Why I hate...."Rock Band"

[andy59]

My grandson also has the guitar in the corner of the room syndrome, but he's only 7, so he has time to decide. As I shared in a another post, playing Guitar Hero with my grandson was in the chain of events that led me back to (at least trying to) play an electric guitar. I also tried Rockband at a video game store. Pretty much the same as Guitar Hero, both are fun with some cool tunes, For me the feeling of mashing the correct button(s) (that loosely correspond to notes) as they stream past a line on the screen is more like air guitar and does not compare to learning one of my favorite songs on my new guitar.

[BlueLesPaul2006]

I am sick of searching for nice guitar covers or guitar reviews or anything guitar on youtube and every other listing is for GUITAR HERO. Hey kids your NOT a guitar hero just cause you can play a video game. but i guess since you can buy a workout game for the Wii you can simulate just about anything now. SAD :-(

[TWANG]

 

But that was all a bit sanctimonious to be fair. Did you' date=' perchance, used to drive around with one of those profoundly irritating "My kid is on the honour roll" bumper stickers? I suspect that you probably did...

 

And I promise to get off your lawn just as soon as my rottweiler's finished crapping on it.[/quote']

 

 

It wasn't the least bit sanctimonious.

You just feel crappy because you're such an ***.

My son did make the honor roll a couple of times..

but we're george carlin fans here.

(george suggested a bumper sticker which read: my kid sells drugs to your honor student)

 

My only point, as any clear headed individual would easily discern, is that people push their children to be them.

 

I do to some extent, and in some ways he is.

 

However.

I was busted for pot. 26 lbs of it, matter of fact.

And did some time in jail for stupid crap like driving fast, and drinking, and generally screwing up.

I have no idea how much booze I poured down my throat, or how many women I've slept with.

No idea at all.

So I'm not so sure I'm all that unhappy he didn't follow my footsteps.

 

We're not some 'high class' family with our nose in the air.

We just try not to be selfish, cruel and stupid.

Of course, I didn't want to say it that way, outright.

 

 

 

And unlike the sanctimonious hypocrits most of my boomer peers are, I disdained lieing about it and told my son the truth.

I am quite pleased that he didn't turn out to be joe redneck, or joe hippy.

 

My son is no hot shot great success. he works hard and plays hard.

He's not always so sweet as the picture painted, but you're not privy to that information. and certainly not with the attitude you've shown.

 

This nephew spoken of has lost his interest in guitar.. he'd rather play games with his friends.

I can't imagine having the amount of disappointment shown toward him in my sons choice.

That was the point.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

You seem to want an apology when you're the one being a jerk.

Well, I have none for you.

Instead I have a few suggestions:

 

Get your own damn kid, and keep your nose out of other people's child rearing.

Stop thinking you know it all.

Stop trying to compel people to be like you.

Stop judging so harshly before you address the mote in your own eye.

Try to improve your reading comprehension while you're at it.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I just finished watching a movie with the kid.. and I'm gonna go steal a shot of his

Capt. Morgan and listen to Chinese Democracy.

 

You might want to ask yourself how much time you spend with this nephew doing something he likes.

Learning what his interests are. Who he is. Because that's the only person he'll ever be. And you only get one shot

at being around him. Time does that to everyone.

 

As a mentor, you suck.

 

TWANG

[RichardLionhart]

Wanna throw my two cents in on this one...

 

I absolutely LOVE video games. I've played them heavily since I was 2 years old and had an Atari 2600. None of that stopped me from having a great home, happy relationships, a wonderful social life, playing sports in school, becoming an Olympic alternate for Team USA in 2000, and completing a college degree.

 

To this day I still play video games DAILY. I own every version of Guitar Hero and both versions of Rock Band. Even though I've listened to tons of music my whole life (I'm only 30) and minored in music theory in college, these music video games have exposed me to many songs and groups I never would have listened to or heard, had I not played the games. And of course, these are great to do with my girlfriend, family, and friends. And, it can also make for one hell of a party.

 

As a psychologist, I council inmates and work in classifications at a local correctional facility, and I also council individuals and their families... children included. The subject of video games has been broached many times by parents regarding their children during sessions. I am a STRONG advocate for video games, the music related ones in particular. The guitar/drum/vocal aspect of these games may not accurately represent the "real thing", but it DOES help with rhythm, hand-eye coordination, and keeps the brain active. That helps a person to think ahead... keeps them ol' brain neurons firing at full speed. All of these are positives. It also exposes children, as well as adults, to music they may not normally listen to. (Such as myself, as stated above)

 

These music games DO also inspire some people to want to play an actual instrument. This is a GREAT thing! I get all warm and fuzzy when I think about it, because it actually helped to push ME into buying my very first guitar. (So here I am in the Epi forum ) I also play the piano, violin, and saxaphone. Had always had a little interest in guitar, but the GAMES are what actually made me go out and buy a real one. I've been taking private lessons for six weeks now and am still loving it.

 

I cannot find any real fault in these games personally. I don't feel that they detract from real music or instrument practice. If the person, be it child or adult, really has the desire to play, they're not going to allow the game to stand in their way. If someone has SOME interest, but just isn't sure, I feel that the games can be a positive reinforcement and give them that nudge in the direction they're leaning. Children/teens tend to have a short attention span... not just when listening, but also when it comes to hobbies. What was cool for a few months can become "old hat" rather quickly. That could potentially be the case with your nephew, Leicester. That isn't to say that he won't pick up his shiny new Squier in a few months and be active with it again. I myself tend to go through phases with some things and have a hobby du'jur.

 

Long winded... I know, but I feel very strongly about this. To be quite honest, I was just playing Rock Band 2 on my X-Box 360 earlier this evening, but I also spent a good amount of time practicing with my Epi. I find myself playing songs in the game and saying to myself, "Hey, that was a really cool riff," or, "That had a neat progression to it. I wonder if I can find a tab for that online?" I would hope that there are others here that can share the same opinion or perhaps see where I'm coming from in my point of view. It's really not a bad thing.

[LesBonfire]

I also play tons of video games, Xbox 360 and PS3. Playing Call of Duty 4 or Gears of War online is fun as hell! Rockband is just another game, its good to get together with some friends and some Moosehead and throw down some plastic guitar (and drum) hero moves hahaha! But I do understand ur point leicester...if someone is so into Rockband you'd think they'd wanna play the real thing..and some do. Its introduced a lot of music to kids that they never would have heard other wise, its also a new revolution for music...bands can make their whole album downloaded for us to play but most importantly listen to...and make them money! My father came for a visit from out East (Canada) and wanted to see what this guitar hero/rockband thing was all about...so i plugged it in and started playing "run to the hills" by ironmaiden and as i'm clickin the buttons my dad age 50 is layin down the opening lick to that damn song, we pretty much played the entire song through then we went onto "train kept a rollin"...its just a good time...that's what rock n' roll is about right? And don't worry...there are lots of us out there that are still pluckin away on our guitars...so many of us....that people are makin fakes of the guitars that we desire...leicester if you really wanna impress him...play along on your guitar and blow him away..show him how much cooler it is to be able to play the song on a real guitar...and sneak him a beer!!!

[Mugatu]

I feel quite sorry for Leicester taking all this flak! I think he's raised a fair point, that some kids these days are into video games to the exclusion of all else, and I think that's a shame.

 

I don't for one minute think he's trying to be a surrogate father, a mentor, or anything else... he's just dissapointed that this kid wanted a guitar for so long, and now it sits in a corner while he "simulates" it on the telly. I can empathise with what he's feeling. At the same time I can accept other people's views, not everyone finds that proper music is for them, and of course he may change his mind one day. I also agree that there is nothing wrong with enjoying the video version per se, it's just nice to see someone want to do the real thing as well.

 

Was it the dad in "American Pie" that said... "It's like playing a tennis ball against a brick wall, which can be fun. It can be fun, but it's not a game." :-D

 

As an aside, I serve in the military, and I had a Mother contact me recently to ask if her son could do work experience with us. I said of course he could. She said "He'll make an excellent soldier".

"Oh?" I said... "Why's that?"

She replied "He's brilliant at Medal of honour".

 

I had to point out that if I got slotted on my recent tour in Iraq, I couldn't just press "Play again".

[Bender 4 Life]

I tried "guitar hero" exactly ONCE!

As the game was repeating for the 3rd time what a LOSER I evidently am (at g/h that is)

I noticed a boy of approximately 8 yrs old giggling out loud at me. (waiting for HIS turn at stardom)

 

As I sent him scurrying elsewhere, with the fresh info. that I was probably his REAL daddy, I

realized the game was probably not for me.

 

I'll stick with the real deal........too old to learn those 5 plastic buttons.

[leicester35]

 

 

It wasn't the least bit sanctimonious.

You just feel crappy because you're such an ***.

My son did make the honor roll a couple of times..

but we're george carlin fans here.

(george suggested a bumper sticker which read: my kid sells drugs to your honor student)

 

My only point' date=' as any clear headed individual would easily discern, is that people push their children to be them.

 

I do to some extent, and in some ways he is.

 

However.

I was busted for pot. 26 lbs of it, matter of fact.

And did some time in jail for stupid crap like driving fast, and drinking, and generally screwing up.

I have no idea how much booze I poured down my throat, or how many women I've slept with.

No idea at all.

So I'm not so sure I'm all that unhappy he didn't follow my footsteps.

 

We're not some 'high class' family with our nose in the air.

We just try not to be selfish, cruel and stupid.

Of course, I didn't want to say it that way, outright.

 

 

 

And unlike the sanctimonious hypocrits most of my boomer peers are, I disdained lieing about it and told my son the truth.

I am quite pleased that he didn't turn out to be joe redneck, or joe hippy.

 

My son is no hot shot great success. he works hard and plays hard.

He's not always so sweet as the picture painted, but you're not privy to that information. and certainly not with the attitude you've shown.

 

This nephew spoken of has lost his interest in guitar.. he'd rather play games with his friends.

I can't imagine having the amount of disappointment shown toward him in my sons choice.

That was the point.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

You seem to want an apology when you're the one being a jerk.

Well, I have none for you.

Instead I have a few suggestions:

 

Get your own damn kid, and keep your nose out of other people's child rearing.

Stop thinking you know it all.

Stop trying to compel people to be like you.

Stop judging so harshly before you address the mote in your own eye.

Try to improve your reading comprehension while you're at it.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I just finished watching a movie with the kid.. and I'm gonna go steal a shot of his

Capt. Morgan and listen to Chinese Democracy.

 

You might want to ask yourself how much time you spend with this nephew doing something he likes.

Learning what his interests are. Who he is. Because that's the only person he'll ever be. And you only get one shot

at being around him. Time does that to everyone.

 

As a mentor, you suck.

 

TWANG [/quote']

 

Do you think this an entirely rational or proportionate response? He's my sister's kid. I'm the only one in our family who plays guitar, he had expressed an interest, and she asked me to help out. The end. I'm not trying to be a surrogate father, or even a mentor to him. He doesn’t need one as he already has a great Dad - my brother in law. And no, I wasn't standing next to his crib with a guitar in my hand, trying to foist it on him from the moment he was born. I never raised the subject of guitars until he brought it up first. As I said in my earlier post, I was just a little disappointed because I feel that he has a real interest in music, and I reckon his enthusiasm for the guitar would have stuck if Rock Band had not supplanted it. Perhaps Rock Band will broaden his interest in music and he will eventually want to create music for himself on an instrument (whatever that instrument turns out to be.) If not, no problem. He seems to do well at school from what my sister tells me, he plays football (soccer), and he doesn't seem to get into any trouble. I'm sure he will do well. And that is the sum total of my "mentoring" evaluation of him.

 

Which leads me to you... If you don't mind my asking, what the bloody hell was all that crap about:

 

"We're not some 'high class' family with our nose in the air.

We just try not to be selfish, cruel and stupid.

Of course, I didn't want to say it that way, outright." ??

 

I'm just a normal bloke, who grew up in a council house in a fairly industrial city in the midlands of England. Were you making assumptions to the contrary? Is that indicative of some misplaced preconceptions about the English class system on your part? Sorry to dispel your illusions, but I'm a fish & chips and pint of bitter type of fellow - not afternoon tea at the Ritz.

And why did you try and turn a discussion about the merits / demerits of a video game into a psychological analysis of me...?

 

I have neither the time nor the energy to get involved in a pissing contest with you, and this forum doesn't need that anyway, given that recent nonsense with Prolife over at the Beatles thread.

 

You dragged this thread off-topic with your weird self-indulgent musings on your own past and your status as a parent, written in a strange form of irregular verse.

 

Frankly, TWANG, just bugger off and leave me alone.

[SlagJones]

I am sick of searching for nice guitar covers or guitar reviews or anything guitar on youtube and every other listing is for GUITAR HERO. Hey kids your NOT a guitar hero just cause you can play a video game. but i guess since you can buy a workout game for the Wii you can simulate just about anything now. SAD :-(

 

You obviously don't know how to search very well. I look for and find TONS of guitar covers and other guitar stuff on youtube and don't run into that many Guitar Hero videos. I see all kinds of videos made by kids playing real guitars and doing quite well at it. Don't worry the youth of today isn't fully absorbed by video games, there are plenty out there doing the real thing or maybe playing both! I don't know anyone who believes they are a Guitar Hero because they play a video game, they do believe that they are good at playing a video game called Guitar Hero tho. A big difference.

[stan 58]

The think that baffles me, is that the kids seem to love the music on rock star,like my 16 year old niece playing Paranoid and saying i love this part, but when you look at the music charts, there's nothing like that being sold. There's not too many new bands that make music, that would work on Rock Band. I'm i missing something? Stan.

[SlagJones]

I tend to blame the record industry. They have distilled music down to what THEY think will sell and create bands in that image. Kids today don't really know what they like other than what is forced down their throats by mainsteam media. That's one of the reason why I applaud GH and RB for at least introducing kids to some classic rock tunes that have stood the test of time.

I also think these things come in cycles, once the industry gets stale or overly manufactured, something usually comes along to break up the status quo and push music into new areas or somehow reinvent itself. Where is the next visionary, the next pioneer?

[leicester35]

I rather regret bringing this topic to the forum, in hindsight - as it has turned out to be quite polarizing.

 

It seems to cause strong feelings to bubble to the surface.

 

John Mayer, (the great modern guitarist for our times?) was decidedly less than diplomatic about the game when talking to Rolling Stone: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/21004549/secrets_of_the_guitar_heroes_john_mayer/2

 

I think it's also fair to say that Nickelback have no plans to stop by Circuit City to pick up a Guitar Hero version of a Gibson Explorer anytime soon: http://www.tiscali.co.uk/games/news/2008/11/20/nickelback-criticise-guitar-hero.html

 

I guess this will be a topic that we will never resolve one way or the other...as I said earlier, to each his own.

 

My apologies to anyone who ended up being offended during this thread (well, with the exception of TWANG that is.)

[stan 58]

No need for regret, it's been a great topic, one i've thought about a lot lately. Those darn kids!!! Stan. P.S. IMHO guys like Mayer & Nickelback are the problem not the cure.

[leicester35]

No need for regret' date=' it's been a great topic, one i've thought about a lot lately. Those darn kids!!! Stan. P.S. IMHO guys like Mayer & Nickelback are the problem not the cure. [/quote']

 

I came to respect Mayer a lot more after seeing him live and listening to the John Mayer Trio album, Try! I actually went to the gig to see Ben Folds (who was touring that summer, supporting Mayer), but stuck around for Mayer's performance.

 

He is actually a wondeful blues player. Sometimes, in his writings, he strikes me as a rather arrogant person, but what the heck - the guy has something to be arrogant about. Besides, one does not have to like these people in order to admire their talent.

 

Nickelback I can live without.

[pohatu771]

I'm very good at Wii bowling.

Does that mean I actually suck at REAL bowling?

If you're like me, yes. My Wii score is double my real-life score.

 

I have Guitar Hero... I don't play it much, because I get sick of hearing the same songs over and over again, but if you're in a group, it's quite fun.

 

I will say, I don't like the real wood guitars you can buy now for the games... I understand that in a bar or other sort of public game room, they may be worth the investment, being more durable than the tiny plastic instruments, but I don't think they're necessary for home use.

[stan 58]

I bought the Try CD and i did'nt do it for me, but thats just me. I think it shows the lack of good guitars players in general, that he get invites to things like the crossroad concerts IMHO. Stan.

[tulsaslim]

South Park had one of the greatest parodies you'll ever see on this topic. I especially like the part where Stan's dad plays a 'real guitar' and the kids all laugh & say 'real guitars are for old folks'.

[charlie brown]

Well, a game about playing "Classic Rock," and "button guitar," is healthier, seems to me, than the ones that promote excessive, and ever more realistic, "Ultra-violence." But, hey...I'm a left over "Hippy"....Peace and Love, and all that! LOL!

 

CB

[SlagJones]

I rather regret bringing this topic to the forum' date=' in hindsight - as it has turned out to be quite polarizing.

 

It seems to cause strong feelings to bubble to the surface.

 

John Mayer, (the great modern guitarist for our times?) was decidedly less than diplomatic about the game when talking to [i']Rolling Stone[/i]: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/21004549/secrets_of_the_guitar_heroes_john_mayer/2

 

I think it's also fair to say that Nickelback have no plans to stop by Circuit City to pick up a Guitar Hero version of a Gibson Explorer anytime soon: http://www.tiscali.co.uk/games/news/2008/11/20/nickelback-criticise-guitar-hero.html

 

I guess this will be a topic that we will never resolve one way or the other...as I said earlier, to each his own.

 

My apologies to anyone who ended up being offended during this thread (well, with the exception of TWANG that is.)

 

I think it's a good topic and I guess I get frustrated when it seems that there is this idea that playing GH and RB is somehow at the expense of real guitar playing. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. There are kids that play these games that probably would never pickup up a guitar anyway. There are some that already play real guitar. There are some that actually want to play a real guitar now.

There was a certain amount of guitar players before GH ever existed and I would bet that since GH hit the market, there are more people that picked up a guitar and are still with it than before. In otherwords, I don't think that the advent of these games has caused a decline in guitar players.

 

Mayer talks like playing these games gives undeserving people the rewards of playing the guitar without the effort. I disagree, the only thing these games do is reward playing a game. While it simulates a guitar it is in actuality a simple game that allows you to graphically keep a rythm to a song using a button controller. You don't get the rewards of playing a guitar because you aren't playing a guitar. Frankly, I find his thinking very elitist like guitar playing should only be for the select few or I put in the blood sweat and tears on the real thing while you just play a plastic toy. People know they are playing a toy. I am pretty sure most people who play GH and RB aren't thinking they are real rockstars or better than John Mayer because they got a perfect score and anyone that does is seriously deluded.

 

Kids playing video games is not the reason for a lack of quality players. The real reason is the industry and bands like Nickelback that are producing pablum that fails to inspire kids to start bands.

[RichardLionhart]

Kids playing video games is not the reason for a lack of quality players. The real reason is the industry and bands like Nickelback that are producing pablum that fails to inspire kids to start bands.

 

I have to agree with you. I think when the next big movement in music hits, people will again aspire to play like the ones that are causing the stir. Music went through some massive changes in 50s-70s... maybe a little in the 80s too for some. But things were being played in ways that had never been heard. That is what made a lot of you older fellas want to play, right?... seeing the Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, whoever was your cup of tea.

 

I personally feel the market is kind of stagnant at the moment as far as something "new" goes. Not to say there aren't still great guitarists out there. I'm not a fan of John Mayer in the least, but there is NO question for me about his major talent and ability to play. He just isn't for me.

 

I'm glad you started this topic Leicester. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading the responses posted.

 

Stan - Call me Sherlock... ... I just noticed your new avatar pic for the holidays. I really like that shot. Cool beans. : )

[leicester35]

South Park had one of the greatest parodies you'll ever see on this topic. I especially like the part where Stan's dad plays a 'real guitar' and the kids all laugh & say 'real guitars are for old folks'.

 

Ha! Yes indeed...here you go:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1TyT8rH4F0

 

Stan's dad showing a bit of enthusiasm for Kansas there...

[SlagJones]

A Les Paul and Vox man.

[Just Strum]

Well' date=' a game about playing "Classic Rock," and "button guitar," is healthier, seems to me, than the ones that promote excessive, and ever more realistic, "Ultra-violence." But, hey...I'm a left over "Hippy"....Peace and Love, and all that! LOL!

 

CB[/quote']

 

I was thinking the same thing when I read the thread yesterday. I will admit being pretty much clueless when it comes to the gaming world.

[BlueLesPaul2006]

 

You obviously don't know how to search very well. I look for and find TONS of guitar covers and other guitar stuff on youtube and don't run into that many Guitar Hero videos. I see all kinds of videos made by kids playing real guitars and doing quite well at it. Don't worry the youth of today isn't fully absorbed by video games' date=' there are plenty out there doing the real thing or maybe playing both! I don't know anyone who believes they are a Guitar Hero because they play a video game, they do believe that they are good at playing a video game called Guitar Hero tho. A big difference. [/quote']

 

I do find great covers on youtube all the time. my point is that kids today will sit inside and play football or baseball on their t.v. on a nice sunny day instead of going out and playing for real. and i agree with you i see kids on youtube that can play better than i can. in addition i love to play video games and i do so on a regular basis. however, people take this to far. you say that people that play rock band and guitar hero don't think they are real rock stars i say B.S. look at this site where there was a rock band competition in the U.K. http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/831/831672p1.html thousands of people came to watch people playing music through a video game. I see it as if the kids took the time to really learn music and how to play an instrument they would have much more self esteem and use their time in a more constructive manner. you say don't worry about the youth of today being fully absorbed in video games? I ask you what do you do for a living? I am a middle school teacher. I am around kids all day and they all (mostly boys) talk endlessly about video games. very few talk about playing a real guitar or any other instrument for that matter. yeah plenty of kids and adults alike like to play the game and i tell you this when I first played guitar hero I was at a bar and had a buzz, it was fun then. but to see things like a rock band competition makes me sick. people take things like this to far.

[leicester35]

 

people take things like this to far.

 

Well BlueLesPaul, should ever change your mind - here are some tips for (ahem!) modifying your Blue Les Paul...

 

http://www.xyhd.tv/2007/10/how-to/tips-and-tricks-to-build-a-real-guitar-controller-just-in-time-for-guitar-hero-3/