"Inspired by" vs Elitist Casino

[Pumpkinhead]

Hello everyone.

 

I'm seriously considering buying myself a Casino. I've no real experience of them but today I got to play a natural finish "Inspired by John Lennon" Casino and I was pretty impressed.

 

The positives were:

-It sounded great and the pots worked well - you could roll back the volumes without losing too much treble.

-It looked great(ish) and the matt finish felt very warm and tactile. I could imagine it feeling better still as starts to wear and smooth up a bit.

-As I prefer a chunkier neck, I was worried having read about skinny Casino necks. However this one felt nice to me with more of a medium profile.

 

The (few) negatives were:

-I hated the thick black paint inside the F-holes - almost seemed to be trying to hide the laminations (are they trying to hide something?). It was sloppily applied too, with some small stains getting onto the top.

-The tuning was unstable - though I suspect this was down to the newness of the guitar, the strings and possibly a less than optimum cut nut rather than any more serious problems (the tuners seemed to work well and felt great).

 

 

However, here's the rub. I could just afford an Elitist BUT I'd have to buy sight unseen as I've found none locally. In the UK, the Elitist costs 43% more than the "Inspired By". I know that there are some specification differences (gloss finish, pickguard etc.) but I think the pickups and electronics are similar, if not identical.

 

My eventual question is:

Do the more experienced Casino fans consider the considerable extra cost to be worth it?

Also:

Can anyone tell me if the neck profile is similar on the Elitist?

 

Another option might be to really push out the boat and save up extra for an ES-330 - the long neck is not really essential to me though and it would cost something like 70% more than the Elitist.

 

Finally I have read that a Peerless era Casino (or current Peerless Songbird) with a pickup swap might get me closer to the Elitist for less cash. Obviously this would involve me paying for the pickups and a tech to do the swap for me so it's not my first choice.

 

Some background:

Hopefully I'm not snobby about guitars. I'm lucky enough to have some US-made instruments (Gibson, Fender, PRS) but I'm also a big fan of Japanese guitars (my "335" is a Tokai ES120 and I have a Fender era Gretsch Jet Firebird and 80s Tokai Tele). I also had my eyes opened about how good the Chinese production is becoming when I picked up a Squier Classic Vibe 50s Strat last year. It's fantastically finished, very light and sounds great - I'm ashamed to say that I currently prefer it to my 1980s Strat plus.

 

I suppose I've always wanted a Casino because they seem to do so much, so well. The retro, jangly power-pop (Teenage Fanclub anyone?) sounds are great but I like the idea of also being able to get a Grant Green vibe (I know he played an ES330 but they must sound very close?).

 

Anyway sorry for such a long post so early on. If you've stuck with it so far, thanks.

 

Cheers

Brendan

[frenchie1281734003]

Hi Brendan,

 

I have played quite a few Casino`s and 330`s over the years, have owned three Matsumoku made Casino`s, and currently have a John Lennon 65 reissue, so I may be qualified to answer your questions. Two weeks ago I was in Dawson`s (Chester) where I actually purchased an IB 64 Texan, whilst there I tried out their IB Revolution Casino, and was very impressed. I think the new "Inspired by" guitars both Casino & Texan, are Epiphones attempt at a Chinese Elitist series, as for the Casino, I was impressed with the look, the feel, and the craftsmanship of the guitar, the sounds were in the right ballpark too. The specs are very good, with the one piece neck, plus heel extention, just like the Elitist`s. The body shape is the correct mid 60`s outline, and the neck joins the body at the correct 16th fret (Unlike the Korean ones). The matt finish feels like the "Revolution" Casino, but on the one I tried, the Maple did look a little too pale, but that`s just me. All the controls worked well, and the pickups sound like the real deal, although I think this version of the Casino feeds back sooner than my old Matsumoku`s did (But so does the Lennon too). The neck on the IB feels better than on my Lennon 65( More substance), and infact the IB Texan has the very same profile, I think Epiphone call it their slim taper profile. As for the the black edges to the F/holes, I too don`t like that look, and would probably sand back to bare wood, if I owned the guitar, incidently I checked out a couple of Gibson high end 335 types whilst there, and they too have the black edging, and not done too well either. So all in all I was dead impressed, and maybe getting one myself soon.

 

PS Check out Feb 2010 issue of Guitarist Magazine, they do a full review of it, and were also very impressed.

 

Steve.

[jonny_2_owls]

Hi there,

 

I have recently got an Elitist Casino and I think it is a really great guitar. I had one back in about 2005 which was also a beautiful guitar, like a fool I sold it so when I got chance of the new one I jumped at it. I got it from Coda-Music, took a chance on getting it unseen and it was perfect. The had a deal where they could knock 12.5% off the price so I got it for about £870. they still show as instock on their website too.

 

It has quite a thin neck and I have large hands but it's still O.K. for me. The build quality is awesome and the sunburst finish is spot on, if maybe a tad too orange in the middle, maybe that's just me though. It nails the Beatles tone too.

 

I've never played one of the IBJL Casinos ut a local shop had a couple in, the sunburst and "revolution" model. They looked great but I didn't get chance to plug one in. I really liked the feel of the stripped one though, I got the feeling it would've been even better after a few years of playing in.

 

As for 330's, I personally don't think Gibson are worth the extra ££'s. I had a ES-339 which I sold after a few months because I didn't play it enough, it lost out to my '84 Japanese Epi Riviera! And if I'm brutally honest with myself my '06 Hummingbird wasn't that great a guitar. So I can't imagine a 330 would be £700-800 better than my Elitist Casino, I could be wrong though. I'd love to try one and be proved wrong, I eyed up a cherry one and it looked stunning!

 

I've had 3 early 80's Japanese Casinos in the past which felt and sounded fantastic, sold them too. Don't really know why??

 

Not sure whether I've been any help...

[Pumpkinhead]

Thank you both for the responses - very helpful.

 

Steve - I played the IBJL "Revolution" at Dawsons in Warrington. I read the positive review in Guitarist Magazine but just wanted to hear what some real players thought.

I do like the neck and I'm now a bit worried that the Elitist will feel very slim by comparison and I agree that the maple was possibly a bit pale and featureless. They had the gloss/sunburst model in the shop as well but I didn't get time to try it out as my wife had already tracked me down by this stage!

 

Jonny - your post was very helpful. £870 was a very good deal for the Elitist - it's a pity that the 12.5% offer has long expired! I know what you mean about the Gibson thing but I do really like the 2 historic LPs I own. By any rational sense they were probably not worth what I paid for them but they both sound cracking! My '56 Goldtop is what got me into thinking about getting another P90 guitar but in a semi/hollow format. Initially my interest in the Casino was pretty much as something that could get the ES-330 tone but a lot cheaper (probably a bad confession here ). I was surprised by how utterly different the P90s sound in the Casino - they're not as "crisp and honky" as in the LP. Whether that's more due to construction or the pickups are also voiced very differently, I don't know. It certainly seemed a lot bassier and "woofier".

 

I think the ES330 thing has a probably got a lot to do with me listening to a lot of

recently. His main squeeze is a stunning vintage cherry ES330 with Bigsby. I love that slightly thin, skronky sound he uses - maybe the pickups are out-of-phase or something? Certainly the Casino didn't really do that hollowed out vibe quite as well.

 

Anyway, thanks again for your input. I need to keep thinking about it I suppose.

[Pumpkinhead]

Quick update. Decided to "go for broke" and ordered a new ES-330 last week. I was pushing my finances to the limit (I'd be paying it off into the summer) but thought it was worth it for a dream Gibson guitar. BIG MISTAKE!

 

It arrived with a loose bit of wood rattling about inside - part of the main brace running under the centre of the top I think. Probably not a major structural defect, just shoddy finishing. Tuned it up and there was a lot of fret buzz on all strings. The tune-o-matic posts were leaning slightly in the direction of the tailpiece. I suppose this could be straighted out but I was also worried that the saddles were way back in their adjustment range (nothing more than 1/2 way forward) meaning that if the posts were straightened, bringing the bridge forward, the G-string might not intonate properly.

 

I raised the action by a mm or so. There was still some buzzing on the D & G but any higher and it would have been difficult to play. Noticed that the pots were crackly, the neck tone particularly so.

 

So there we go. A brand new Gibson and it was a massive disappointment. What's more of a shame is that it looked and sounded very nice - just let down by some poor QC.

 

I got a refund and I'm back to square one.

[TP]

Sorry about the Gibson experiance you had....

 

You had asked earlier about the Peerless Casinos. I have a 1996 Peerless built regular Casino. For a little background, I have been an acoustic player for over 30 years and only started getting into playing electric a couple years ago. I have very actively traded gear during that 2-3 year span looking for what felt best and sounded best to me. I have tried everything from MIM Strats, to USA strats, to an Eric Clapton Sig Strat, to some different Ibanez type shredder guitars with floyd roses and such, even had a couple of Les Paul style guitars in the collection for a short while.

 

I can honestly say, none of the electrics I have owned in the past made me as happy as my Casino. It just feels right and sounds awesome for the most part. I am in the process currently of getting some bids to replace all the wiring, pots and switch due to the fact that they seem to be the cheap components on my guitar. I love the P90's that came stock. I am thinking when all of the upgraded parts get put in, the pickups will probably sound even better to me.

 

Anyway, my point is, you can save a ton of money, get a Stock Peerless built Casino, make a few swaps for your preferences and wind up with a killer hollow body guitar that would rival an Elitist or Inspired by Casino.

[1967texan]

I bought a Casino elitist sight unseen from Sweetwater ealier this year. What a fantastic guitar. All of my mates I jam with want one. The neck on this guitar is unbelievable, plays like butter. The moment i took it out of the case I knew it was a keeper. You can get some lovely sounds out of them. The P90's have some bite. Absolutely love this guitar.

 

I tried the chinese casino's in my local store and thought they were poorly finished, especially the neck. They just don't feel good to me. I wouldn't buy one. Generally you get what you pay for.

 

Yamagamma

[Larry1281734007]

I recentley got an Elitist Casino from Sweetwater, and it's a beautifully finished guitar. I had some rservations about ordering sight unseen, but other than a bit of a wait till it came in, there were no problems. The fit and finish are flawless, and the set up was good. I don't know about the IBJL Casnos, but I do also own a 1997 Peerless Casino and used to own an original single pick up Kalamazoo one, and the Elitist is the nicest by far. I've been playing the Peerless and the Elitist side by side and find the Elitist sounds better plugged or unplugged. I sympathize with you about your Gibson purchase. I had an ES135 for a while, but had to replace the switch early on, and overall it wasn't finished as nicely as the Casino. Good luck what ever you decide.

[Vic Flick]

Hello everyone.

 

I'm seriously considering buying myself a Casino. I've no real experience of them but today I got to play a natural finish "Inspired by John Lennon" Casino and I was pretty impressed.

 

The positives were:

-It sounded great and the pots worked well - you could roll back the volumes without losing too much treble.

-It looked great(ish) and the matt finish felt very warm and tactile. I could imagine it feeling better still as starts to wear and smooth up a bit.

-As I prefer a chunkier neck' date=' I was worried having read about skinny Casino necks. However this one felt nice to me with more of a medium profile.

 

The (few) negatives were:

-I hated the thick black paint inside the F-holes - almost seemed to be trying to hide the laminations (are they trying to hide something?). It was sloppily applied too, with some small stains getting onto the top.

-The tuning was unstable - though I suspect this was down to the newness of the guitar, the strings and possibly a less than optimum cut nut rather than any more serious problems (the tuners seemed to work well and felt great).

 

 

However, here's the rub. I could just afford an Elitist BUT I'd have to buy sight unseen as I've found none locally. In the UK, the Elitist costs 43% more than the "Inspired By". I know that there are some specification differences (gloss finish, pickguard etc.) but I think the pickups and electronics are similar, if not identical.

 

My eventual question is:

Do the more experienced Casino fans consider the considerable extra cost to be worth it?

Also:

Can anyone tell me if the neck profile is similar on the Elitist?

 

Another option might be to really push out the boat and save up extra for an ES-330 - the long neck is not really essential to me though and it would cost something like 70% more than the Elitist.

 

Finally I have read that a Peerless era Casino (or current Peerless Songbird) with a pickup swap might get me closer to the Elitist for less cash. Obviously this would involve me paying for the pickups and a tech to do the swap for me so it's not my first choice.

 

Some background:

Hopefully I'm not snobby about guitars. I'm lucky enough to have some US-made instruments (Gibson, Fender, PRS) but I'm also a big fan of Japanese guitars (my "335" is a Tokai ES120 and I have a Fender era Gretsch Jet Firebird and 80s Tokai Tele). I also had my eyes opened about how good the Chinese production is becoming when I picked up a Squier Classic Vibe 50s Strat last year. It's fantastically finished, very light and sounds great - I'm ashamed to say that I currently prefer it to my 1980s Strat plus.

 

I suppose I've always wanted a Casino because they seem to do so much, so well. The retro, jangly power-pop (Teenage Fanclub anyone?) sounds are great but I like the idea of also being able to get a Grant Green vibe (I know he played an ES330 but they must sound very close?).

 

Anyway sorry for such a long post so early on. If you've stuck with it so far, thanks.

 

Cheers

Brendan

 

I've owed 2 vintage ES-330s, a Lennon Revolution, 2 Peerless MIK, 2 early '80s Matsumoku Casinos and an Elitist:

 

Elitist - Lennon - Matsumoku- 1968 Gibson ES-330

 

My choice would be the Elitist. As good as the Lennons/330s at a fraction of the cost. Upgrading a Peerless will not get you to Elitist quality, the construction is entirely different. It will never resonate like the Elitist, and that does translate into a different electric sound even with the same pickups. I haven't tried the inspired, but I have heard good things about them and I believe the construction is like the Elitist/Lennon/330.

[Pumpkinhead]

Thanks for the extra information everyone.

Sounds like the Elitist might be worth trying.

 

I'm completely undecided as to whether to go for the natural or the sunburst finish though. I like the way that the Casino 'burst follows the edge of the guitar, even around the "horns" but I think the dark-light transition is a bit sudden. On the other hand I'm a big fan of the natural finish (my Tokai ES120 is this color) but I suppose I just think "Lennon" all the time when I see a natural Casino! This is not a bad thing but I like plenty of other Casino players too.

 

I wish the Casinos were available in a faded-burst finish, in the same way as you can get iced-tea/washed-cherry/honeyburst variants on the Les Pauls.

 

This is the sort of thing I mean:

 

 

The last one shows Raymond McGinley of Scottish band, Teenage Fanclub. I think that seeing him playing that guitar at a few gigs started my Casino lust. That, and realising that the Casino was essentially the same thing as a "short neck" ES330 and therefore not a million miles from the guitar used by my favourite jazzer, Grant Green.

 

Thanks for the comments

Brendan

[hellopain]

Pumpkinhead, i bought an '06 MIK Casino in Hong Kong and i see what you mean with the (sloppy/gross/stupid) black f-hole paint:

 

 

it bothered the heck out of me so i had it stripped:

 

 

well, it still bugged me, so i had them binded:

 

 

well, it still does but not that much anymore. the most important thing is that she plays be now.

 

 

 

DAMN YOU EPIPHONE FOR RUINING A BEAUTIFUL GUITAR!!!

[JefferySmith]

I have the Elitist and cannot say a single negative thing about it.

[brianh]

Pumkinhead, I'm probably less qualified than anyone above to respond to your concerns, but I do have an IBJL Casino, and after some initial concerns, I'm pretty happy with it. Actually very happy.

 

I paid <$800 USD for it and with the USA pickups and electronics and a minor bit of tweaking, it's all that and then some. I also have a MIC Riv P93, an MIK stock Riv, and an MIK Sheri II, and no plans to let any of them go anytime soon. I have a standing offer from a friend to buy the IBJL, so not worried about unloading it if I decide to (unlikely).

 

Here's a link to my *****fest about the IBJL:

 

http://forums.epiphone.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12932

 

This cross-reference might also be useful:

 

http://forums.epiphone.com/default.aspx?g=search#4|5

[teegar]

I'm with Jerrymac, if you can reasonably go Elitist, go. I've NEVER heard of someone who was disappointed with their Elitist, as others have been with various other models. I think Elitists are more likely to hold value than e.g. IBJLs. But you'll never want to sell it. They're just great guitars, and given that Casinos are the last of the Elitist line left in production, may not be around for too long.

[ampaudi]

I too recently bought an Elitist unseen after a six month wait, and it was worth every minute of waiting. I did play one or two IBJL's and they were superb, but the Elitist blew me away when it came in. The neck really does play like butter, and its the perfect guitar. Especially, as its been said, that the Casino is the last in the Elitist line, if you can go Elitist!!

Good luck!

[Dennis G]

I'm with Jerrymac' date=' if you can reasonably go Elitist, go. I've NEVER heard of someone who was disappointed with their Elitist, as others have been with various other models. I think Elitists are more likely to hold value than e.g. IBJLs. But you'll never want to sell it. They're just great guitars, and given that Casinos are the last of the Elitist line left in production, may not be around for too long.[/quote']

 

The Elitist is on my list of the last 3 guitars I'll ever buy (3?...yeah, right! ). My Sweetwater rep has a standing order from me that if he ever hears that Epi is going to quit making them, GET ME ONE!!!! That said, I've been watching their site and they do have 4 naturals in stock and the burst(s) are due any day. I may just have to grab one to quell the impending anxiety of it being dq'd LOL. My Dot is a natural, and while I'm not a huge fan of the burst finish, it would make it the only one I own, adding to it's "uniqueness". To me, this is just an iconic guitar and while it may never appreciate in value over time, at least ya got one!

[Manimal]

Oh my lord man, I've played a few of the Elitist Casino's, and jeez I wish I had the dough to pull the trigger!!! I have an Elitist Goldtop LP which has since ruined all other guitars for me, and these Casino's would do the same for me for the semi/hollow guitars. As others here have said, the necks are to die for, the guitars are just more solidly made, the playability is insane, and the fit and finish is insane!!!

Absolutely, the Elitist!!!!

[Pumpkinhead]

Thanks for all the interesting thoughts folks.

Those bound F-holes look very nice on Hellopain's guitar. On the IBJL I tried, it wasn't the black f-hole paint I objected to per-se, just the sloppy application of it - some seemed to have run into a surface crack on the top, the rest of the edge looked pretty messy. That said, on a natural coloured guitar, the contrast of the black seems to jump out even more and draw attention to it.

I'm sure that the Elitist necks are nice, just that I prefer a chunkier profile. I was playing my Gibson '56 LP reissue last night and that thing is a beast! I'm not saying that I'd like an Elitist with that sort of neck but something close to the IBJL's medium-ish profile would be nicer to me than the super-slim taper version that I suspect is on the Elitist.

[wicksy5508]

Yep' date=' I agree.......[biggrin']

 

Are you speechless ?

 

Welcome here!

 

Peter

 

 

Whoops sorry for the missed post! Hello Everyone.

 

My post was supposed to say: -

 

I bought a Chinese Casino a few weeks ago, I fell in love with the hollowbody, and went to coda music to buy an elitist they had in stock. I ended up buying Yamaha SA2200 after some encouragement from a mate! Got home realised I had made a mistake, rang coda who said "bring it back and take the Casino" so top marks to them.

 

Got the Casino home and I have to admit it is beautuful, F-holes finished nicely so you can see the laminate, and nicely glossed too.

 

As i have both guitars here until tomorrow, can i take any pictures for you or any measurements?

[wicksy5508]

Some Pictures for you

 

Elitist F-hole

 

 

Casino F-hole

 

 

Elitist Nut

 

 

Casino Nut

 

 

Elitist Bridge

 

 

Casino Bridge

 

 

Side By Side

 

[Pumpkinhead]

Thanks for that Wicksy.

Funny but I used to have a Yamaha SA2100 (precursor of the 2200) and I could never quite bond with it. It was very well put together but the stock pickups were too high-output for my tastes. In addition it was quite heavy and felt "overbuilt" to me, almost like a jumbo, luxury Les Paul, rather than a 335 type guitar. I now have a Tokai ES120 that I'm much happier with.

The Elitist looks a little wider at the nut - around 43.5mm as opposed to 42.5, which is a good thing. However the neck looks a bit slimmer, which is not. Still, It's almost to compare from photos though. Neck profiles seem to be about the shape and feel as much as the actual dimensions. One good thing about the Casino, compared to ES335s and the ES330 reissue I've tried, is that the slightly shorter length of neck proud of the body seems to result in a stiffer neck for the same approximate profile.

[wicksy5508]

I played both guitars with my eyes shut tonight with the Mrs passing me the guitars, to be honest I can't feel much if any difference between the two necks. The Elitist seems to be a bit smoother and faster is that makes sense, but other than that they seem pretty similar.

 

I too couldn't bond with it, I just never felt the urge to play it

[EPIDEN]

I bought a new Casino today...

 

I spent the morning into the lunch hour today comparing both the '65 Casino Elitist in natural and the IB Lennon Revolution (IBL) Casino.

 

First impressions visually: Both guitars look great with the Natural finish. The wood on the neck in the pocket is unfinished on the IBL, and stained on the Elitist. While I like the look of both the Gloss on the Elitist as well satin on the IBL. The issue of the black in the F-hole was not an issue at all on the IBL I had to test. As a matter of fact, it accented the look quite well. The fretboards of both were equally nice, both nuts were properly cut and both had their Frets dressed nicely.

 

Weight: Neither guitar seemed noticeably heavier than the other.

 

Feel: The Satin of the IBL felt very nice, more natural than the gloss, especially on the neck when really getting down to playng. I also agree with other prior comments the neck profile on the IBL was comfortable to play. I've never really put much thought about the difference between the finishes until today. I have to say, I think I prefer the Satin, but that doesn't mean it would be a deciding factor. Of course we could get into a discussion of tonal qualities between sati and gloss, care and durability.

 

Frets are well dressed on each, no issues whatsoever with either guitar.

 

Set-up. The action on both guitars were quite playable - no adjustments needed that I felt were necessary. The action on the Elitist may have been slightly lower. Neither guitar had any buzzing anywhere up or down the neck, so high marks to both.

 

Playing unplugged. The Elitist clearly had the edge for being more resonant, but both guitars sustained well acoustically.

 

Plugged in: Both guitars sounded awesome. I played through several different amps clean and distorted. These include an Orange Thunderverb 50W, Fender Deluxe, and VOX AC30. To my ears and a few other people in the store who shared their opinion found the IBL's pickups were right up to task with the Elitist pickups - both sounded great. The IBL pups sounded a bit hotter for some reason. I even plugged in a Gibson ES-335 and found both Epi's sounded great in comparison.

 

Can you guess which one I purchased?

[charlie brown]

I'm sure either one, would be to your liking. The USA "Lennon" version, color wise, is more like his is now...or when

they took the photos, and specs. But, when he was playing it, it was pretty pale, in color...

 

 

So, the Inspired By JL (Revolution) version (the ones that I've seen, anyway)...aren't that far off...IMHO.

The Elitist versions are great gutiars, in their own right. But, of course, the "natural" will be "glossy," if

that's any consideration?

 

CB

[Pumpkinhead]

Can you guess which one I purchased?

You make a compelling case for both of them!

 

Just for the heck of it' date=' I'm going to guess at the IBJL...

 

Whatever you chose, thanks for the detailed comparison. It's interesting that the P90s sound a bit hotter in the IBJL as I thought that they were supposed to be the same as the ones on the Elitist. I'd have guessed that it might be the stripped back finish being more resonant if it wasn't for the fact that you found the Elitist to be louder unplugged!

 

So, the Inspired By JL (Revolution) version (the ones that I've seen, anyway)...aren't that far off...IMHO.

The Elitist versions are great gutiars, in their own right. But, of course, the "natural" will be "glossy," if

that's any consideration?

In my humble opinion, the fact that the Elitist has a slightly different look from the one used by that famous gentleman from the well known beat combo is a major plus!

I like the idea of the Casino as something that does a decent jazz/blues box sound (given that the short-neck ES330s now cost a fortune over here) but will also do a nice chiming/crunchy rock thing a-la Paul Weller et al. The Beatles connection is nice, but not really why I'm after a hollowbody with P90s.