Strongest/weakest necks?

[Jinder]

Here's a thought...following my recent neck-breaking woes with my SJ200, I have been wondering:what are the strongest and weakest necks in the Gibson stable?

 

In my mind, it should (theoretically) be thus:

 

 

Weakest:the single-piece Mahogany necks, as used on the Hummingbird, J45, J185, L00 etc. I surmised this because being a single piece of wood, it would be more susceptible to weakness thanks to possible grain irregularity, internal knotting etc, and without being comprised of different sections of wood with differing grain direction, it would be more susceptible to warping.

 

Strongest:the multi-piece Maple-based necks as seen on the SJ200 (Maple/Rosewood/Maple) and Dove (Maple/Rosewood/Maple/Rosewood/Maple). For a start, IIRC Maple is a harder and more dense wood than Mahogany, and also the contrasting graining angles of the various pieces of wood involved would provide a greater resistance to impact cracking, warping or general failure.

 

 

However, in my experience the opposite is true-I've had two neck breaks on my SJ200, but none on any J45 I've owned, either my current or previous Hummingbird, my former B15 or my former Les Paul Standard. Notably, my Les Paul and current Hummingbird have both had major impacts to the neck (the LP due to a strap button screw failure-yes it does happen!!-and the Hummingbird due to a mistimed onstage scissorkick carried out by both myself and a former bandmate, resulting in the headstock of my Bird and his '74 Guild F212 making, erm, "significant contact"!) and, bar a tiny ding in the back of the headstock of my Hummingbird, both were virtually unmarked.

 

So, what do you think? When I eventually spring for a new main stage guitar to take the place of my SJ200 (the 'Bird alone will do for now, but I hate travelling long distances without a backup, and I like to have two guitars onstage with me for different tunings, tones etc., so a replacement will have to be sought eventually), I will obviously let my ears and fingertips make the decision for me, but if I can factor in a sturdy neck too, all's the better!!

[ryanfender]

I think the weight of the tuners makes a big difference in neck strength. Your neck will be stronger with light weight Waverlys compared to Grover Empirals.

[BigKahune]

Single piece or multipiece neck - IMHO, the only thing that will improve the damage prone Gibson headstock angle is a volute (an additional thickness of wood at the base of the headstock, usually in the form of a ship's prow, which strengthens the thin and vulnerable area just behind the nut).

[ksdaddy]

An angled headstock is inherently weak regardless of the material, assuming it's flatsawn wood. A grafted headstock is ugly but would make it much stronger*. Quartersawn wood would be stronger too, but would drive the cost up. Adding to the problem is Gibson's rout for the truss rod channel. Not exclusive to Gibson of course, and they don't always break right there.

 

I've seen (and repaired) too many broken Gibson headstocks since gigbags have become mainstream. I know they can break inside a hardshell case and from falling over when leaning against the couch but putting an angle-headstocked guitar in a sheath of padded nylon is just begging for it to happen.

 

*Oddly enough, I've repaired more than one guitar with a failed glue joint at the grafted headstock. I would have thought the joint would have been stronger than the surrounding wood.

 

I have a 1940 Kay upright bass. The neck was loose in the pocket when I bought it. I removed the neck, cleaned all the old hide glue out, then reattached it, using (hidden) wood shims for a good fit. I was told by a bass guru that when the old Kays were assembled, they squirted a big glob of hot hide glue into the neck pocket and rammed the neck into place, wiping off the excess after. Hide glue doesn't work well in that scenario; it's not a good gap filler. But I wonder if they did it that way so that if/when it fell over, the built-in weak spot was the neck joint itself. If it hit hard enough, the neck would be more likely to pop out, rather than break wood.

 

I read somewhere that the added Norlin era volute did nothing to strengthen the neck. How in the world could that person make that call? How would anyone know how many broken headstocks were avoided? I know some Norlin era voluted Gibsons broke anyway, but that's hardly enough info to make the claim that they didn't work....

[jgwoods]

Strung up and in tune there is more stress on the long scale necks waiting to shear apart when an accident happens.

Other than that it probably comes down to the strength of the wood species and possible hidden defects.

Watching baseball players shatter maple bats these days makes me thing mahogany might be tougher.

[DanvillRob]

We have to treat them special.

 

Fine guitars are very much like beautiful women. Aside the obvious similarity of shape, they require a lover's touch.

 

When I was young, (in my 20's), I treated my guitar badly, played hard and abused. Didn't have any reverence for her at all. And yes, she finally broke.

 

When I was older, (in my 30's), I still played hard, but didn't abuse her. Now, she's not in the shape I would like, but is still a wonderful guitar.

 

Now, (somewhat older than 30), I treat my newest guitar with reverence. I get more out of her without having to play so hard, and she is worshiped. I take no unnecessary chances with her, as I want her to be around for the long haul.

[Murph]

I've been playing Gibsons for 40 some odd years and have never had one break.

 

(knock on wood)..

 

I guess I've just been blessed, but gigged some mighty crummy clubs from Fla., to Az., to La., to the frozen Illinois tundra, and actually gigged 48 weekends last year.

 

Now that I'm slowing down, I'll probably have one break......

 

:)

[DanvillRob]

The trick is NOT to.....

 

(knock on wood)..

 

[Hall]

Seems ksd and jgwoods, are closest to how & why I have seen it happen with Gibsons. Anything or anybody under severe stress is a good candidate to "snap" when a sudden jolt is received. Cases, cases, cases!

[onewilyfool]

Jinder, I have heard from more than one luthier/guitar repair person, that Gibsons actually have notoriously thin necks and are very prone to cracking, and breaking......I see MANY craigslist Gibson posts, with references to "repaired necks". I am posting an Ed Roman (OK it's a rant about Les Pauls, so take with a grain of salt) article about the problem with Gibson necks from a DESIGN point of view. Take it or leave it. Sorry again about your own neck break...hopefully it can be fixed....

 

http://www.edroman.com/rants/les_paul_necks.htm

[Jinder]

Some interesting thoughts here.

 

Wily, I read that Ed Roman article the other day! He certainly has strong opinions ;-)

 

Is the general concensus long scale=more prone to breakage?

 

It seems like a hot topic amongst Gibson folks.

[fortyearspickn]

OWF, the article appears to be a not so subtle advertiesment for goods & services required due to Gibson's faulty design. Wood that I could engineer a better guitar than Gibson Montana.

[Rambler]

Don't know nothing from a technical angle, but it would seem to me that a stouter neck (v, ballbat) would have the better chance of holding up. Anyway, that's how they were made in the pre-truss rod days. Only neck I ever had to fix as a late 60s j45, one of those thin ones. Strap on the gig bag came off. Argh.

[milod]

I guess I'll take some risk in order to have the thinner neck profile.

 

I've had guitars with the ball bat necks; don't care for the "v" profile necks, either.

 

Classical guitars may have some significantly lesser tension from the strings, but they've been thinner fingerboard to the back of the neck for ages.

 

Which... brings a question in my own mind: Are heavy strings part of a tendency for some pieces of wood to give up the ghost? If there's greater tension on the wood in one direction or another, it seems it might weaken it somewhat regardless of angle??????

 

Also in line with that latter, it may also have something to do then with the angle of the neck itself to the body. I'm no structural engineer, but...

 

m

[zombywoof]

I read somewhere that the added Norlin era volute did nothing to strengthen the neck. How in the world could that person make that call? How would anyone know how many broken headstocks were avoided? I know some Norlin era voluted Gibsons broke anyway' date=' but that's hardly enough info to make the claim that they didn't work....[/quote']

 

 

I have always been told that short grain headstocks which you find on necks made from a single piece of wood are just inherently weak.

 

Gibson started putting volutes on their guitars in 1970. Those humps kept getting bigger and bigger until the early 1980s when they just disappeared. The added wood was supposed to strengthen the headstock neck joint. I gather that Gibson did not place the hump in the right place and that it actually weakened the joint.

 

And I love V necks - my older guitars have them and I find them very comfy.