are usually pretty harmless "woosie" types who really are not the real troublemaker types. Look at the guy's fat a$$ hanging out of his pants. For every person that says "Ooh, that's a tough guy with his gun, there are ten people laughing at the guy's fat a$$ and knowing what a loser the guy is.

 

Now that, my friends, can only happen in America!![/quote']

 

I carry concealed and thats fine, I'd prefer to not let a bad guy know I'm armed. It would only serve to give the criminal an advantage.

 

As for the guy in the pic I wouldn't think he is trying to look tough or bad, but instead he is one of a growing population that is sick and tired of standing by and letting criminals have control over their lives.

 

As to his size, might I suggest trying to look past his weight, could be due to health issues or simply that he likes to eat alot, neither makes him a woosie nor loser..... just saying. You saying that is sort of like someone saying they are amazed that you can type being from TN.:)

[EVOL!]

Around here' date=' most everybody has a gun. I do. O.K., great. That doesn't mean that I go around always trying to carry my gun and show it off.

 

I find that, almost without exception, the people who go around talking about guns and about how they need to have their guns around in case there's some imaginary bad guy around the corner - most of those people have some kind of issue that makes them want to show how tough they are.

 

I also find that the people who go around carrying their guns on their hip, like the guy in the picture of the Starbucks protest, are usually pretty harmless "woosie" types who really are not the real troublemaker types. Look at the guy's fat a$$ hanging out of his pants. For every person that says "Ooh, that's a tough guy with his gun, there are ten people laughing at the guy's fat a$$ and knowing what a loser the guy is.

 

Now that, my friends, can only happen in America!![/quote']

 

Could not have said it better myself.

 

 

As to his size' date=' might I suggest trying to look past his weight, could be due to health issues or simply that he likes to eat alot, neither makes him a woosie nor loser..... just saying. You saying that is sort of like someone saying they are amazed that you can type being from TN.:- [/quote']

 

1. What happened to personal responsibility or is it every man for himself and damn the rest?

 

2. Do not equate choices with something you are born into. I choose to not shovel junk into my pie hole. I did not choose to be born in Michigan (although I wear that badge with honor).

[James Allen]

Statistics showed that when England outlawed guns, the crime rate went up.

[EVOL!]

It's all fun and games until someone gets their head blown off.

 

You crazy americans and your 2nd ammendment olol. How many concealed carriers do so to protect the constitution anyway? My guess is zero.

 

Just want to say that this is an argument that goes round and round with our non US friends on the forum. Here in the States we have an obsession with firearms that the rest of the industrialized world will never understand. It's in our blood. This country was built at the end of gun and we conquered the first nations people with guns.

[FennRx]

It's all fun and games until someone gets their head blown off.

 

You crazy americans and your 2nd ammendment olol. How many concealed carriers do so to protect the constitution anyway? My guess is zero.

 

i carry to protect myself and my wife. courts have repeatedly upheld that the police are not under any obligation to protect the individual citizen; security lies with the individual. i understand why some people are anti-gun and choose not to carry or own one. that is a personal choice. but they need not make the decision for me.

 

in my state, open carry is allowed. i dont do it though; i tried it once and was really uncomfortable. i do however respect those that do open carry. just a few weeks ago, an armed robbery in georgia was prevented because the scouts saw two patrons were open carrying 1911s and they decided the diner wasnt worth the trouble.

[grampa]

To me it seems like some kind of juvenile expression of idiotic machismo. "Look at me, a tough guy with a gun. Don't mess with me!"

Pathetic.

[FennRx]

just to show you how insane some liberals are, here is the Illinois State Police's website...with their suggestions on what to do if you might be raped or sexually assaulted.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm

that's right, try to vomit on your attacker. or USE YOUR IMAGINATION.

[Cruznolfart]

It's all fun and games until someone gets their head blown off.

 

You crazy americans and your 2nd ammendment olol. How many concealed carriers do so to protect the constitution anyway? My guess is zero.

 

Have you studied the cases of legal, concealed carry holders and their involvement in weapons crimes? Or in firearm-related accidents?

 

Our 2d Amendment is VERY important to me. I'm a ccw holder who occasionally carries openly, as is allowed in our State. On those occasions when someone says something to me about my gun, I take the opportunity to encourage them to exercise and support their rights by obtaining their own concealed-carry permit and keeping it current. Your broad-stroke assumption that we Americans are crazy because we demand the right of self-protection is based on the very thing that keeps you under the thumb of the people who stripped you of similar rights. They're working now in our nation to do the very same thing.

 

George Soros is a dangerous man. His organization neutered your countrymen.

[DanvillRob]

Have you studied the cases of legal' date=' concealed carry holders and their involvement in weapons crimes? Or in firearm-related accidents?

 

Our 2d Amendment is VERY important to me. I'm a ccw holder who occasionally carries openly, as is allowed in our State. On those occasions when someone says something to me about my gun, I take the opportunity to encourage them to exercise and support their rights by obtaining their own concealed-carry permit and keeping it current. Your broad-stroke assumption that we Americans are crazy because we demand the right of self-protection is based on the very thing that keeps you under the thumb of the people who stripped you of similar rights. They're working now in our nation to do the very same thing.

 

George Soros is a dangerous man. His organization neutered your countrymen.[/quote']

 

Makes me wanna jump up on a table, point and yell, "I KNOW that man!"

[milod]

First history: American colonists in the early days were eating food gathered with firearms and had already been involved in some rather interesting contretemps with the French and allied tribes. When George III and such sought to remove that and displayed lack of respect for folks in this part of the continent, a "push back" showed up some years later in the U.S. 2nd Amendment, otherwise known as part of the original "bill of rights."

 

Non U.S. friends may see some of the initial feelings along those lines reflected a number of years later in Cooper's "leatherstocking" tales such as Last of the Mohicans. Feelings that "we" were being disrespected, disarmed and left entirely disenfranchised were common after around 1740 or so.

 

Second history: A right to a firearm wasn't even so much a right to defense as a right to eat on the frontier from the 1600s well into the 20th century. That's not so much in urban areas, obviously, but until relatively recently, the North American population was not so urban.

 

I can tell you this, that in the 1930s skill with a shotgun and rifle kept my parents' families eating somewhat better than folks in more urban circumstances.

 

Editorial: As is rather obvious on the discussion here, many Americans can't imagine how a people would allow themselves to become disarmed (the word itself has a number of interesting meanings in the English language), while those in disarmed populations don't understand why those same Americans feel sorry for them.

 

It's interesting.

 

m

[Cruznolfart]

To me it seems like some kind of juvenile expression of idiotic machismo. "Look at me' date=' a tough guy with a gun. Don't mess with me!"

Pathetic.[/quote']

 

I've been a ccw holder for over 40 years, in 3 different states. In that time and that experience I can honestly say I have NEVER encountered the attitude you describe among other holders of concealed weapons permits. And here, in my local area, so many people carry openly that we don't really notice it as anything different. We DO notice nasty attitudes, though.

 

Isn't it interesting that the aggressive attitude you attribute to those who would legally carry is actually more an invention of those who do not? Now THAT'S pathetic. I guess it's needed in order to justify their illogical assumptions of sub-standard character on the part of those who would be responsible for themselves. By the by, more and more women are choosing armed self-defense nowdays. Kinda puts a new wrinkle in the old "tough guy with a gun" attitude BS.

 

As a comparison, I don't stereotype those who choose to not own or carry firearms as anything abnormal. Once you've pigeon-holed an entire group you cease to consider anything they say. And that just seems ignorant to me. No offense intended.

[FennRx]

i have a problem when any government knows whats best for all of us. i mean, look at some of the wonky things that happen in the UK. considering banning glass pints? stabless knives?

[Cruznolfart]

i have a problem when any government knows whats best for all of us. i mean' date=' look at some of the wonky things that happen in the UK. considering banning glass pints? stabless knives? [/quote']

 

An even larger problem is individuals with their own agendas having enough acce$$ to any government as to be able to influence its conduct. $oro$. Bloomberg.

[zigzag]

It's been proven time and time again.... more guns equals less crime.

 

NRA propaganda. There are fewer guns in Britain (and many other countries for that matter) than the US and far less crime and crimes committed with guns. I believe in the right to bear arms, but I also believe that handguns exist only to kill people. The right to bear arms exists so that private citizens can protect themselves from military dictatorship and foreign aggression, and to shoot game for sustenance. It is a complicated society we have evolved into, and this is a complicated issue.

[FennRx]

NRA propaganda. There are fewer guns in Britain (and many other countries for that matter) than the US and far less crime and crimes committed with guns. I believe in the right to bear arms' date=' but I also believe that handguns exist only to kill people. The right to bear arms exists so that private citizens can protect themselves from military dictatorship and to shoot game for sustenance. It is a complicated society we have evolved into, and this is a complicated issue.[/quote']

 

comparing apples and oranges in a way. i dont know about other countries. i would imagine that there are a lot of sociological and historical factors/differences at play. i have read some of the work by guys like John Lott. very interesting.

[Cruznolfart]

NRA propaganda. There are fewer guns in Britain (and many other countries for that matter) than the US and far less crime and crimes committed with guns. I believe in the right to bear arms' date=' but I also believe that handguns exist only to kill people. The right to bear arms exists so that private citizens can protect themselves from military dictatorship and to shoot game for sustenance. It is a complicated society we have evolved into, and this is a complicated issue.[/quote']

 

The studies the NRA uses to promote their position on the right of armed self-protection and the right to carry are frequently generated by law enforcement agencies such as the FBI, word-for-word. I doubt the intention to propagandize these results by merely publishing them.

[Artie Owl]

Ok, it is quite obvious a lot of right wing people need addressing here. FIRST when you outlaw something the crimes involving that something go up yes. That does NOT mean that there is a dramatic increase in actual violent crime, it means that when new laws are passed people either don't agree with them or are unaware, resulting in many more reported incidents/crimes INVOLVING guns (possession, concealment etc). There is no proof that everyone carrying a gun or no one carring a gun is any damn safer or not. Statistics lie because they don't account for variables.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't carry or own a gun if it was legal in Canada, I just think Americans take it that next step that only America is capable of.

 

Hell, it's legal here in Halifax to carry a sword still, as long as it's sheathed, as dueling was taken out of our charter some years ago.

 

But whatever, you want to carry guns, fine, just be prepared for a good ol fashioned GSW for stepping on someone's Nikes or the likes, because you might not be prepared to use that gun you've got as you thought you were, but Jimmy Crazyshots overthere couldn't care less.

 

Good luck.

-Brandon

[Artie Owl]

Besides, hasn't anyone here listened to "Saturday Night Special" by Lynyrd Skynyrd? Van Zant said handguns aren't good for nothing but killing people, and they're about as redneck as you can get.

[milod]

The question was asked:

 

1. What happened to personal responsibility or is it every man for himself and damn the rest?

 

.... Well, the personal responsibility is held by those who maintain their right to keep and bear arms. The "every man for himself and damn the rest" is actually among those who feel citizens have no such rights. English common law for centuries held a right to personal defense and the means to effect it. That's apparently pretty well gone nowadays, retained in dwindling fashion in the U.S.

 

Ever hear of a guy named Clausewitz? Anyone interested in military history should have. Note that one reason he left Prussia to fight against Napoleon in Russia is because of an argument he had with the Prussian king.

 

Clausewitz' letters indicate he wanted to arm the population to continue guerrilla warfare against Napoleon and the king figured it was better to keep the public disarmed so that government of any sort could keep them in a mind-set of control by "government" rather than being able to defend themselves and their country as citizens.

 

That argument has not changed much, in ways. We are hearing it here. It's a cultural difference that is significant.

 

I'd add that for the elderly especially, the right to bear arms means that they do have a defense for themselves and others against strong-arm violent criminals as opposed to being easy targets for such folk.

 

There's no question in my mind also that the U.S. is rather different culturally than most other of the world's nations, in part at least, due to questions and problems of being multi-ethnic and of the frontier that lasted from the 1600s functionally well past 1892 when federal authorities proclaimed the frontier "closed." The need for firearms wasn't so much for defense as for food. It still is in many places on this continent.

 

As for swords... <grin> I've been told my reenactor outfit with a firearm is fine in Deadwood, but there might be folks fearful of my officer's saber. What a world. <chuckle)

 

m