The state of POP music today.......

[Rambler]

I just meant that it was PRIMARILY based on looks-but otherwise,yes i agree - music has always been marketed.

 

I guess I do get a little impatient with the "blame-the-latest-technology" / "decline of civilization" meme. Its a tool. Some records got sold on image. But I dont think it was the end of music. Things have a way of coming around. Like to think so, anyhow.

[zombywoof]

Rap to me is not music but poetry (and I use the word loosely) set to a beat. Kinda a new take on the guy who looked like Manyard G. Krebs reciting some poem about the horrors of conformity while someone played the bongos behind him.

 

Gotta admit though, I actually did hold out some hope for rap when Ice T put together a hard rocking band to go on tour. .

[RASHARU]

Oh really. Take a look and listen to this

DANG!! I never knew Ga-Ga had solid talent like that. I truly am impressed. I'm just wondering why she doesn't work her more "talented" angle today instead of all the "shock & controversy" stuff.

[dem00n]

The genre has lost it's SOUL & it's ROOTS. There's no swing.

Syncopated urban white noise/black noise de-tuned angry wall of guitar synthetic hip hop pop puke.

GOD it makes me want to wretch......

Blame it on George W. Bush

 

Thankfully I have the Gibson Acoustic Forum to keep it real..or is it all an illusion?

Is this a joke?

[bkharmony]

I guess I do get a little impatient with the "blame-the-latest-technology" / "decline of civilization" meme. Its a tool. Some records got sold on image. But I dont think it was the end of music. Things have a way of coming around. Like to think so, anyhow.

 

+1

[nodehopper]

Hey Nodehopper

You stated that you found what I wrote 'very objectionable. I wrote that POP music took a big hit when it promoted RAP to people with no taste.

In your response, you wrote that POP music took RAP and threw it on the dung heap.

Sounds like we agreed on at least one thing, though I don't know why you characterized it as objectionable when I wrote it.

 

 

If I misunderstood and you were trying to say that Rap music was an insightful and new form of music that had strong roots in many traditional music music forms and that only when it was commercialized and over-produced did it become a caricature of itself. Then I apologize if I had a knee jerk reaction.

 

Of course, you turned the table when you implied that any shortcomings on the part of those unable to appreciate Rap, were due to racism.

 

Please let me know where in my post I expressed this? I don't believe I even said anything to even insinuate this!

 

I find it accept under my definition of 'music', any form of entertainment that has as it's central content lyrics regarding sex, violence, and other anti-social behaviours. And, unlike you, I do not find them justifiable either due to suffering that took place centuries ago or today. Personallu,if an individual finds he has suffered and wants to share this pain with others musically, I'd prefer Blues, Gospel, Jazz, or even bubble gum music.

 

I think if you look at a large percentage of blues music in particular and even in some of the more traditional "Americana" music you can find references to this type of behavior. A lot of the "Tin Pan Alley" music along with the POP music of the 20's thru the late 50's there is some pretty over the top sexual innuendo. I think the biggest difference is the rappers didn't try to hide things....they put it out there. That is about the only difference.

 

I'll keep this short, it must be tiring constantly searching for social injustice and other percieved forms of political incorrectness on a guitar forum.

 

LOL.....I don't think many people know the musicology behind rap. I am gonna turn 50 this year and not many of my age group even validate rap as music. Too many times I hear the "Rap is Crap" mantra. I was basically a 70's rocker kid...later I started listening to Rap and it really began my inquiry into music history. I think I saw an interview of a rapper on Yo MTV Raps who was talking about his interest in LeadBelly and how he felt that the Rap sound evolved from LeadBelly. So I go buy a LeadBelly CD...when I heard the similarity between his "Field Hollers"...I was hooked and developed a love for all the traditional Blues ...which brought me to Doc Watson and on to Americana Music.

 

I just don't see how sharing some of my understanding of the history of a music form is political correctness???

[bkharmony]

I think if you look at a large percentage of blues music in particular and even in some of the more traditional "Americana" music you can find references to this type of behavior. A lot of the "Tin Pan Alley" music along with the POP music of the 20's thru the late 50's there is some pretty over the top sexual innuendo. I think the biggest difference is the rappers didn't try to hide things....they put it out there. That is about the only difference.

 

I abhor rap, but anyone who thinks the subject material it covers is a new thing needs to read a history book. :) It's ALWAYS been about sex and getting messed up.

 

(Speaking as a fan of pre-1965 country, rockabilly, rhythm & blues, soul, swing, etc.)

[Rambler]

"you implied that any shortcomings on the part of those unable to appreciate Rap, were due to racism."

 

Not that Nodehopper needs my help, but read please his post carefully, that's not what he said. Deep breath time. Rap pushes so many buttons (content, attitudes, form) - its get locked into a hardened reaction. Node's offering a way of looking past the baggage, seeing it in a new light (scratching = diddly-bows-- I like it!).

 

Its not just rap. I'm uncomfortable with a line of thinking that sets the lost golden age of virtue and wonderfulness vs 'the end of all civilization as we know it'. In this context, its just music. But its become grist for the political mill as well and that's a little scary (its hard to talk to your colleague across the aisle when you think he has horns).

[grampa]

The disdain, fear, hatred or whatever angst elicited by rap is similar to the angst expressed by O'Reilly and Beck that our white European based culture is under attack from alien sources. That's silly, our culture is not if a singular source, it's an ever changing mix and trying to keep it from changing will only stifle cultural growth.

[nodehopper]

I certainly don't want to get this thread locked or tossed over into the "lounge". Maybe I did use a stronger wording than I should have in saying "very objectionable" I don't want to flamebait or start anything other than a great discussion on the various trends and history of Pop Music. Let's keep "hot button" words and Fox News Talking Heads out of the discussion.

 

Thank you jkinnama for taking my post as intended. I wanted to dispel the Rap isn't even music - all Rap sucks that I thought I heard in a post. For better or worse...like it or not, Rap has been a huge cultural and musical influence for over 20 years now. It has been thrown into the musical melting pot and in order to have a real discussion on Pop Music you have to at least understand Rap and be open minded to where that influence is heading. Rap is not dead, but seems to be on a steep decline. Dr. Dre, SnoopDogg, Chuck D, Eminem will go down as the Lennon/McCartney/Rolling Stones of a generation.

 

jkinnama - (scratching = diddly-bows-- I like it!) I hadn't thought of it this way before ....but wholeheartedly agree!

 

I personally have to say that I am excited at what the next phase will bring to music. Rap is declining. Rock is declining. I think there will always be a contingent of "MetalHeads" Wearing black clothes and Pentagram jewelry. R&B has shown it's first declines in a long number of years. The Record companies have completely lost control of content (Although they still don't realize it completely yet) and Technology has equalized recording and mass marketing so that any artist with talent, drive and a healthy dose of good luck can develop a career.

 

Before recordings and record companies people made music. When record companies created stars it was the first time in history that music became relegated to Performers and Audience. People stopped making music and started buying records. Could the next wave be an egalitarian music scene where the people again make the music??

 

I hope so!

[AnneS]

It was my Dad who introduced me to Steely Dan after a 2 week trip to the USA as a guest of the US Navy, and earlier to Motown so it worked both ways for me.

 

Different times, different strokes.

 

Excellent point-- I gotta say that my teenagers have introduced me to some pretty good stuff (punk-ish, including My Chemical Romance, Avenged Sevenfold, Weezer, Ludo). I have no clue whether it's considered "popular" or if any of it gets airplay. And, because they're digging up "old" stuff, I get to listen to Bad Religion and Smashing Pumpkins along with them.

 

For my part, my kids know that Emmylou Harris, Patty Griffin, and Lucinda Williams are the three high priestesses, and my oldest recently confessed to "getting into" Fogerty's "Lodi."

 

And thanks to my own parents, who played Marty Robbins' "Singin' the Blues" over and over on their phonograph when I was about six, I am brushing the dust off of that one and expect my oldest to sing it with me at the next open mic opportunity we get.

 

So, like anything else, the good stuff lives on and it hardly matters what the radio or itunes is pushing.

[zombywoof]

Lordy, lots of panties in a wad over that autotune inflected robo-pop rap stuff.

 

The only music my parents introduced me to was opera (you could hear live performances from the Met every Sunday morning on the radio), Jackie Gleason's Music for Lovers and fortunatelythe folk stylings of the Kingston Trio. A friend of my Dad's had a large collection of 78rpm race records and he turned me on to Lonnie Johnson, Tampa Red, Bessie Smith and others. I would spend hours each weekend recording everything he had on a Roberts reel to reel recorder. Then as a teeny bopper I met and went to work for Lee Hays who used to sing bass with the Weavers and who filled my head with stories of traveling the country with Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger and who turned me on to a whole lot more good music. My transistor radio took care of the rest.

 

Sorry but it is hard to appreciate rap after being weaned on stories about company goons busting heads and being hauled before the House Commitee on Un-American Activities to a soundtrack provided by Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee, Cisco Houton, Jim Garland, Leadbelly, Pete, and Woody.

[grampa]

.

 

.

 

Before recordings and record companies people made music. When record companies created stars it was the first time in history that music became relegated to Performers and Audience. People stopped making music and started buying records. Could the next wave be an egalitarian music scene where the people again make the music??

 

I hope so!

 

I share your dream.

[ChrisA83]

Sorry but it is hard to appreciate rap after being weaned on stories about company goons busting heads and being hauled before the House Commitee on Un-American Activities to a soundtrack provided by Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee, Cisco Houton, Jim Garland, Leadbelly, Pete, and Woody.

 

I'm sure some of the rap stars today have stories just as good.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, if someone was slagging off old folk music I would be standing up for that...

[MissouriPicker]

I can't stand Lady Caca, but at least she can do some dancing. Taylor Swift on the otherhand is totally out of her element when performing. Can't sing. Can't dance. Lucky for her she's a pretty blond. Otherwise, she'd still be in junior college.

[Rambler]

Anyone interested in this topic might want to check out Elijah Wald's book How the Beatles Destroyed Rock and Roll, which has a lot to say on the interchange between popular music and art music --particularly the difference between music that tickles the brain and music that dances. He also has his own special bete norie: the disappearance of black music from rock playlists in the 70s. Well worth a read. JK

[nodehopper]

Anyone interested in this topic might want to check out Elijah Wald's book How the Beatles Destroyed Rock and Roll, which has a lot to say on the interchange between popular music and art music --particularly the difference between music that tickles the brain and music that dances. He also has his own special bete norie: the disappearance of black music from rock playlists in the 70s. Well worth a read. JK

 

His "Escaping the Delta" book should be required reading for anyone who picks up a guitar and plays a 7th chord. I have wondered about "How the Beatles Destroyed Rock" and now that you suggest it will pick up a copy. I don't always agree with his take on things, but you cannot fault him for lack of research, understanding, or historical context for his opinions...which are always well thought out.

[albertjohn]

On the subject of Lady GaGa, my playing partner and I are working on a version of Poker Face. Check out youtube - Bens Brother - their version. It's very good. (Sorry can't post link from Blackberry)