Inspection

[Rockakenny]

Greetings Fellow Members,

My name is Kenny. I'm new here. I've got a white 1990 Sheraton that plays like butter. I've got some quality concerns with some of the Epis at stores I've visited. I was at the Arlington Heights GC outside of Chicago on saturday. I was playing some of the Epis there. Each had inspection/setup stickers visible. These have always been a reassuring factor when viewing and demoing an instrument made overseas. On a natural Dot or Sheraton I was looking at I noticed the area where the neck is glued to the body was lacking finish. The back of the neck was not quite flush with the back of the body either. I could see a slight gap where they werent quite joined together properly. I've also noticed somewhat dry fingerboards on many of the Epis I've looked at and played. I'm wanting to know how some of these guitars are passing the multi-point process of inspection here in the states. I do realize they aren't selling for thousands of dollars, but, there appear to be some basic quality issues that are being overlooked. The full hollowbodies that I've played don't exhibit these concerns however. I've always been proud of the price/performance offered by Epiphone and being a teacher, have mentioned that to students too, even though some of them have had quality issues with their Epis after purchase.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Kenny

[TWANG]

Consistency is not perfection.

Advertising ignores that.

 

Inspectors .. well. they are people.

sometimes the guy next to them on the line has gas, all day long. and they miss a thing or two.

sometimes they are going to get married tomorrow and this is the last day they have to work at this crummy job!

sometimes they just make a mistake because they are doing the same thing all day long.

 

sometimes they have trouble on the line. parts dont' come in. things have to be set aside.. paint isn't mixed properly, new guys are training, the line foreman is a jerk more worried about what his superior says about production numbers than quality, sometimes the line foremans boss is a jerk,

sometimes...a guy gets ticked at his job and just doesn't give a damn.

 

Ever work in a factory? I have.

That's pretty much daily stuff everywhere I ever worked.

 

Usually, you will see a new model, or some other change.. new factory!, put out a few blems and seconds.. epi has been noted for doing this.. for not just selling them all off but marking them 2nds... until the production gets really swinging.

 

I remember

DER KOMMANDANT

worked building pots years ago when I first met her.. and they produced like 10,000 pots.. ALL wrong. Someone got the specs off..

and they shipped them because if they met the deadline they got paid even if nothing was right.

so they shipped them, then got them all back, but didn't lose the contract.

 

Aint business funny?~!

[smips65]

 

Welcome here Kenny-

 

Inspection stickers should not give one a sense of comfort. They are not looking for the things a player is looking for.

I think in general they're looking for finish issues.

 

Personally I've never seen the inside of a guitar factory, so I'm no expert as far as what Inspectors are supposed to look for.

 

But a fellow I know is starting his own distribution of China made instruments, and inspection isn't done there, rather they are slapped into boxes and shipped via boats, and undergo all sorts of bad weather, bad crane operators, and trucking is a roll of the dice. Most of his inventory had some sort of issue, snapped headstocks, bad electronics, knobs that fell off, dead batteries, and of course really crappy strings.

 

Midi works at a GC, maybe he can shine some light on the receiving end of the chain, and what they do as far as set-up, and store inspection.

 

Unfortunate as it may sound, the old adage of buyer beware, and now, buyer be prepared to make small repairs, and adjustments is coming to be the norm.

[charlie brown]

Well....hopefully, the store you saw all this in, will take those very guitars,

and RETURN them, to Gibson/Epi, for replacements. One reason I never

buy New guitars, at the big box stores, is due to those kinds of issues.

I (frankly) can't believe they even put them out, for sale, in the first place.

Looks bad, for them...and the guitar maker, as well. But, we keep hearing

this, over and over. My dealer inspects all the guitars, they get, and return

All, that are sub-standard, in any way. Being a Gibson dealer, they may have

to have a certain quota, but...they will not accept blemished, damaged, or

incomplete guitars...and neither should any other dealer, large or small....IMHO.

 

CB

[brianh]

Unfortunately this is a complaint that seems to be more prevalent now than it was even a year ago. Some of it may be due to the transition to the new Chinese factories, some to the inherent complexity of building guitars, and some to rushing to fill orders, and of course poor QC.

 

I have a little sympathy for manufacturers trying to sell into the extremely competetive low end of the market, but not enough to spend my hard-earned $$$ when I can get a better built product elsewhere. I do have two Chinese Epiphones that I'm reasonably happy with, so not everything coming out of the PRC is junk.

 

Like Peter, I vote with my wallet.

[Digger]

A couple of years ago I went to the retail arm of our Australian distributor AMI here in Melbourne. I wanted to buy a Dot for my birthday, well it was my family buying it actually, I was just picking it out.

 

I should mention that I live in the country and it is a 4 hour drive each way to this retail location but I wanted to ensure that I had a good choice so the trip was necessary.

 

I looked at 4 examples of Dots on display there and they were ALL faulty! 3 had loose output jacks and one had a very obviously crooked neck. I pointed this out to the attendant and he couldn't have cared less!

 

I then started to look at Casinos, couldn't afford the extra $300 but having travelled this far and with the family wanting me to buy a guitar, what choice did I have? One of the Casinos also had a loose jack but I found one that to my (inexperienced eyes) looked alright and I bought it. $980 got me a guitar, no box, no Allen key, instructions, guarantee document...nothing! In fact I had to buy a gig bag to get it home.

 

Now if this is the commitment that a dedicated Epiphone/Gibson outlet demonstrates to the product then I think it's a bloody shame. I don't blame Epi for this, it's a poor attitude from the dealer in my view. The stock I saw had obviously been picked over and the faulty stuff left. Why didn't the dealer rectify these problems on the floor is the question. Just couldn't give a stuff is the answer as I see it!

 

Unfortunately each of the 3 Epiphone guitars I have ended up all being faulty inc the Casino which had 3 frets lift and have to be reseated. The selector switch has also crapped out and I haven't bothered fixing it. Conversely my Agile AL2900 which is a better guitar and a lot cheaper, arrived with everything just as it should be apart from needing the PUPS lowered a bit as they were a bit hot.

 

I didn't take the Casino back for warranty as frankly I don't trust them. It was cheaper to pay for a luthier to do the repair anyway given the distances involved.

 

If the dealer had done his job properly I wouldn't have this negative feeling about Epi guitars and I might add that I have bought 4 other guitars after the Casino, none of them Epiphone!

 

I know I've told this story before so sorry if I'm repeating myself. I just keep hoping that management will read it and take a closer look at their distribution in Oz.

 

Digger

[Albannach]

Having worked in Asia for over 4 years as an equipment vendor, I know what Chinese factory employment standards are like. You cannot compare Chinese guitar factory workers to those of the US and Europe, most of these guys & girls would never have seen a guitar before let alone played one so when they are recruited they are given one or two fixed tasks and that is all they do. If they don't have a feeling for guitars then you will get ROM quality.

 

Final quality checks in those factories are basic indeed, as long as it looks like the one in the photograph they have pinned to the bench then that will do. Real quality cost money, that is why so many are made in Asia now as costs compared to US & European workforces are minimal ( eg - a university graduate chemical engineer working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day in Doumen received, at the time I was there, less than $200 a month) so these people are not going to be bothered if one goes out the door with a 5 degree axis shift in the neck or 4 PUs instead of 1.

 

You get what you pay for and if your supplier pays peanuts then you get monkeys, and we all know that monkeys can't make guitars.

 

Most of the forgeries that you will see for sale emanate from the same factory that make the 'real' thing as does the likes of North Face clothing and appears on the local and open market as 'genuine'.

 

Caveat Emptor.

[Rockakenny]

I value your constructive replies. As a mere reader, this forum always exhibited a maturity that I liked. I very much appreciate this discussion and thank all who've contributed thus far. Many thanks for the welcomes.

 

I either set up or have pro setups done on my guitars, so, I do take into account that if I were to own one of the newer Epis, it'd play way better than at the store. My Sheraton is somewhat beat up, but, it's a rock. Even when the setup is subpar, it just has that inviting playability that's tough to define. The only thing I would have different is the neck a tad thicker.

 

I suppose I'm suffering from shock at the state of things these days. I viewed the pre-retailer U.S. Inspection/Set-Up video (not sure where)and their system seemed rock solid. If I remember correctly, they even mentioned sending sub-par units back to the factory. I always saw Epi to be the "value professional" of all the imports, and carried a certain pride with it, though I've been very impressed with Gretsch's value offerings (and have a pro jet). Maybe it's because of the Epi-Gibson connection. Of course, Gibson's quality has also come into question in recent years.

 

I'm not a wealthy collector, so, I certainly vote with my wallet. That's an important concept in a capitalist marketplace and it show's that maturity here that I spoke of earlier.

[midiman56]

Midi works at a GC' date=' maybe he can shine some light on the receiving end of the chain, and what they do as far as set-up, and store inspection.

 

[/quote']

 

Yeah ... I can actually:

 

We take it out of the carton, tune it (maybe) and hang it on the wall! After it's been abused for a couple of weeks by jack-weeds that never buy anything and has had the knobs and switch-tip stolen, I end up calling Gibson for replacement parts. When they show up, we try to salvage what's left of the poor thing.

 

Now you know why all of the expensive guitars are hanging from the very top row near the ceiling. My piece of advice, find out from your local store what their delivery days are. If you want to buy a guitar, show up on THAT day before any of the "customers" can screw things up worse that they were when they came from the factory!

 

Sorry ... it's been a long Memorial Day Weekend Sale. I hate retail, I hate self-appointed guitar experts, I hate people that want to "wheel and deal" the cost of a pack of friggin' picks, and I (almost) hate guitars!

 

Jim

[charlie brown]

Yeah ... I can actually:

 

We take it out of the carton' date=' tune it (maybe) and hang it on the wall! After it's been abused for a couple of weeks by jack-weeds that never buy anything and has had the knobs and switch-tip stolen, I end up calling Gibson for replacement parts. When they show up, we try to salvage what's left of the poor thing.

 

Now you know why all of the expensive guitars are hanging from the very top row near the ceiling. My piece of advice, find out from your local store what their delivery days are. If you want to buy a guitar, show up on THAT day before any of the "customers" can screw things up worse that they were when they came from the factory!

 

Sorry ... it's been a long Memorial Day Weekend Sale. [b']I hate retail, I hate self-appointed guitar experts, I hate people that want to "wheel and deal" the cost of a pack of friggin' picks, and I (almost) hate guitars![/b]

Jim

 

 

LOL...Man, have I been THERE! More often, than I care to remember, too.

Hang in there, Jim...it'll settle back down. The Retail public CAN sure be the

"sh..s," at times, huh?

 

Cheers,

CB

[tpurgatoryt]

I live in australia, and the guitar shop i allways goto is allans, honestly its great shop, although the staff can some times be jerks, but they can be nice too

i will admit i spend quite a bit of time in the Squier/Fender and Epiphone/Gibson sections.

and i do infact look at every guitar i walk past that catched me eye, and i must say i have never ever seen a thing wrong with the guitars finishes, weither there epi/gib or squier/fend, i mean every now and then knobs will be missing cause the idiot before you is to cheap to buy a pack for a couple of dollars, but because of that store i see epiphone as a great brand.

[eggs]

Sorry ... it's been a long Memorial Day Weekend Sale. I hate retail' date=' I hate self-appointed guitar experts, I hate people that want to "wheel and deal" the cost of a pack of friggin' picks, and I (almost) hate guitars!

 

 

Breath Jim... it's over... & the Epi-brethren know you didn't mean it!

 

Stuart

[Beatles1909]

I think for the most part retailers are the problem in general & not just music stores,

for example have you checked out any record stores, Best Buy, Futureshop etc. in the last couple of years!

thank goodness for i-tunes & sirius/xm or we wouldn't have any new music & artists to discover.

 

I'm a lefty & for the most part I have to special order guitars, I'm envious of you righty's you can try 10 guitars a day till you find one you like, we lefty's don't have tht luxury (no, I don't regret being a lefty)

 

The Epi Dot & G400 I bought in the US had 2 qc stickers on them

 

The les paul standard plus top I purchased here in Canada only had the white qc sticker funny thing is, it was packed up in the box in the back room & when we opened it the date is Mar. 2008 (where has it been sitting for the last 2 years?)

 

Of the 3, I thought the g400 was the best looking quality wise which was made in Daewon or Unsung.

The Dot (Mar 2010) & the Les Paul (Mar. 2008) were both made in Qingdao & look a little less pro finished! but still nice looking guitars for the money. & all play nice so I have been lucky so far. (maybe the lefty's are better built)

 

My point is that all of these guitars were still in the box sealed when I picked them up, therefore the retailers I purchased them from did not inspect them.. I found them to be like they were selling me a loaf of bread or something!

I sure miss the old days of mom & pop stores!