Honest, Critical Evaluation, of Chinese Made Sheraton, Dot, Casino...Please.

[charlie brown]

Hello ALL...need some help, here. I have only photos to

go on, via the net, and this site...and, I know/understand

the specs, and visual details...have commented on them,

numerous times. BUT..."hands on," is something else, entirely.

As some of you may be aware, I live in "the Sticks," and have

little opportunity, anymore, to get to a decent Music/Guitar store,

to get my "hands on" the newer (Chinese) made Epi's...

Especially, the Semi's...Dot, Sheri, and Casino. A very good

friend of mine, wants a new Sheraton, very badly, so I need

some honest, critical, no BS evaluations, of that model,

and the Dot, and Casino, too...just as "back ups." I figure,

there are a lot of owners of older Korean/Japanese Sheratons

that can compare, and evaluate (constructively), how the new

ones "stack up," all prejudice (hopefully) aside.

 

Thanks, in advance..

CB

[AS90]

I tried a couple of Chinese Casinos a few weeks ago, I was not impressed. The fit and finish was very poor, the black paint inside the F holes was smudged onto the top, the knobs were wonky, the nut wasn't cut properly etc etc. They didn't sound great either, a bit dull for a Casino.

[Lord Summerisle]

My advice to your friend, really, would be to get out there and see what he can find. After all, a modern Sheraton is really just a 335-clone, and there are a variety of options to choose from. Falling in love with the Sheraton means that he may be inclined just to go ahead and order a new Chinese Sheraton sight-unseen, and may be disappointed in the end.

 

I went looking for a semi in January, and played three of the new Chinese Sheratons in my local GC, one ebony and two naturals. I can't say I was very impressed at all. The beautiful 5-piece neck of the Korean Unsung-builds has gone. Also, as some have noticed here, the new guitars have virtually no grain at all:

 

 

Is this indicative of lower-quality wood, and does this partly contribute to the less than jaw-dropping tone?

 

Option 1 for your friend would be to keep his eyes-peeled for a lightly-used Korean Sheraton.

 

But also explore other options. I was quite impressed by the Washburn HB35:

 

 

...and also those new Greg Bennett guitars (built by Samick):

 

 

+ my eventual purchase and resultant new-found affinity for the re-issued Hagstroms, which (you are all probably bored of hearing about now...)

 

 

 

There are plenty of choices out there. No need to get "locked into" a Sheraton until the quality starts to come back up again (which it will do, eventually...)

 

EDIT:

 

Of course, if your friend wants a well-crafted Chinese Epiphone, look what I just found advertised for sale at Fuller's:

 

 

[Bender 4 Life]

A few months ago I gave a Chinese Sherri and a Chinese Dot both a test drive @ my local GC store.............

 

The Sherri was a natural finish with a 1 pc.(as opposed to the traditional 3 pc.) apparently maple neck, the fit was ok, but not what i'd expect for a guitar in this price range, the finish was a different story........it looked like it had been dipped in clear plastic, until it had a 1/8" thick buildup. The action was TERRIBLE, as in, needing more than just a setup, possibly a neck adjustment right off the bat.

The acoustic sound was almost non-existent it was so flat (i guess from the finish) but the electric sound was passable, once I realized that the pot's were wired backwards from the pickups.

 

The Dot was also a natural finish, with a neck the approximate color of walnut(?). The fit was a little better than the Sherri's, but it was also encased in plastic.

TERRIBLE action, TERRIBLE acoustic sound, but passable as an electric, the electronics were wired correctly on this one.(possibly the Sherri just needed the 3 way turned 180 degrees)

 

The fretboard on BOTH were bright RED, and the Sherri's inlays looked like they used solid instead of pearloid mat'l.

 

If it was ME making the purchase, i'd shop around for a lightly used Korean, or wait a while hoping the Chinese QC improves.........if (as they promoted recently) ALL Epi's are inspected and setup in Nashville, they need to tighten up a bit........both guitars were disappointing.

[duane v]

I've yet to consider purchasing a Chinese or Korean made Epi guitar for myself. But the few I have played at music stores have played very well, and for the price they were a great value.

[timandbob]

I have a Dot Deluxe, built in Nov 2007 from China. I had lots of intonation issues, especially on the g string (and the d string). The action was also very high. I had the Dot set up, but it still wasn't great; and in fact when I asked why the intonation wasn't great still, after the set up, the person who did the set up said, "Well, they all can't be perfect." So i bought a new nut and lowered the action a bunch. Now it tunes better, but it still has a bit of intonation issues.

[Mark Lysaght]

Hi

 

I'm new to this Forum and only really know about Sheratons as I've played quite a few. I bought a 1998 Korean made model about 4 years ago second-hand - the guitar was absolutely immaculate. I have yet to play a Sheraton as good as the one I have.

 

One thing I have always noticed over many years is that if you try out 2 "identical" guitars", one will always sound better than the other! So don't assume that all Chinese-made models are the same, you can usually at least find a "best" one within any category.

 

That said, it is obvious to me that the Korean-made Sheratons generally have better wood and a better build quality than some of the more recent examples I've played in shops.

 

If I were you, I would venture into the second hand market as it is possible to pick up some very good bargains from people who want to off-load instruments, which in many cases are little-used and in excellent condition. The only down-side is that you don't always get EXACTLY what you are looking for, and also you need to be able to spot signs of damage or abuse -or bring along someone who can do this for you.

 

Hope this helps.

[mgrasso]

I was able to compare an 08 Chinese Sheraton (Ebony) with an 06 Peerless Sheraton (Natural) about a month ago at the Pittsburgh Guitar Center in Robinson.

 

This is the first Chinese I have played, and do not know if this is indicitive of the whole line.

 

I tried the Chinese first. Could not tell how the neck was constructed. The setup was bad. I asked a manager if these were setup prior to hanging, and he said no. It was almost unplayable. The action was so high, it did not make sence to try anything with it.

 

I then went on to inspect the craftsmanship. Like stated before, it seemed like it was made of plastic. There were some rough edges which surpised me.

 

Beside it was the 06. Setup beautifully. 3 piece neck. Very nice finish, very smooth. Action was set for my liking, but I did not have a way to measure it. At the time was on sale with the $100 price drop for $599. So was the Chinese model.

 

From this encounter, I would not encourage purchasing a Chinese Sheraton sight unseen.

 

Have your friend try to find one of the last new Koreans online if possible. If not, and I know this sounds like an ad for e-bay, but look for a late model with little play time there.

[tsiratiug]

Two weeks ago I bought a new Sheraton II VS. I’ve played Tele’s and Strats for over 25 years and decided to try a semi-hollow for a change of …well, everything. Being a life long Fender guy, I’m not familiar with the in and outs of various Epi versions (Korean vs. Chinese, etc.).

 

Here’s my assessment: The fit and finish is very nice and on par with instruments in the next tax bracket. It’s an impressive guitar to look at. Right out of the box, the nut was binding horribly and the tuning problems made the guitar unplayable - it became a new guitar on day two after switching to my standard string choice (EB-10’s) and adding a little Graphitall to the nut. The action was near perfect from the factory – a little lower than I prefer on a Fender but just right for a semi. The tuners are smooth and accurate. The electronics are average – more than adequate for broad tone shaping. I’ll need more time with the guitar to know if the volume/tone controls will let me dial in subtle nuances. No complaints about the pups so far. Through my silverface Deluxe Reverb, the bridge pup has a presence that cuts through a live mix easily. The rhythm pup is a fat smooth sound but wants to disappear in a crowded mix – I’ll try to solve this by tweaking my rig before I think about replacing anything. I don’t like the forward strap button position but where else would they put it?

This guitar is getting tons of compliments from everyone and is pleasant to play. It’s the kind of guitar you want to pick up and play. What more could you ask for in a guitar? I’m sure as I get more hours on it and become a full fledged semi hollow Epi-head, I’ll find things about this guitar I might want to change next go round but, today, I’m 100% satisfied with my new Sheri.

[charlie brown]

This is very interesting. Myself, I own only 1 "Chinese" guitar, the Epiphone Riviera P-93LE, which is very well made, finished,

and the set up was great, right out of the box. (I did make some slight adjustments for MY preferences, but otherwise it was

just fine.) SO...I was hoping, that was going to be the "norm," from the Qind Dao Chinese factory. What I'm hearing now,

though, is quite different. I know the best thing my firiend can do, is go play a bunch of them...Sheratons, Dots, even the "competitions,"

versions, and see for himself. (I already told him that, by the way), but I thought I'd do a bit of preliminary "research" on his

behalf. So, this IS helpful....please continue, both the positive and negative. Specifics, too, would be helpful.

 

Thanks, ALL...

CB

[jazzgirl]

The Epi Dot I have is a 2008 Made in China (with EE serial number) in cherry red. The poly finish is't too bad, evenly applied, with no orange peel or other major finishing problems. Out of the box, it had decent intonation. I had a new bone nut cut and fully set up and it plays like butter with nice low action. However, note that there's dreadful quality control on the Casinos and Dots. Before my purchase, I played like over a dozen Dots before I found one that plays really well. Most simply were bad -- real bad both in finishing and playability. I actually wanted the natural finish, but couldn't find a good player in that color, and settled for the cherry. One thing is that on the cherry, the paint or stain or whatever, bleeds like majorly into the cream colored binding all over the instrument and looks cheap and ugly. The fretboard is not bound. It's not a looker, that's for sure. I looked at the Ibanez AS73 in transparent cherry and it looks like a million bucks compared to the Dot when you compare the fit and finish. All the AS73's were like flawless. But I liked the fat neck on the Dot better than the AS73 and that's what drove my decision. Oh yeah, the Dot's pickups are real nasty with absolutely no clarity. They sound cheap to my ears kinda like a Jay Turser. No. I think the Jay Turser might sound better stock. What else? Oh, the Dot's tuners are marked Grover but they don't hold tune like real Grovers. Are these fake Grovers? They really do require replacement. I took mine back to the shop and they said they'd replace the tuners, but the whole instrument, not just the tuners. It took me a long time to find a playable Dot, so I kept it. I like the Keystone style tuners better anyways, but I'll be out an extra $40 for this "upgrade" down the road.

[Lord Summerisle]

The Epi Dot I have is a 2008 Made in China (with EE serial number) in cherry red. The poly finish is't too bad' date=' evenly applied, with no orange peel or other major finishing problems. Out of the box, it had decent intonation. I had a new bone nut cut and fully set up and it plays like butter with nice low action. However, note that there's dreadful quality control on the Casinos and Dots. Before my purchase, I played like over a dozen Dots before I found one that plays really well. Most simply were bad -- real bad both in finishing and playability. I actually wanted the natural finish, but couldn't find a good player in that color, and settled for the cherry. One thing is that on the cherry, the paint or stain or whatever, bleeds like majorly into the cream colored binding all over the instrument and looks cheap and ugly. The fretboard is not bound. It's not a looker, that's for sure. I looked at the Ibanez AS73 in transparent cherry and it looks like a million bucks compared to the Dot when you compare the fit and finish. All the AS73's were like flawless. But I liked the fat neck on the Dot better than the AS73 and that's what drove my decision. Oh yeah, the Dot's pickups are real nasty with absolutely no clarity. They sound cheap to my ears kinda like a Jay Turser. No. I think the Jay Turser might sound better stock. What else? Oh, the Dot's tuners are marked Grover but they don't hold tune like real Grovers. Are these fake Grovers? They really do require replacement. I took mine back to the shop and they said they'd replace the tuners, but the whole instrument, not just the tuners. It took me a long time to find a playable Dot, so I kept it. I like the Keystone style tuners better anyways, but I'll be out an extra $40 for this "upgrade" down the road.[/quote']

 

I think you were just unlucky with the Grovers, I have the stock Epi-installed Grovers on my G-400, and they're sweet.

 

I'm not convinced by those Artcores at all. They may look beautiful...but then Cubic Zirconia looks beautiful too, right? ...but its beauty is strictly superficial...I might give the Artcore AS103 the benefit of the doubt, but I looked long and hard at an AM73 in GC one day...and it was garbage. Looked like stained balsa wood.

[mbberry]

after reading all of these posts i have come to realize i may be the luckiest guy out there. bought a 2008 dot sight unseen from mf. the closest guitar store that has more than five guitars on the wall is about a two hour drive. and right out of the box it was fine. good finish. nice intonation. no major problems at all to speak of. just a very good playable guitar.

[GaryM]

Hi all! New member here. I've just scored a '99 Korean Dot together with an '07 Chinese Casino. So, I'd like to share about the Chinese Casino. I got it from a pawn shop used. It looked brand spankin' new.

 

CONS

 

At home, tuning stability was not great. I traced it to the nut slots being too tight for a set of 10s. A quick pass with a set of nut files cured that problem. The next day, I was admiring it under direct sunlight and noticed sanding scratches on the top UNDER the finish near the body edges. It is only visible under certain angles and invisible from six feet away. The pickups measure 11K ohms on my meter. I think they are wound too hot and it is slightly midrange heavy in the tone department. The pickups are not hum canceling when both pickups are on. The maple has little grain showing, giving a plain vanilla appearance. (Picture below.) I may replace the pickups with something closer to stock Gibson P90s.

 

PROS

 

The acoustic sound is marvelous. The same day I was shopping, another pawn shop had a Casino that was made in Japan. (Elite?) The Chinese version felt and sounded the same as the Japanese Casino which was marked $1,000. I got mine for $400. I took my Casino and the Epi DOT to a gig last weekend. I fully expected to play the DOT but the Casino sounded better with the band at sound check! During the gig, the Chinese Casino performed flawlessly. It did get a few cents out of tune here and there during the gig but the tone blended well with bass, drums, 12 string acoustic, piano and three singers. That unique Casino tone is something that I will enjoy using in future gigs. With a Timmy clone overdrive pedal, there were no microphonic issues with the pickups. This through a 50 watt tube Bassman and 1X12 cab. Solos flat rocked.

 

Best regards,

 

Gary

 

 

 

EDIT TO ADD: I also own an Ibanez AS73. Though the finish looks great on it, upper fret access is poor.

[K.E.B.1281734147]

Guitars are like people. Some are smooth, some sound great, some just feel good. Unfortunately, in this price bracket, the guitar needs to be handled. Guitar Center has a 30 day guarantee. That's the nice thing about buying online. I went into the store and cherry picked one out of 4 other Dots. They each had their own characteristics. I was searching for acoustic tone. Is the fit and finish on mine immaculate? No. Is it on every Gibson I've ever played? Pretty much. The more it costs, the more attention to detail they get. There are blessed guitars where everything just comes together like it was destiny, no matter where it was born or how much it costs. That's what I think anyhow. Good luck to you and your friend CB.

[superbadj]

I've played a couple of Chinese EE Casinos that sounded and played really quite well. But I've also played a number of them that just sounded flat. I do know that my 2001 Peerless Casino (natural) is flat-out amazing. By far the best of the group. I will say that ALL of the newer Casinos and Dots that I see are far, far, far paler than my 2001 guitar. It's got a great tint to it.

 

I also have a 1988 to 1990-ish (not sure) Sheraton, and I'm still working on this one. Actually, the guitar is great. I'm just not bonding with the pickups that quickly. May have to change them out. But the guitar itself is top-notch.

[Hiberna]

I went on a search a few months ago to find the best hollowbody, i played all of them but a sheraton.

 

Epi Dot (2008 china), Was badly put together and i know epiphone never put the E's on pickguard on propperly but the dot i tryed the E fell off mid playing. Also the finish was natural and looked quite nice but the poly coat on it was so thick i think there was more plastic on the guitar then wood. No balls with distortions, they were crisp but a little thin, but alright cleans

 

Epi Casino (it was newish and Chinese, cant remember the year), wasnt bad at all, sounded quite nice but the action was a little high for my tastes and it slipped quite a bit with the tunings. some nice growl on distortions but was a little muddy, again, nice cleans

 

Epi Casino (Korean, pre 2000) was really quite nice, the finish was immaculate vintage sunburst, and it sounded quite nice. although it was already owned by a friend of mine and im not a fan of the vintage sunburst. Lots of growl on distortions, not as muddy as the other casino but was a little, again, nice cleans.

 

Ibanez artcore (Dont know which just tryed a few of them) all of them seemed very similar to each other but i could help getting a feel of them all being a, "Wannabe". It just felt like they were all trying to hard. Dont get me wrong, they all looked nice and sounded great but they are also very suitted for one sound, they dont really do variety, muddy distortions, but nice clean jazz and blues tones.

 

Gretch white falcon (No idea how old it was), it was gorgeous it played like a dream great jazz tones and looks insanely good but.... not suited for the stuff i play, its kinda like putting distortion threw an acoustic and at the hefty £2000 i couldnt go for it.

 

Gibson 335 and 355 (New), both very nice, one cherry and the other vintage sunburst, and not drowned in a poly coat like the epi's and sounded really good, were very comfortable too but when i put some heavier tones and distortions they felt like they both lacked balls, felt like they wernt putting in the effort.

 

Epi Riviera (1997 Korean(Full hum-buckers, not the mini ones)), it was beautiful, not drowned in that poly lacuer, it was like a trans dark red, you could say rouge or maroon. Anyway it sounded really sparkly and vibrant on clean then thinking it would carry on the trend of most the hollowbodys it would let me down on distortion, it didnt. When you stack the gain on it, it just takes it and makes it sound crisp and felt like it was full of vibe.

 

so out of all of them i did buy the riviera and ive never never turned back. My only complaint is that Epiphone cut alot of corners with certain things and its mostly with the electrics. The pots suck, the pickups are just fine but another thing is they dont clip back the wires in the chambers so you can see them threw the F holes. then again the other riviera which i just bought had the electronics completely fried.

 

So go for the old rivieras, or the old sheratons, i hear they're just as awesome.

[newlife15]

Regardless of what guitar is purchased, bottom line is that most guitars will need a setup after purchase.

if you order from any of the online shops that percentage increases. Quality control seem to me it means lack of control over the quality.

probably one of the reasons our country is in the shape it is. oops wrong forum :-)

 

I own a EPI DOT 335 and The Epi Sheri II plus just recently the Epi 63 DOT Elitist.

all three received a setup when purchased and play wonderfully. (especially the Elitist it is like butter.)

We also know that we will upgrade the guitars most of the time. pickups pots caps switches nuts and so on

it is our nature.

but the best way is to go into guitar shops that have these guitars you are looking for and make a sound decision knowing that more than likely that the finished product will no be the guitar you purchase.

[wiggy]

I bought a 2008 Dot Studio back in August. There was a choice of two at the time plus the shop demo. Having played all three there was very little in it between them all (the demo guitar felt slightly better but I guess that was due to being played in) The finish on all three was excellent and certainly up with the Gibson 335's on offer. It looks as though they actually put more care and attention on the Dot Studios than the more expensive Dots.

 

Set up was pretty much bang on out of the box (the nut was a touch tight but a quick run through with short length of wound G string and some pencil lead cured that!)

 

Intonation on the G need sorting (wasn't too far off but needed tweaking)

 

For the price (£148.00 new - life was wonderful with a strong pound and a £1=$2 excahnge rate) there was nothing on sale which could touch it.

 

Downside - stock pups were absolutely s**t.

[JefferySmith]

My Chinese Riviera is fine, but I don't think it has the finish and wood of my Korean Dot, Sheraton, or AlleyKat. I would compare it to my (donated to my church) Ibanez Artcore. And as one gent mentioned, there seems to be little wood grain on these Chinese guitars. Are we sure that the top is maple?

[mud guy]

New to forum, and epiphone. Bought an 08 dot cherry about a month ago...I had tried a few out at one store, then went to a sale at another store. They had no dots on display, but had one in a box in the warehouse. Out of the box, neck pup tone knob was loose. I said I was interested in trying it out, the tech spent 5 minutes on setup, and 20 minutes later I walked out of the store with the guitar. Zero complaints, tweaked it a bit at home (intonation and action, new strings). No flaws on the finish. I can't stop playing it. I've looked at other epi semis since then in store and notice there is a lot of slop on some guitars, especially with the wiring inside, so I guess the trick is to look around if you can. Anyway, happy with purchase.

[twangster007]

Recently I wanted a 335 type of guitar. My first choice was a Sheriton or a Dot. I played both, I was a bit disapointed. The quality compared to my Peerless Es-295 was horrible. Then I tried out a Washburn HB-35, It was used so I got a great price just about 200, It felt better than the modern Epiphones, It alos seemed a bit more sturdy.

 

I would say if you have to order online. I would go witha Washburn HB 35 or HB 30.

[Lord Summerisle]

Recently I wanted a 335 type of guitar. My first choice was a Sheriton or a Dot. I played both' date=' I was a bit disapointed. The quality compared to my Peerless Es-295 was horrible. Then I tried out a Washburn HB-35, It was used so I got a great price just about 200, It felt better than the modern Epiphones, It alos seemed a bit more sturdy.

 

I would say if you have to order online. I would go witha Washburn HB 35 or HB 30. [/quote']

 

Good call. I almost bought an HB35, they are great guitars.

 

They look especially sweet in wine-red.

 

 

Cheap, too - $569 including HSC from World Music Supply: http://www.worldmusicsupply.com/washburn-hollowbody-guitars.html

 

If my Hagstrom ever starts to feel lonely...

[alexanj]

I ordered a Dot from Thomann back in 2005. A Chinese one was sent, which had a not very nice bit of wood for the top, an almost bright red finish and 3 of the knobs and the E on the pickguard fell off. I sent it back and asked for a Korean one and was sent one, which had been made in the Peerless factory. It was MILES better, nicer wood, better finished (better finished than my Gibsons have been) and generally a better guitar overall. I have tried a few Chinese Epiphones and they're fairly inconsistent, presumably because they are making them in however many factories.

 

The Peerless brand guitars are fantastic as well.

[aminaziz92]

surpise-surprise for the chinese owners

http://www.epiphone.com/news.asp?NewsID=1473

 

after reading the article ,i don't know who to believe.