acoustic vs. electric - generally

[tw2_usa]

Been playing acoustic for two plus years now. Tried on a friend's brand new Les Paul Standard over the weekend... fun.

Question: Is the level of tone-agonizing that I read on this forum and experience personally in my search for the 'perfect' acoustic guitar... is this level comparable when approaching electrics? It seems with the electricity and the (mostly) solid bodies, etc., it would not be as much an issue, I would assume there is less variation of tone.

 

Approaching electric feels like a total Pandora's Box so I'm open to warnings, rules of thumb, anything...

Thanks.

(I don't want to hear it from the electric forums, but am interested in hearing it from the acoutic lovers points of view, hence the post in this forum)

[Buc McMaster]

Gads! Yes, there are electric players that are every bit as fanatical in the pursuit of tone as any acoustic player. They obsess over pickups, pots, capacitors, etc just as acoustic players do over pins, saddles, nuts, etc. AND, beyond the guitar itself, the quest for the holy grail of amplification is perhaps even worse! Tubes, transistors, amp modelers, speakers, cabinets, pedals (alkaline v. carbon batteries!).......even guitar cords! Some are seriously OCD with it all. If you're venturing into electric-guitardom for the first time keep in mind that it's just like acoustic guitar - everyone has their own ideas about good tone and what it takes to achieve it and some will argue their points to the death of us all!

[grOOved]

Pandora's box is a good analogy. It's actually much worse - the tonal variations can be subtle (not as obvious as the raw materials for an acoustic), but the demands over the littlest of things becomes quite an obsession. Add another dimension for the vintage market which is a huge, huge aspect of electrics, often having nothing to do with the "sound" of the guitar.

 

Example, the difference between the LP standard you played and an original 59 Les Paul (considered the holy grail), might be subtle to the ear, but the price gap is about a hundred grand. But those that own them will tell you how different they are!

 

I don't know, it's hard to even begin... Then when you get to amps it gets worse!

[sorad]

Im an electric player mostly playing acoustic lately and all I can say is there is quite a difference in different lps. I played one that had the frets filed too much, one that the body was too light and had imperfections. so you do have to look around with any guitar you buy that your going to drop alot of cash on. on my lp I put in a 59/JB pups and changed the pots had a bone nut put in.

[Dotneck]

Then when you get to amps it gets worse!

 

And then after finding all that good guitar and amp tone you risk risk it all by using the wrong cables...or plugging in a great cable backwards so the electrons flow the wrong way!

[BigKahune]

When you're dealing with an acoustic tone, you can end up chasing wood types, body shapes, as well as strings, nut, saddle and bridge pin material (plastic, tusq, bone etc).

 

With electrics there are similar concerns, wood types, body shapes, chambering and a large number of parts: strings, bridges, saddles, nut, pots, capacitors, switches, pickups, tuning machines, tremolo setups and output options. Then there's the that other device to deal with - amplifier, with too many parts to name. But most players have their favorite manufacturer. After that you've got jack cords, stomp boxes, effects peddles . . . You get the picture. There's a lot more to deal with than playing a straight acoustic (no amplification).

[drathbun]

You should hear some of the arguments over the proper strings to use on Beatle guitars like Rickenbackers, Casinos, Gretsches and Hofners! Flat wound, round wound, hex core, round core, new Pyramids versus Pyramids made in the '60's... it goes on and on. Most people can't hear the difference between a round core string versus a hex core string when played through a Vox AC30 at full.

 

I put flat wound strings on my Ric 4003 bass because they are easy on my fingers.

[tw2_usa]

yeah... that's what I thought...

thanks

[Rambler]

Which goes to show that GAS is a universal syndrome (check gun forums). Since it seems to strike males age 19-49 indiscriminately, so its prob not a virus, but some perversion of the tool-making impulse.

[vincentw]

Great tone = '54 Les Paul Goldtop in a small vintage tube amp.

[drathbun]

Great tone = '54 Les Paul Goldtop in a small vintage tube amp.

 

Yeah but does it have bone bridge pins?

(note for the funny bone challenged... yes I am aware a Les Paul has no bridge pins)

[Murph]

I've been blessed with electrics. My first Gibson was a '61 twin pickup/double cut Melody Maker I still own, although it was in my oldest sons hands for many years.

 

My second was a '72 Les Paul Recording I gigged all over Mesa/Phx, then Lake Charles, La., then Southern Illinois for some 14+ years. Even my '79 Norlin "The SG" , which was a cheap guitar, has a very good feel and tone. My 339 was perfect out of the box (with just a little intonation tweaking) and is an incredible instrument.

 

I guess that's why I don't get all the complaints about Gibson quality sometimes.

 

Best of luck.

[zombywoof]

When I first aw the Beatles on Sullivan with those electric guitars I knew I had to get me one. Other than a brief flirtation with a Gibson Reverse Bird, I strapped Fender geetars on. I spent more decades than I care to remember gigging between Boston and Baltimore first with a '60 Esquire and then with a '58 Tele plugged into a '55 Fender Twin Amp. For slide I favored an el cheapo Dan Electro

 

But Lordy, those electric guys are obsessed with tone - who do ya think coined the phrase "tone monster."

[aceman199]

Tomwood- everyone is right. It is a pandora's box, and in my opinion, it is a million times worse for electric. Keep in mind that playin acoustic, you only have the guitar, strings, pick, etc. For electric, to get a sound you want, you not only have to find a guitar in the same manner as acoustics, but you have so many other factors like amps and effects, which have a bigger influence on your sound that anything. The amp is the most important part in getting a good electric sound, so don't you can go out and buy a $3000 les paul and get a $100-$200 solid state amp and expect a good sound. You can however, get a $100 used squire or epiphone with $1000 amp and fool tons of people (including pros).

[milod]

jkinnama

 

The guy I've known with about the worst GAS was over 70. So... I'd say it goes well beyond the 40s. It's just that somewhere after the 40s other bills having to do with age start to arise.

 

Thing is, as far as I'm concerned there's no perfect tone for any guitar. You could have a dozen top-end Gibsons, each one of which you're in love with, and you could have a dozen of each style Gibson with different strings, and you'd still find times when you wanted something different.

 

The problem is, as I see it, that even in different venues you'll hear things differently. Given your guitar to your buddy to play on the other side of the living room and when HE plays it and you're 15 feet away, you'll hear a different sound than when YOU play the darned thing.

 

I figured at one point in my life that if you spent $50,000 on a full custom acoustic guitar it'd be what you wanted. Nope. There's always a nagging little voice that sez, "Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have a little more sustain on the bottom end?" Or "a bit more mids" or "Gee, this just doesn't quite sound like Doc Watson..."

 

Yeah, it's worse with electrics because you add the amp to the above. So instead of a $50,000 custom guitar you've gotta have a $10,000 custom amp or whatever - with the same result.

 

Bottom line is that I'm reminded how Joe Pass used a Jazzmaster "board" guitar for some gorgeous jazz. I've heard classical guitar played in a "hard" environment that I thought sounded "tinny" with reflection from marble walls. Does your Hummingbird sound the same from Joe Schmoe's saloon PA as it does from the mikes in the local radio station?

 

.... So... I guess I've gone the other way. If a guitar sounds darned good and plays nicely in my hands, and if an amp does what I want it to more or less do, I'll let my technique do as much as I can with a relaxed smoothness and worry about GAS when I take time to look through on-line catalogs...

 

m

[Andre S]

Yeah but does it have bone bridge pins? :-

(note for the funny bone challenged... yes I am aware a Les Paul has no bridge pins)

 

 

 

Actually the Les Paul acoustic model does have bridge pins...

 

 

[sorad]

thats hillarious

[meanstreak]

I've always wanted to hear/play one of those Les Paul acoustics. Is it similar to the Epiphone Chet Atkins SST or is it something altogether different?

 

[Andre S]

I've always wanted to hear/play one of those Les Paul acoustics. Is it similar to the Epiphone Chet Atkins SST or is it something altogether different?

 

:-

 

Sorry, I don't know anything about them except they aren't in production again.

 

From the pictures I'd imagine it has an acoustic pickup somewhere, because it obviously is not a true acoustic, (soundhole/board etc)

[J185-4Me]

And then after finding all that good guitar and amp tone you risk risk it all by using the wrong cables...or plugging in a great cable backwards so the electrons flow the wrong way!

 

Yeah, I just HATE when THAT happens...! (I think that's how "feedback" was discovered.)

[Franzi]

jkinnama

 

Thing is' date=' as far as I'm concerned there's no perfect tone for any guitar. You could have a dozen top-end Gibsons, each one of which you're in love with, and you could have a dozen of each style Gibson with different strings, and you'd still find times when you wanted something different.

 

end quote Milod

 

I agree, Milod. For me there is such a thing as a "click" or connection with an instrument. You choose it or it chooses you and you play it for years, getting deeper and deeper into the tonal possibilities with your playing technique. Make it sing more every year! Of course you try different gear along the way and you see what sticks. It's a marriage.

[jefleppard]

though i have lost sleep and grinded teeth down obsessing about amps, i've found my electric life slightly less torturous. my acoustic life has been murder. i've had most brands, all body sizes in most price ranges but i am still confounded and driven to tears by this little enigma. too many tone questions, values, factors - scale size, body depth, string gauges, bone, tusq, ivoroid, tonerite, hide glue, 12 fret, 14 fret, rosewood, mahogany, maple, walnut, koa, ebony, sitka, adirondack, ply, balsa, v-shape, c--shape, nut width, baseball bat, waverly, gotoh, baggs, k&k, fishman, humidity, neck set, bridge-bend angle, satin, laquer, ladder, x, bob colosi, planet waves, dunlop, schub - AAARRRGGGHH!!! someone needs to open me up a can of "shut up and play yer guitar" in this regard.

that said, i think i want a blues king.