How to really spot a counterfeit Epiphone

[sixstring19682]

Hi everyone.

First I'd like to thank you guys,and gals out there who have shared some useful information thought I'd put my two cents in as I've noticed that a lot of people seem to be posting on the subject of counterfeit guitars and plenty of those questions seem to be coming from people looking to buy from an auction on Ebay.

I too have had run ins with these counterfeit guitars and decided the best thing to do is to look into this situation a bit further which led me to the web site of what I figure is one of that largest sellers of these counterfeit guitars in fact I suspect this web site to actually be run right out of the factory in which produces not only Epiphones but Gibson and just about any brand of guitar you would like to have.

I confronted this seller and told him I knew the pictures he had in his site were not legitimate ,and he gladly supplied me with the photos of the real guitar I wanted to buy since investigating this situation I have fount there are plenty of actual photos to be seen that are of what you would get if you ordered from this fellow located in China,my best advice is this go to Bizaar of China and become acquainted with their offerings look into the acoustic versions of the Epiphones that there pawning off as the real thing and notice how Epiphone is spelled and placed on the head stock.

And go to youtube there are plenty of people from the UK who own knock offs of Gibson and Epiphone guitars,I'm not sure how many make it into the US but I'm sure there's been more than a few I've gotten mixed information on them but for the most part I think the only thing that I've read is their lacking in the pickup department,I'm not promoting these peole I'm saying that first of all right down to the protective plastic covering over the pickups on these guitars screams counterfeit.

These people have done their homework but one thing that I've noticed about them in general is they will do mixed variations of their guitars like putting trapazoid inlays on the neck of a counterfeit copy of a EJ-200 and subtle differences in the bridge inlays to the same make,they go as far as to print the name Epiphone on the shipping box spelled(Epiphune)if you look close enough.

And even though there are a lot of different variations of different models of Epiphone guitars there is one thing that seems a safe bet if in doubt call Gibson they can get to the bottom of the question if the seller will provide serial numbers call and find out if its real or not,as for counterfeit guitars and the problem with them in my own opinion don't believe this is ever going to be stopped now Bizaar of China does on the other hand seem to be one of the last places that you can actually buy a $3000.00,or $4000.00 guitar from for only $400.00+ minus the case which cost extra.

And one last point to be made is this wouldn't be more of a sure thing if you went and played an instrument in person before purchasing how do you even know its fits,and feels right?

But I do suggest stopping by Bizaar of China to look and their pretty electricity guitars they guarantee each one of their bags are of the highest quality=d>

[RotcanX]

there is one thing that seems a safe bet if in doubt call Gibson they can get to the bottom of the question if the seller will provide serial numbers call and find out if its real or not

Unfortunately that won't help at all. It's far too easy to generate a legitimate serial number for an Epiphone and I don't believe Epiphone keeps detailed records as to which models have which serials... all they can tell you is that the number is legit even though the guitar might not be. No, it's a little more difficult than that.

[MelodyMaker1]

Hey Sixstring, I couldn't get Bazaarofchina to come up. But I found a site called GuitarofChina that had everything from a es335 type of Slash guitar, to a Gibson Melody maker. I don't know if the pictures are of the exact guitars they are selling, but the Melody Maker I think could fool a lot of people. They've got so-called Gibsons with the two screw truss rod covers, and real serial numbers. But, they say they are new 2008 guitars, but the serial numbers say they were made in 2003, or some year other than 2008. I must admit some of them look pretty good. I can see how they would fool the novice or beginning player. Hell, if I hadn't read so much on this and other forums, I would be hard pressed to tell real from fake. Unless you look at the SG with a Les Paul Custom TRC. Somebody check it out and post what you think about it.

S504

[sixstring19682]

Poit well taken RotcanX,ergo the reason Gibson quit verifying there serial numbers on there web site my experience got me details and the guitars I've contacted them about have turned up enough to let me know they were sold to retailers from the area that I bought them in,only after I went around the ring with them on why I was calling them about the guitars.

And there are other slight variations as I mentioned that a novice would not always notice and other variations that are so bogus that you can't help but to chuckle over,but the point that I forgot to mention is no laughing matter and thats the fact that once you have bought one of these guitar its yours,with no warranty nothing if its junk you have just been taken to the cleaners with no recourse,you might have a chance through paypal but the fact is if you buy one on your own through a web site your pretty much done for.

I read in one forum where these guys were so brazen that they even showed up at a NAMM show and were approaching music store owners with their instruments,this actually was the cause for one music store owner here in the states who ended up going to prison over selling them in his store front.

As far as not being able to get in the web page I noticed last night that it timed out on me but I was there not more than an hour ago I'll grab pics but will have to get help posting them.

[dubstar]

"I can see how they would fool the novice or beginning player. Hell, if I hadn't read so much on this and other forums, I would be hard pressed to tell real from fake. Unless you look at the SG with a Les Paul Custom TRC."

 

do you mean this:

 

http://www.guitarofchina.com/product_info.php?cPath=150&products_id=5711

 

because if so, gibson SG customs DO come with a Les Paul TRC...and 99% of the photos on that site are actual

gibsons from the MF site...

[JefferySmith]

"I can see how they would fool the novice or beginning player. Hell' date=' if I hadn't read so much on this and other forums, I would be hard pressed to tell real from fake. Unless you look at the SG with a Les Paul Custom TRC."

 

do you mean this:

 

http://www.guitarofchina.com/product_info.php?cPath=150&products_id=5711

 

because if so, gibson SG customs DO come with a Les Paul TRC...and 99% of the photos on that site are actual

gibsons from the MF site...[/quote']

Isn't that special. They not only copy the guitars, the hijack the pictures of the actual guitars they are copying and place them on their website.

[Revolver]

dubstar try and use the quote button, so we can see who and what you are quoting. It just makes it easier once a thread starts to get bigger. Thanks!

[Ron G]

Looking around the guitarofchina site, I see that there is no relationship

whatsoever between their price and the price of the genuine article. A

$300 Squier Strat????!!!!

[JefferySmith]

Looking around the guitarofchina site' date=' I see that there is no relationship

whatsoever between their price and the price of the genuine article. A

$300 Squier Strat????!!!![/quote']

And a Gibson double cut that lists for $529, discounted by another $200? Maybe these are Chinese counterfeits of Chinese counterfits. I'll wait for the 4th generation of counterfeits. They ought to come in at less than $100.

 

Peter Townshend would have saved a bundle if he had waited and used one of those guitars for his closing number at each concert.

[rlajack1217]

So all these guitars on GuitarofChina are copies? Just checking I know the prices seem really screwy.

[MelodyMaker1]

This is the one I saw on that site: http://www.guitarofchina.com/product_info.php?cPath=186&products_id=9195.

This site can't be legal, can it? Why can't legimate companies like Epiphone do something about it?

[Suicidehummer]

God, look at this abomination:

 

http://www.guitarofchina.com/popup_image.php?pID=9195&image=0

 

Although I would like to buy a LP and see how bad it is...

[Biff]

I was trawling the 'bay the other day, found a seller in UK with images of '08 Epiphones.

The price was about right, but after seeing the serial numbers on the back of the headstocks, I reported the seller.

The scam artists had missed the fact that the '08 EE serials have one digit more than what they used to have a couple of years ago.

 

A quick visit to Sweetwater's guitar gallery soon verified that the font and placing of the serials were both totally wrong...

 

So be careful out there, buy from authorized dealers.

[JefferySmith]

God' date=' look at this abomination:

 

http://www.guitarofchina.com/popup_image.php?pID=9195&image=0

 

Although I would like to buy a LP and see how bad it is...

If they had a Rickenbacker 325, I'd buy it.

[Biff]

Although I would like to buy a LP and see how bad it is...

 

Buy a new Gibson Baldwin LP for what they sell, $99 ?

That's probably the level of workmanship and materials you're looking at on these fakes.

Although the Gibson Baldwin might even be solid wood or veneer, instead of particleboard like some of the fakes.

[iansmitchell]

 

Buy a new Gibson Baldwin LP for what they sell' date=' $99 ?

That's probably the level of workmanship and materials you're looking at on these fakes.

Although the Gibson Baldwin might even be solid wood or veneer, instead of particleboard like some of the fakes.

[/quote']

Or MDF

[ef_in_fla]

This is an interesting part of their FAQ:

 

Are the photos real on your web site?

 

Most of the Items we took from in our store, but as we are not professional photographers so our picture looks not that nice.

 

we also use some photos from internet, it means we can make that product as the same as the photo. we can make all kind of imaginable instrument

 

Poor English always makes me want to get out my credit card....for to buy happy lucky guitar!

[ricach]

How about a show of hands - who is actually thinking of buying something from that site? Most won't admit it, but I know I am. The only thing stopping me is the fact I'd be supporting/condoning that kind of business. But damn - I am curious. Got a guitarsnob friend who I'd love to silence by placing a precious gibson or fender in his hands - let him, once again, tell me how 'this' is a real guitar, not a toy like epiphones and squiers are. Then spill the beans. 8-[/

[antwhi2001]

The guitar in my avatar is a Chinese Epi faked into a Gibby LP complete with mop logo inlay, embossed Gibson serial number etc. I bought it privately from a UK seller at a good price. So far I've handed it to 3 long-time Gibson Les Paul owners to try, all of them drooled over it and none of them spotted it was fake until I told them. I also used to gig with another Epi LP with a Gibson logo on it, and people used to compliment me on that great Gibson sound. With both guitars I enjoyed telling people they were actually Epis, and pointing out that you don't have to spend $2000 to get a good sound.

 

I wouldn't buy from bazaar because their quality may be a complete lottery and disputes are hard to settle when the parties are on different continents. With an Epi you pretty much know what you're getting, and there's a warranty. I think the worst thing about those fake Gibsons is that in a few years' time there'll will be lots of second-hand ones in circulation, and people may be conned in private sales. Anyone seeing Gibson LPs being sold new from China at $300 ought to know they are fake. The same guitars may find there way onto the second-hand market in a few years in UK or USA with an asking price of $1500, and some people will be fooled.

[Biff]

How about a show of hands - who is actually thinking of buying something from that site? Most won't admit it' date=' but I know I am. The only thing stopping me is the fact I'd be supporting/condoning that kind of business. But damn - I [b']am[/b] curious. Got a guitarsnob friend who I'd love to silence by placing a precious gibson or fender in his hands - let him, once again, tell me how 'this' is a real guitar, not a toy like epiphones and squiers are. Then spill the beans. ](*,)/

 

Nope, not me. I fail to see the point in wasting the money on something completely useless. Besides, it's illegal to import any counterfeit goods into EU these days, even for your personal use...

 

The probability of fooling a guitarsnob friend with one of those is pretty slim, as is the chance of you ever getting your money back. If it was simple to sort out the disputes, the shops like that would be out of business pretty soon.

If you spend a little time looking, you can find decent MIC instruments (like Epiphones) that are superior to any of the fakes (now that's not hard), that will have a warranty and don't finance international organized crime.

 

I wonder what makes people (in general) think that fake guitars that look like the expensive ones will play as good as the originals? You're lucky if they even have a truss rod in that shitty neck, and getting an Epiphone modified to look like a Gibson is like hitting the jackpot.. regular Epiphones are still top of the line compared to those sorry "guitars".

[Dave]

The last thing I need is a guitar ordered from a chinese counterfeiter and no recourse if it is a particle board fake. I'm always leery about ordering any guitar mail order. I like to play it and inspect first and then decide. I'd rather deal with someone who is an authorized Epi or Gibson dealer and not have to worry about it. After all, an authorized dealer isn't likely to jeopardize their relationship with the manufacturer over a cheap, high profit knockoff guitar.

[MrBlimp]

So I am late to this post by almost a year, but I wanted to answer the question someone posted about a future where the China fakes started showing up stateside. So here's my tale.

 

During the past year I purchased a Epiphone LP Standard off Craig's List from someone here on Long Island (originally listed at either $300.00 or $350.00 - I can't remember any more - the seller dropped it to $275.00 when I offered $250.00 over the phone). So I drove over and checked it out. The guitar still had the plastic protective skin on the pickguard and lots of inspection stickers on the back of the headstock, like: Setup in the US, hand-crafted in china, etc. It took a tune and played nicely. I had forgotten my tuner at home so, on the way over, I stopped and bought a cheap one. Having made this extra investment I offered the seller what I had left in cash. For only $243.00 I walked out with the guitar and hardshell Epiphone logo case.

 

Honestly, when I bought it I had no idea that there were China fakes of these instruments, but I did have some reservations. Specifically since, though the house was sorta full of instruments (all child sized guitars and some keyboards) the seller said he bought the guitar figuring he could learn how to play and just couldn't, so he decided to sell it. As the other guitars were child sized it sounded reasonable, especially when he seemed impressed by my playing a few lame licks. I figured if he was that impressed he really couldn't play.

 

A day or so after buying it I happened to be in Sam Ash and looked at the Epiphone there to see if my reservations were real or just buyer's remorse. They looked, and felt identical. I sort of thought they sounded the same as well - though I didn't have mine with me so I obviously couldn't do a side-by-side comparison.

 

Then, after, just today, seeing this thread, I took a much more critical look at the instrument. The guitar looks as real as can be down to every detail.

 

So then I went to the Sweetwater's guitar gallery and looked up the Epiphone Standard to check the serial number where I found that the serial number on the site showed the following format: 0906230698 (with tight justification) and my guitar looks like this: E E 0 5 1 0 6 3 1 7 (with wide justification). [For those not in the know: justification = space between characters]

 

OK, so that leds me to believe mine is a fake - the seller must have gotten taken by one of the China web sites or ebay - and it seems pretty obvious that he had to know he was selling his fake to me.

 

Now, many years ago (way pre-global garment manufacturing) I purchased a Tux at the "Tux Factory", a local factory that claimed they manufactured all of the top name brand Tuxedos. They even had the real deal style books to select from and all of the labels (large extra cost if the label was sewn in the garment).

 

So that makes me think, how much of a difference is my guitar from the one in Sam Ash - if they are made in the same factory, then not much. Maybe mine would have rated "second" off the Epiphone line. Maybe it would have been "first" quality and the manufacturer is just making extras and selling them for profit outside of his contract with Epiphone. Hey, the reality is now that these things are made in China they are probably all made in the same factory, just like that Tux I bought. And they are probably all pretty much the same quality. I have been reading a lot of Lutherier posts lately that the name brand instruments they are seeing lately from their customers looking to make the instrument more playable with a setup are all, pretty much crap.

 

Shortly after buying it, having some doubts, I took a Rub-a-dub marker to my case blackening out some of the letters so it now reads: E Phonie

 

So where does that leave me - well, the original reason I went for an Epiphone, and a used one at that, was because the way I play I just couldn't justify the purchase price of either a new (Epiphone) guitar or a Gibson.

[Vic Flick]

So then I went to the Sweetwater's guitar gallery and looked up the Epiphone Standard to check the serial number where I found that the serial number on the site showed the following format: 0906230698 (with tight justification) and my guitar looks like this: E E 0 5 1 0 6 3 1 7 (with wide justification). [For those not in the know: justification = space between characters]

 

OK' date=' so that leds me to believe mine is a fake...[/quote']

 

Epiphone changed their serial # pattern in 2008. Yours is just the older format, EE indicates the Epiphone factory in QingDao (China). It was made in October 2005 (05 is the year, 10 is the month, 6317 the production #). You can remove the Rub-a-dub marker and proudly display the Epiphone logo on your case.

[rockstar232007]

Epiphone changed their serial # pattern in 2008. Yours is just the older format' date=' EE indicates the Epiphone factory in QingDao (China). It was made in October 2005 (05 is the year, 10 is the month, 6317 the production #). You can remove the Rub-a-dub marker and proudly display the Epiphone logo on your case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote']+1.

[MrBlimp]

What does this

 

+1.

 

mean?

 

 

Oh' date=' I just saw it in another post - it appears that it means: another thumbs up. Sorry, I'm Newbie to this forum.[/b']