12 string SG?

[albertjohn]

I was wandering around Denmark St, London, last week and popped into Vintage and Rare. On the wall they had a 1960s SG shaped 12 Melody Maker. Never seen one before.

 

Very faded cherry with what looked like soapbar like white pickups.

 

No pic on their website.

 

Anyone come across one like this before?

[pippy]

According to Ian C. Bishop's book "The Gibson Guitar from 1950" (1977 ed.) :

 

"...All Melody Makers built after 1966 shared the same body as the SG series but utilised only the single-coil Melody Maker pickups, although all of those pickups used on the SG style guitars had white covers (and scratchplates) instead of the black covers (and scratchplates) used previously.

 

...The Melody Maker solid 12 was added to the range in 1970...The 12 string (only available with two pickups) was made in small numbers and is therefore quite rare..."

 

There is also an accompanying photo on p58 if you happen to have a copy of the book lying around!

 

Although he dates the introduction as being 1970 he has, on the odd occasion, been slightly out. This book was written before there was much known about the world of vintage guitars and some of his info must have been difficult to obtain.

 

Hope this helps somewhat.

[daveinspain]

Yes... In 1966 the Melody Makers changed to a SG shape and they did a 12 string version... If you look on ebay or gbase for 12 string melody you can usually find one... Nice guitars and usually very reasonably priced.

[albertjohn]

According to Ian C. Bishop's book "The Gibson Guitar from 1950" (1977 ed.) :

 

"...All Melody Makers built after 1966 shared the same body as the SG series but utilised only the single-coil Melody Maker pickups, although all of those pickups used on the SG style guitars had white covers (and scratchplates) instead of the black covers (and scratchplates) used previously.

 

...The Melody Maker solid 12 was added to the range in 1970...The 12 string (only available with two pickups) was made in small numbers and is therefore quite rare..."

 

There is also an accompanying photo on p58 if you happen to have a copy of the book lying around!

 

Although he dates the introduction as being 1970 he has, on the odd occasion, been slightly out. This book was written before there was much known about the world of vintage guitars and some of his info must have been difficult to obtain.

 

Hope this helps somewhat.

 

Interesting. I'm sure the label stated 1965 or 7? Can't remember.

[albertjohn]

Yes... In 1966 the Melody Makers changed to a SG shape and they did a 12 string version... If you look on ebay or gbase for 12 string melody you can usually find one... Nice guitars and usually very reasonably priced.

 

Looked a beauty. But nothing in this particular shop is reasonably priced. To be fair, there was no price quoted and I didn't ask.

[pippy]

Interesting. I'm sure the label stated 1965 or 7? Can't remember.

 

It is difficult to date instruments from this period through serial numbers.

 

From the same source I mentioned in my first post :

 

"Serial Numbers;

 

(These numbers are accurate to the nearest 10,000 or so., as production quantities varied from year to year) :

...

...

1964...

1965...365001 - 477000

1966...477001 - 600000

1967...600001 - 744000

1968...744001 - 889000

1969...889001 - 999999

 

In 1970, instead of continuing this series, they jumped to 500000. Therefore the numbers for 1970 run 500000 - 635000.

 

1971...635001 - 765000

1972...765001 - 897000

 

In 1973, the number 999999 was reached again and this time they returned to 000001 and this is the series that is in use at present (1977) therefore......."

 

 

 

As can be seen from the table above, guitars with a serial number between 500000 and 635000 exist for both the 1970 year as well as 1966/67. If Ian C. Bishop is correct (and there's no real reason to believe otherwise) the guitar is from 1970 - the year of it's introduction - and 'Vintage and Rare' have misinterpreted the number.

[Versatile]

Gordon Smith makes nice SG and LP style 12 strings.

[NeoConMan]

Here's mine;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Made in 1995.

 

I heard a rumor that there may have been as many as a dozen of these made.

Never seen another quite like this.

EDS-1275 neck set in a bizarre body to retain scale length.

 

I've seen pics of a few other Gibson Customs with more normal bodies but purpose-built 12 string necks.

 

There are a few out there, but this is the only one I've ever put my hands on.

The 60's Melody Makers were actually nowhere near the same thing - bodies were machined completely different.

And single coils in every MM I've ever seen.

[albertjohn]

Neo, your SGs and the twin neck are simply stunning.

 

I remembered from way back that you had said you'd not seen another SG12er and, with me being an SG simpleton, thought I'd struck gold! :blink:

 

The MM I saw had soapbar type single coils and had done some mileage. Lovely looking thing though. It was a shame I didn't have time to play it.

 

Learnt something again today, so thanks for that.

 

Cheers

[NeoConMan]

My pleasure.

 

[NeoConMan]

Damn Chinese copy's....................

ducking and running.............

MFer...

 

[Dub-T-123]

Neo I never really noticed how nice the grain is on that '61.

 

That is one choice slab of mahogany. Very nice man. How do you like it?

[NeoConMan]

That SG 61 is HEAVENLY!

I was never a big SG fan, always intended to buy one and never did.

Didn't like the neck on the Standard.

61 seemed too pricey.

 

After I took the plunge and ordered my double neck, my dealer got 4 of these Maestro 61's in.

Gibson made 48 of them in 2006 - that's it.

rdwivedi here on the forum got one of the others.

Single piece body (most 61's are) and yes, beautiful figuring in the grain.

 

When my double neck arrived IT was a single piece body too.

I was blown away - that's a HUGE slab of Mahogany.

Grain is filled lighter, so it's not as obvious.

 

 

 

I remembered from way back that you had said you'd not seen another SG12er and, with me being an SG simpleton, thought I'd struck gold! :blink:

AJ,

I don't know what the value of a MM-12 might be, but they were not uncommon.

Back then, there were 12-string versions of everything floating around.

Still, a nice one has to be worth something, and it's not like mine is immensely valuable.

Just rare.

 

 

On a reality note, I would guess that the MM might be much more player friendly.

In my experience with all the 12 string electrics (not that I can play worth a damn) you DON'T need humbuckers.

Too hot with any volume at all, and can sound really muddy.

I say this referring to both the SG-12 and the EDS-1275.

Some legend surrounding those guitars, but the reality is that there are some very good alternatives.

 

Rickenbacker is the Gold Standard for 12-string tone in my opinion.

I remember hearing a guy playing an Ovation roundback twelve that sounded devine - and I DON'T like Ovations.

(I've owned two, I thought they sucked - ESPECIALLY when amplified.)

The guy said he had just put new strings on his, I guess that made it a bit more shimmery - I dunno.

 

Anyhow, the best-sounding electric twelves have single coils in them in my opinion.

Even the Fender XII based on the Strat plays and sounds pretty damn good.

 

Don't cast off that MM-12 because it might not be as rare as you thought.

The price may be right, and it might be a very rewarding guitar to play.

I wouldn't mind owning one, just to help round out a set.

 

The one I've always craved is a 335 12 string.

I dunno why.

 

I love the ES series guitars anyway, but I can't play a 12 string to save my life.

[sparky scott 29]

All I'll say is .. Just simply stunning!!!

[The RandyMan]

Neo, nice, nice, very nice!

 

Never played an EDS 1275, but I've heard they're very heavy. I love that SG 12, though! I used to have a Melody Maker six string a hundred years ago (seems like it anyway) that I actually converted to twelve-string. Added six-on-a-side Grover tuners to the headstock and took a file to the nut and bridge (sacrilege, yeah, I know). I hadn't known at the time that Gibson actually made 'em with 12 strings. No matter how hard I beat the living crap out of that thing playing it, it always sounded good (or as good as I could make it sound with the way I played at the time) and I never had a problem with it. Until it was stolen in '81 . . .

I'm a twelve-string baby with fat fingers, so I play those at least as much as my six stringers. I have a '67 Martin D-12-20 for acoustic and a Fender XII for electric work. But I always wanted an SG 12. I never knew Gibson made any, other than the EDS-1275, so I made my own . . .

It plays nice, sounds nice, sustains for days (maple body and neck), and does the trick for now. But it just doesn't have the fit-n-finish of my '04 SG STD.

[NeoConMan]

Dayum!!!

That's pretty cool Randy!

 

(And guitar thieves should meet the same fate horse thieves used to...)

 

Yeah, the EDS-1275 isn't so much heavy (Les Paulish) as cumbersome.

Neck-heavy as HELL!

 

It will pull your shirt over if you use a good suede strap for grip.

No matter what, the necks are going to the ground...

[Dub-T-123]

Well I bet that '61 is pretty special because it obviously looks better than average one and if you played 4 and picked that one I'm sure you picked it for a reason.

 

Yeah 1275s are definately very neck heavy. I've played a few. They played and sounded great but they're not really my cup of tea. They're definately cool guitars though.

[duane v]

Here's mine;

 

 

 

 

 

Man that headstock makes my Epi Casino headstock look tiny

[NeoConMan]

Boat paddle.

 

[duane v]

Boat paddle.

 

 

but it has such a regal majestic look to it... my Epi Casino headstock looks like an ugly foot

[albertjohn]

AJ,

I don't know what the value of a MM-12 might be, but they were not uncommon.

Back then, there were 12-string versions of everything floating around.

Still, a nice one has to be worth something, and it's not like mine is immensely valuable.

Just rare.

 

 

On a reality note, I would guess that the MM might be much more player friendly.

In my experience with all the 12 string electrics (not that I can play worth a damn) you DON'T need humbuckers.

Too hot with any volume at all, and can sound really muddy.

I say this referring to both the SG-12 and the EDS-1275.

Some legend surrounding those guitars, but the reality is that there are some very good alternatives.

 

Rickenbacker is the Gold Standard for 12-string tone in my opinion.

I remember hearing a guy playing an Ovation roundback twelve that sounded devine - and I DON'T like Ovations.

(I've owned two, I thought they sucked - ESPECIALLY when amplified.)

The guy said he had just put new strings on his, I guess that made it a bit more shimmery - I dunno.

 

Anyhow, the best-sounding electric twelves have single coils in them in my opinion.

Even the Fender XII based on the Strat plays and sounds pretty damn good.

 

Don't cast off that MM-12 because it might not be as rare as you thought.

The price may be right, and it might be a very rewarding guitar to play.

I wouldn't mind owning one, just to help round out a set.

 

The one I've always craved is a 335 12 string.

I dunno why.

 

I love the ES series guitars anyway, but I can't play a 12 string to save my life.

 

Seen a couple of 335-12s (possibly 330-12) at the ame shop. Haven't tried them though. Even going in suited and booted, they are pretty unfriendly.

 

Never played an electric 12er but I love the sound of a Rickenbacker. The stuff I do is acoustic covers and I have a very nice Takamine MIJ 12 string which sounds great plugged and unplugged.

 

I saw Eric Clapton at Hyde Park in 2009 and he had Doyle Brammall III as his guitarist. He plays left handed but strung right handed. He played a Strat 12er flipped over (so bass strings were furthest away) tuned to open D or G with a slide. Awesome. Not something I'd seen done before.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Neo. Will take a few pics next time I visit Vintage and Rare for the rare 60s 12 strings! Not in the market for one at the moment but keen to learn more so I'll keep looking. Cheers again.

[KL]

 

Anyhow, the best-sounding electric twelves have single coils in them in my opinion.

Even the Fender XII based on the Strat plays and sounds pretty damn good.

my life.

 

 

I have seen that MM 12 in V&R on Demark Street.

Fender Electric XII's are my favourite electric XII's I just tried to upload a picture of my Olympic White one, but it says the file is too big.

[NeoConMan]

I saw Eric Clapton at Hyde Park in 2009 and he had Doyle Brammall III as his guitarist.

Check out his stuff on the one and only Arc Angels album.

Rhythm section was Chris Layton and Tommy Shannon of SRV & Double Trouble fame.

Charlie Sexton was the other guitar player.

 

Fantastic album, fantastic band, fantastic live show.

[The RandyMan]

One of the small music stores here in town had an old (late '60's or 70's, I forget) ES335 12-string hanging up on the wall. Blond finish with a lot of checking, but solid and undamaged. Looked original, but with no case. They wanted $1800 for it at the time, but it was out of my range. This was maybe two or three years ago, so I don't know if it's still there. I did manage to find a new Fender Strat XII in a different shop, though, and it was marked down to $499 because it just sat around collecting dust (there isn't a big market for twelvers around here), so I managed to scoop that one up. It was "Crafted in Japan", and it's excellent along the fit-n-finish quality lines. Makes a superb sound, but with the neck so thin width-wise and my fingers so fat, it's definitely a challenge for me to play this one. I'm thinking of going back to the other store to see if that ES335 twelve is still around . . . (even though, as I recall, the neck on that was not very wide either).

[albertjohn]

I have seen that MM 12 in V&R on Demark Street.

Fender Electric XII's are my favourite electric XII's I just tried to upload a picture of my Olympic White one, but it says the file is too big.

 

Must be all those extra machine heads!

 

I might be wrong, but wasn't there a Strat 12 there too, recently? I shall have to call in there again next week and check it out. It might have been in the shop opposite, Hanks? - the one who have a few nice old Gibson and Martin acoustics in the back section.