This is what I mean about Martin guys on Craigslist....lol....

[onewilyfool]

The 70's for Martin, were like the Norlin years for Gibson. Quality was waaaaay down. This guitar will not sell for more than $1500. Maybe even $1200, unless some rube tries to buy it. It just makes me laugh sometimes....by the way, NOT Brazillian. "collector's item"......lol

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/msg/1870845075.html

[zombywoof]

Interesting that the "dark days" for both Gibson and Martin are associated with the passing of control of the company on to an heir apparent. For Gibson it was 1965 when Arnie Berlin took over CMI and for Martin it was 1971 when F.H. Martin took control of the company. Same thing happened with Epiphone after Epi died.

[fp]

You can't even compare 70's Martins to 70's Gibsons. Yes Martins from the 70's went down hill a bit but Gibsons went over the cliff !

[dem00n]

There was some awesome norlins...les paul wise.

I hear the acoustic norlins were horrible.

Never played a 70's martain.

[Gilliangirl]

There was some awesome norlins...les paul wise.

I hear the acoustic norlins were horrible.

Never played a 70's martain.

Dem00n what is that weird scripture in your signature? Is that some kind of devil-worshipping language? I'll bet it's from listening to that heavy metal music you've been listening to. We're going to have to do an exorcism of some sort.

[dem00n]

Dem00n what is that weird scripture in your signature? Is that some kind of devil-worshipping language? I'll bet it's from listening to that heavy metal music you've been listening to. We're going to have to do an exorcism of some sort.

Its greek.

[zombywoof]

You can't even compare 70's Martins to 70's Gibsons. Yes Martins from the 70's went down hill a bit but Gibsons went over the cliff !

 

 

Martins made starting around 1973 had intonation problems out the wazoo. It got so bad that at one point Martin even suspended their lifetime warranty. But the problem could be corrected.

 

Gibsons just took a nose dive in 1971. There was not much you could do to undo what Gibson had done.

 

Funny that neither Gibson nor Martin ever had serious labor problems or a strike until Arnie took over CMI and Frankie over Martin.

[onewilyfool]

Its greek.

 

Well it's Greek to me....

[jgwoods]

The 70s were also the later part of the Folk Scare/Folk Boom and a time of high volume sales. That may have had more to do with the quality problems than ownership issues, or it was a combination of the two- new owners not wanting to deal with lifetime warranty returns and neck resets decided to build heavier to keep the guitars reliable and sacrificed tone along the way. I had a '58 martin D18 that was stellar, but needed a neck reset, and I had a '70 D28 that wasn't stellar at all but never needed any work done on it.

[LeGreatOne]

I have to disagree, to some extent, with the original poster.

Whether the '70's was a bad period for any guitar maker would depend on the model of a maker's guitar!

 

I have a 1974 Martin D35 that I bought new, and it has such an open, airy tone... it has held up very well, although it did suffer the typical Martin shrinking pickguard (Martin foolishly applied the pickguard and THEN sprayed the final finish, unlike what they do today, but Martin did that for a longgggggg time. Perhaps they never expected their guitars to last so long).

I removed the pickguard, filled the depression with shellac (or lacquer - don't remember now) according to the Stew-Mac/Dan Erlewine written repair instructions, and replaced the pickguard myself. I also replaced a cracking ebony bridge, and those have been the ONLY repairs ever needed. I have the action low, the neck is straight, and there's not a single crack or loose brace anywhere.

Oh! I did replace the tuners last year; the old Grovers were still working, but I thought it would be nice to give it a set of Waverly's, in honor of its 36th Birthday, so I did that.

 

My mid '60's Gretsch 6120 Nashville was used so much that I wore the frets down to near nothing, the old cellulose binding began cracking, and the gold plate had disappeared long ago, so a couple of years ago I sent the guitar to Gibson's Repair and Restoration facility in Nashville, along with some new and replated parts. It took a FULL YEAR - no joke - one year to the date Gibson received it, to complete the restoration and get the guitar back.

However, the guys in Nashville did a beautiful job, and now instead of a faded and scratched orange finish, the Gretsch sports a wonderful L5-like Tobacco Sunburst done as only Gibson can do... Everything was restored - new frets, new binding... I gave the Gretsch a set of Gold Waverly's, and upgraded the aluminum Bigsby to a Gold one. I recently added a brass (looks like gold) Compton Bridge in the correct radius and I bought a new plush case for this fine old friend. Hey, we've been through a lot together in the 45 years it has been with me...

 

I've read that the adjustable bridge models of J-45s suffered from increases in bracing during the Norlin period, probably to "increase durability", and of course that would have hurt the tone and reduced volume. However, my '76 Les Paul Custom Deluxe (beeee-u-tiful Cherry Sunburst) solid body had great sound and great sustain, although it seemed to weigh a ton... Still, I wish I had never had to sell it, because it was a very high quality guitar.

 

So, there may have been some models that did not fare well during the'60's, '70's, and early '80s, but surely there were also some models that were very good buys at that time. I would like to point out that the mid '60's to late '70's was a period when low priced, low quality Japanese guitars seemed to show up in stores everywhere; they were just horrible... but many of them looked radically different from Big-Name American guitars, so they caught on, and that probably hurt American guitar manufacturers a good deal. Oddly enough, those old imported uglies are in relatively high demand as collectibles. I'd rather have a big-name American guitar from the period, even if it required a little "modification".

[zombywoof]

I've read that the adjustable bridge models of J-45s suffered from increases in bracing during the Norlin period' date=' probably to "increase durability", and of course that would have hurt the tone and reduced volume. However, my '76 Les Paul Custom Deluxe (beeee-u-tiful Cherry Sunburst) solid body had great sound and great sustain, although it seemed to weigh a ton... Still, I wish I had never had to sell it, because it was a very high quality guitar. [/quote']

 

A solid body Les Paul is a pretty different beast than an acosutic. The 1970s, however, were the also the years of the dreaded pancake body Lesters.

[The G]

I had a 1974 D-35 that was very nice .So, some were ok.

But $ 4000 is way overpriced IMO.

[rar]

Dem00n what is that weird scripture in your signature? Is that some kind of devil-worshipping language? I'll bet it's from listening to that heavy metal music you've been listening to. We're going to have to do an exorcism of some sort.

 

You're right! I don't know any Greek, but I do know the Greek alphabet. So I transliterated it and got

 

Longk live metal!

As longk as i live it vill never die!!

 

which I'm pretty sure I understand.

 

-- Bob R

[ksdaddy]

"Long live metal"......

 

I wish they had stenciled that on our Ford Explorer back in '94.....

[LeGreatOne]

I just went to that Craigslist link, and THAT Martin has seem some heavy wear... Very worn finish, the shrinking pickguard is still on there and will have to be replaced (requiring filling of the surface gap beneath the pickguard, and then replacement with a new stick-on pickguard).

It may SOUND wonderful, but $4K is a very high price for a guitar that was not a limited edition or special signature edition. Does it have Brazilian Rosewood on the back and sides? That would increase the intrinsic value.

 

I can understand the price, if the seller is the original owner; he/she has probably included "Sentimental Value".

 

As I stated in my prior post, Martin's tend to last; there are a lot of those still around. To get that kind of money though, the buyer would have to WANT a vintage Dreadnaught. I think most guitar buyers look to Ebay and Craigslist to get a bargain, to save money, not to find a "Hidden Special Vintage Instrument", but some may; special editions and signature editions do show up on Ebay from time to time.

 

For $4K, the typical bargain hunter could find a more recent D28 or 35 AND a J-45, both in better condition.

....but they wouldn't get that "Vintage Feeling".

 

Now and then on Ebay, I check out the old Gibson L5 and L7 archtops, and a few weeks ago I found an old L7 at a Guitar Center when I was looking for a J-45. If it hadn't already been sold, I'd have bought it, not because it would have been a great player, but because of the "Nostaglic Feeling" and connection to the past I'd have felt every time I saw it. That feeling can be worth a lot to some folks...

[onewilyfool]

In the 70's Martin tended to "over build" their guitars as a way to insure no warranty work, just like Gibson. They had beefier non scalloped braces tended to kill the tone of them. I have played several 70's Dreadnaughts (and owned one) that had "wolf tones" because of the over build. Especially on "G" chords, the wolf tones just made the volume dissappear. 70's Martins are notorious for intonation problems, tops cracking, pickguards lifting (and cracking under the pickguards) loose braces and braces coming unglued, and needing early neck resets. This is from my experience and friends AND one of the top repair persons on the planet who shall go nameless here, but this came from a long discussion I had with him about my guitar, which needed MOST of the repairs listed above. NO WAY, sentimental value added, is this guitar worth the asking price. It is beat and not a Brazillian and a very common guitar, not at all collectable and will probably sell for around $1200 unless it needs any of the repairs noted above. In earlier posts I was ranting about Martin sellers on craigslist as being just totally unreasonable about pricing, just because it is a "martin"......ooooooh. Just recently one guy was advertising a three year old D-28 for $2500. ?????? No electronics, nothing special.....just unbelievable. It is still on. You can get these on line NEW with Warranty for $1700. Why would anyone pay $800 over for a non-warrantied Martin? You see it every day. It is just too funny. Yes Martins tend to last, but unfortunately if a guitar has bad intonation, neck problems, wolf tones, bracing problems etc etc.....and is beat, scratched, dinged, and abused, lasting a long time is NOT a plus. If build quality is bad from the get go, it WON'T get better over time. Quality was so bad for a time in the 70's Martin revoked their lifetime warranty, which is kind of their claim to fame.

[zombywoof]

And ya'll thought Disco was the worst thing to come out of the 1970s.

[TommyK]

Harmony was the world's largest manufacturer of guitars at the time. They made fully HALF of the guitars in the world! "The best guitar you can buy for the money you'll spend," was their slogan. Harmony historians cite the folk music craze of the 60's and accompanying guitar boom as the most causative factor. Due to this guitar market boom, the Harmony company was faced with a totally maxed out production line. Should they expand? by building more factories to cover the demand? What happens when this boom eventually busts? They and, I suspect, other US manufacturers built them as fast as they could and turned away orders. This allowed off shore sources a foot on our shore, and they've never retreated. When the bust came, the US labor force was overpriced, as compared to the off shore manufacturers and lost considerable market share.

[onewilyfool]

Here's another one......Eric Clapton Martin......on line, you can get these for around $2400, new, warranty, free shipping...etc. This one is $2800

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/msg/1875542703.html

 

I've seen these sell used for $1800, and in this market who knows.......

[davenumber2]

Everybody always references the MAP when selling a used guitar. Only problem is that nobody really pays MAP. Usually just looking for a sucker or someone not familiar with buying guitars and doesn't know you usually pay about 60-70% of that price.

[emmonsh]

martin would fix the bridge on 70 martins. wrong location was what was causing some of the intonation problems. but there are a lot of really nice 70,s martins out there. a ton of them. gibson has always been know as hit and miss from the year they started to 2011.

[jannusguy2]

 

That's why I love them! I have 7 Gibsons. I have 0 Martins. There are a couple of Martins I've enjoyed but, now? 7 Gibsons. 0 Martins.

 

xoxoxox

[onewilyfool]

 

That's why I love them! I have 7 Gibsons. I have 0 Martins. There are a couple of Martins I've enjoyed but' date=' now? 7 Gibsons. 0 Martins.

 

xoxoxox

[/quote']

 

I actually have two Martins, and love them both. Love the Gibson's too.......All with different sounds. WAAAAY different.....that's what I really love....lol

[Taylor Player]

Martin vs Gibson..... the great debate will go on forever... (I would tend to fall on the Gibson side of that battle.)

 

 

I am just glad that Taylor stays out of the frey.... they have been consistantly good since the first one in the 1970's and continue to offer excellent customer service, product and consistency.

 

That said, I have one Taylor and 3 Gibson's..... I must love the inconsistency and pure joy I feel each time I pick one of them up.....

 

[onewilyfool]

Here's the Martin Fleece of the day.....Vintage guitar price guide has this at about $3200-$3500 for good to excellent. No pics on this guitar, but like most craigslist sellers has it in "Supreme" condition so, I'm assuming "excellent" This guitar is only listed at 3 times the blue book....lol....

 

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/1877772362.html