Steven Lister Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Recently I upgraded my EPI ELITE LP with a locking bridge/tailpiece. I thought I had sustain before. Now, HOLY COW! I can hold a note longer than that ol' gal at the end of the bar can hold ashes on her burning cigarette. Tone is better defined, fuller. Another amusing difference is in how my EPI "vibrates" now. Locking the bridge/tailpiece transfers so much more string vibration through the body of the instrument. I am not only hearing the music, I am feeling it too. This all started me wondering how many of you are LOCKED IN and LOVIN' IT? Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to sustain on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Give me a break. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ef_in_fla Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 What? The guy's excited about his sustain. It's all good. Nigel Tufnel: The sustain, listen to it. Marty DiBergi: I don't hear anything. Nigel Tufnel: Well you would though, if it were playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 http://acapella.harmony-central.com/archive/index.php/t-1055038.html these guys seem unconvinced... what is the arguement for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Tried every bridge out there, and the stock bridges on my Elitist LP's are staying right where they are. I changed the tuners to green keystones (real ones) because that what I think Les Pauls should have. The stock ones went on other guitars to replace the Korean crap (yes, they are crap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 My G400 Flametop has standard tune-o, & stop bar........ My Sheraton II has the locking tune-o, & stopbar...... While its nice to have everything stay on the Sheraton during string changes, I can't honestly say that i've noticed that big a difference in the sustain..... I very seldom if ever hold a note or chord long enough to need much sustain. But I voted "yes" due to the Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlagJones Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Is this the hardware you are talking about? http://www.epiphone.com/Doctor/locktone.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Is this the hardware you are talking about? http://www.epiphone.com/Doctor/locktone.html Thats whats on my Sheraton II........little pieces of spring steel protrude, and "lock" around the posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjones200x Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Hoe can you tell if you have locking stopbar bridge? Mine is std on my epi lp std. When i changed the strings i removed it and it slides of backwards and there are these sort of peices of spring steel in it to hold it securley against the posts. (This is normal i take it) Mine is a 2007 model. Cant remember what the inotation part was like when i took it off. Any pics of the difference between the two?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Recently I upgraded my EPI ELITE LP with a locking bridge/tailpiece. What locking bridge did you install Steven? Epiphone Locktones or Tonepros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 Is this the hardware you are talking about? http://www.epiphone.com/Doctor/locktone.html Well not really -- but I intended all types to be included when answering "yes" to the poll. However' date=' that link is to Epiphone's newest offering to match the aftermarket ones that are popular. Given how that one is constructed, I couldn't say if it locks on in such a way as to transfer tone better. It does appear to hold the TOM in place for string changes which is another benefit. The benefit I sought was tone improvement (better definition, fullness, and sustain). A stock TOM is "loose" by design. Loose = tone loss. The stock bridge just rests upon the thumbwheels -- A locking bridge is secured/locked onto the posts. The stock tailpiece slops around (and falls off when the strings are off) -- A locking tailpiece is tightened onto its posts. Physics dictates that by tightening the contact points, string vibration will be transferred intact to the body of the instrument instead of being lost at those loose contact points. It's proven itself to me. I thought maybe I have been missing out on something many of you had already tried. There are at least three popular brands and I won't mention mine b/c I'm don't want to advertise someone else's product on this forum. I compared 3 and from what I could tell they all do essentially the same task. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to sustain on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Well not really. That link is to Epiphone's newest product in reply to the aftermarket ones that are quite popular. Given how that one is constructed' date=' I couldn't say if it locks on in such a way as to transfer tone better. It does appear to hold the TOM in place for string changes which is another benefit. The benefit I sought was tone improvement (better definition, fullness, and sustain). A stock TOM is "loose" by design. Loose = tone loss. The stock bridge just rests upon the thumbwheels -- A locking bridge is secured/locked onto the posts. Physics dictates that by tightening the contact points, string vibration will be transferred intact to the body of the instrument instead of being lost at those loose contact points. It's proven itself to me. [/quote']Really now, seems to me you have it backwards, if indeed your magic bridge transfered energy to the body you would LOSE tone/sustain NOT gain it because you are draining off vibration from the strings which is picked up by the pickups. Step right up folks, plenty of bottes of snake oil fer all of ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 "Really now, seems to me you have it backwards, if indeed your magic bridge transfered energy to the body you would LOSE tone/sustain NOT gain it because you are draining off vibration from the strings which is picked up by the pickups." so explain how the actual wood that the body is made of factors into the equation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 "Really now' date=' seems to me you have it backwards, if indeed your magic bridge transfered energy to the body you would LOSE tone/sustain NOT gain it because you are draining off vibration from the strings which is picked up by the pickups." so explain how the actual wood that the body is made of factors into the equation...[/quote']It does not factor in near as much as some folks think for a solid body electric guitar. Humbucking pups basically float on the pickup ring and springs, so they don't hardly have a chance to pick up body resonances, strat pups are floating on the pickguard, so they can't get much body vibration, so unless the pup is screwed to the body the pup is pretty much out of the equation. So that leaves the 2 points of terminating length string contact for the body wood to affect sound/tone/sustain/ whatever....the bridge and the nut. The nut pretty much isolates the string from the neck wood, the bridge pretty much from the body, so.... I have 2 semi hollow guitars identical except one has a TOM & stoptail, the other a rosewood non fixed bridge and a trapeze tail. 2 VERY different points of contact for the strings termination point, yet both sound near identical. Some folks love a Graphtec saddle in a TOM..don't you think that would totaly isolate the string from the TOM and kill tone??? It doesn't kill it, minor change but not OMG WTF happened to my tone. We're talking a solid body electric guitar here folks, not an electric archtop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 Really now' date=' seems to me you have it backwards, if indeed your magic bridge transfered energy to the body you would LOSE tone/sustain NOT gain it because you are draining off vibration from the strings which is picked up by the pickups. Step right up folks, plenty of bottes of snake oil fer all of ya! [/quote']This has nothing to do with trying to sell you something you don't believe in. It's a poll to see who is using what. No I don't have it backwards and it's not "snake oil" it is science. By clamping tightly the tail end of the string (the nut end is already tightened onto the tuning posts) you secure both ends of the string permiting the string to vibrate longer with each pluck. To see this effect clearly, just loosen your tuners a turn or two and note how much less the string vibrates as the string becomes slack. Furthermore, considerable resonance of the vibrating string is also reflected back and picked up by the pup as it is transferred throughout the body. This adds complexity to tone -- it is why select tone woods are used to make high-quality guitars in the first place, and why premium tone woods like true mahogany win out over alder or other lighter woods in solid body guitars. So MarxBros you don't have to believe it or like it or agree with it, but you're not doing other players any service spouting your misinformation about simple physics principles (or guitar construction) or pooh, poohing an already proven improvement to guitar design. is yours on both counts. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby, I'm going to sustain on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 This is a complete moot discussion if we don't know which locking-system we are talking about. I: I bought new tuners, they're the best! You: Which tuners did you buy Rich? I: Who cares, they tune strings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muletrane Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I put a Tonepros on my Scroll SC550, made very little difference, if any, to my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Obscure Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I don't have one, and I don't see a need for it, unless it's to hold the thing on the posts during string changes. I rarely remove all the strings at once anyway, I change them out one at a time, unless I'm doing a major fretboard and guitar cleaning. If you put one on and It makes you happy, it can't be that bad, right?=D>/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sentry Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 The TonePros bridge made a big difference on my LP custom. I don't know if it will do much for my standard though. (But then again, the stop bar was very snug going down....so snug that I'm not sure the bar can even be moved at all....even w/o the allen locks.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 This has nothing to do with trying to sell you something you don't believe in. It's a poll to see who is using what. No I don't have it backwards and it's not "snake oil" it is science. By clamping tightly the tail end of the string (the nut end is already tightened onto the tuning posts) you secure both ends of the string permiting the string to vibrate longer with each pluck. To see this effect clearly' date=' just loosen your tuners a turn or two and note how much less the string vibrates as the string becomes slack. Furthermore, considerable resonance of the vibrating string is also reflected back and picked up by the pup as it is transferred throughout the body. This adds complexity to tone -- it is why select tone woods are used to make high-quality guitars in the first place, and why premium tone woods like true mahogany win out over alder or other lighter woods in solid body guitars. So MarxBros you don't have to believe it or like it or agree with it, but you're not doing other players any service spouting your misinformation about simple physics principles (or guitar construction) or pooh, poohing an already proven improvement to guitar design. is yours on both counts. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby, I'm going to sustain on:-" You spew a lot of words...but in the end it's just BS. I guarantee you I could do a blindfold tone test with you and you would not reliably pick out when your guitar was being played with and without a locking bridge. Period. I could probably play a guitar that's not even yours and you would not be able to consistently tell the difference if you couldn't see what I was playing. Hell most folks are shocked to find out Jimmy Page was using a Tele on Zep I most folks would swear it's a Les Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lespauljames Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 you lot bicker wayy too much ¬¬ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 Results so far a bit of a surprise to me. Over at Gibson's forum, and a majority of my friends who own Gibby's, seem to favor this upgrade. Wonder what that means? Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Results so far a bit of a surprise to me. Over at Gibson's forum' date=' and a majority of my friends who own Gibby's, seem to favor this upgrade. Wonder what that means? Gibby owners are more willing to invest money in equipment -- even when benefits are minor to some? ...or maybe Epiphone is just doing a better job (closer tolerances, etc.) with their stock T.O.M.? [i']How about some of you multi-guitar owners - CB, Svet, Dave... - what's you're take on the locking vs. stock TOM?[/i] Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Give it a rest already. I was playing around with Tonepros and other locking systems years before most folks knew what they were, I've had many years to see the BS in this. It's a self fulfiling delusion. Again, I would bet good money in a blind tone test you would not be able to reliably pick out your guitar with and without a locked bridge/ stoptail. Handy yes...sonic improvement, far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 MarxBros obviously feels its a waste of money. Some are less expensive, but I paid around $130 for the bridge/tailpiece set and will likely do so again if I buy another TOM-ed guitar. I string 'over-the-top' as well..., maybe this is a reason for different results? Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to sustain on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkin38 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I have one on my 1965 Coronet. Put it in around 1985. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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