Anyone have a new computer?

[milod]

I guess I've had enough problems with Macs through the variations of OSX as we went through the migration from a truly native Mac OS to a variation of Unix.

 

Yeah, my objection to the Mac is largely one of pricing for the hardware/software combination and until the last iteration or three of Windows, to a lack of potential for customization.

 

For what it's worth, for example, I can still have an old Mac-OS type of "window shade" working on my PCs.

 

I once was a Mac OS systems manager and yeah, the old system for its day networked much, much more easily than PCs of the era. Nowadays "bling" is about all they have left, but they market it very well.

 

Drivers also have been a problem with OSX too. Both platforms have left me personally as well as the outfit I work for with a lotta working, functional, and at times better quality hardware that now is orphaned and either sits on a shelf or more practically has been tossed.

 

Some of my objections to the current Mac OS compared to the current PC is that frankly I can still use 15-year-old and older software on the PC. Were I to switch to a Mac I couldn't get much of anything to replace software I now use for less than about 10 times what I could replace a basic hardware setup to keep running WinXP.

 

OTOH, yeah, I think both MS and Apple deep-down have conflicting corporate aims in that they wanna convince consumers they really care and will allow use of older software with newer hardware but then ... naaah, they have to keep the software manufacturers happy so they figure how to make it necessary to "upgrade."

 

I still think you get more bang for the buck with "PC" compared to Mac for some rather obvious reasons. But then I'm also a "type" that prefers the concept of a netbook to the iPod.

 

m

[sparky scott 29]

Is there really any other systems out there besides PC and Mac? Or is this the main reason why there are troubles all around? Not enough competition??

[milod]

Sparky...

 

Actually there have been, and still are "competing" operating systems, mostly based on Unix - the same "stuff" that underlies the Mac but without the degree of consistency and software compatibility that does make the Mac functional for as large an audience as it enjoys.

 

If you go back to the olden days of "personal computers," you'll see why this is the current scene. There were bunches of proprietary operating systems that were almost mutually exclusive in terms of hardware and software. So if you couldn't get a specific package of hardware and software you wanted, you hadda make sure you could get a programming language that worked with the specific computer/OS to write your own.

 

Then CPM arrived for the basic 8-bit Intel chips (and the Zylog Z-80 which was a somewhat faster clone) and with it, a "killer application" called Visicalc. It was a spreadsheet. You could get a decent for the era word processor called "WordStar" that had a spell checker and a menu that could make it make sense running right on your screen.

 

But... you still couldn't necessarily use those programs even on another machine running what supposedly was the same operating system! Apple, btw, actually added a "board" to their 6502 8-bit system that functionally was a second computer that would run CPM and Visicalc. I think they decided then and there never to have to do that sorta thing.

 

There were efforts to make more computers work with CPM and the same software but the Mac and PC hitting about the same time offered something very, very important: Mass market software that would work on most everything. The "CPM" company tried to keep up with a version for the "PC," but it never caught on since "PC-DOS" and "MS-DOS" (virtually the same thing) had the beginning of an avalanche of applications for it and CPM-80 simply did not.

 

The PC had more problems at first for some technical reasons. Microsoft's "flight simulator" was kinda a touchstone for hardware compatibility. The Mac didn't have a problem with that, but it was even more expensive for a tiny screen and hugely expensive if you could get a bigger screen.

 

Nowadays? You can run pretty much the same inexpensive monitors with both, etc., etc.

 

We're far better off with machines that run all sorts of software than the old days. I think that's why, except for certain specialized purposes, the PC reigns as the nearly universal "best" for the times and the Mac reigns as the "Sharper Image" sorta specialty and bling stuff with neat hardware/software "solutions."

 

At least that's my take on why we have, in ways, the best of all worlds in terms of choices.

 

m

[Shnate McDuanus]

Sparky, you really ought to do some more reading if you're going to get into a consumer tech discussion.

 

Ever hear of Linux? It's a family of Unix-based operating systems. Unix? Unix is an influential operating system (or set of specifications, I should say) from which many developments have arisen, including the OSX platform. BeOS, OS/2, XTS-400, AmigaOS, OpenVMS, Solaris...there are (or have been) plenty of alternative operating systems. The reasons why consumers often do not use them is because consumers do not often know about them, they don't receive as extensive development or funding as the "big two," and they are not as heavily-utilized by consumer personal computer distributors. Windows and Mac both have extensive funding and constant development by highly-paid professionals--there are many other operating systems which do not get as much usage because they do not get enough exposure, and contain more flaws because they are not given the same type of attention in development as Windows and Mac.

 

As to hacking OSX (because obviously, it hasn't been done if you haven't heard about it, you omniscient so-and-so you):

 

http://www.zdnet.com.au/mac-os-x-hacked-under-30-minutes-139241748.htm

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4THyVOyGJL4

 

Plus there have been Trojan horses developed for OS X. Don't be so naive in believing the hype of OS X the "uncrackable," the "impenetrable"--any operating system can be cracked if the cracker finds an access point.

 

Also...

 

3 years?? Are we supposed to be impressed right about now or later????

I do know us Mac users don't change the os every couple of months or is it a years you guys are up to now on winblows 7??

With the SAME bug that has been it the system since winblows 3.1 I believe.... Yes I am sure of that now......It NEVER came out or was found until just lately....

To just think, all that time without changes big enough to see something so trivial.... Amazing..........

 

Are you running OSX Lion or are you still on Snow Leopard? See what I mean--they call them updates, but what would you call them?

 

I'd also recommend, if you want to give your comments credibility, to lay off on the ad hominem arguments. You get nowhere by calling it "Winblows," and it's nowhere near as clever as you think it is.

[Rocky4]

And so begins the ranting from the stuck up losers

 

Advise, clear as mud. We're just a bunch of losers

[ShredAstaire]

I have no problem with Windows machines...i own both...

 

Different tools for different jobs, right? Just like guitars...i will never buy a DELL though...Alienware, or otherwise. Their service sucks and they are simply box pushers.

 

I don't do that Mac vs PC arguments....because most people don't need a mac...they are pricey (and for the record, my mac pro is VERY upgradeable) and not all software is available for em.

[deepblue]

If its a HP stay away from it, they have had loads of issues with their all in one PC with touch screen monitor.

 

Thats exactly what it was. Im glad you told me.

 

Thanks for all the input guys. Too many choices out there.

[bluzhammer]

I would start investigating the newest items out that are going to the " CLOUD " , because like it or not that's where all the providers are heading.

[ShredAstaire]

^ Well...only data is stored in "the cloud"....including apps.

 

You still need something to access the data from home...i.e. a computer.

 

They've been talking about the cloud for over 10 years...just different names...Software as a Service, Hosted Applications, Managed Solutions etc etc.

 

I work in the industry and still have my doubts about long term success of "the cloud". There are a lot of security concerns that will likely never get fully worked out. In that I mean, once they solve a problem, 3 more will pop up...pesky hackers!

 

XDemonknight - I see your point about "updates" vs "new versions" of OS's....the only difference there is that I only spend $25 bucks to "update" my mac to the newest version.

 

I also know my mac is not impenetrable which is why i still use a firewall, but i have yet to be infected with any sort of virus in the 4 years i have owned the machine. (It still boots up in 15 seconds - ready to use)

 

No computer is perfect and those who want to argue which OS is better than another need to give it a rest. Like guitars, its all about personal preference. I like my mac for making music and internet surfing...i like my PC for working.

[Bowdiddley]

If its a HP stay away from it, they have had loads of issues with their all in one PC with touch screen monitor.

 

True dat! My neighbor has one and he hates it!

[bluzhammer]

^ Well...only data is stored in "the cloud"....including apps.

 

You still need something to access the data from home...i.e. a computer.

 

They've been talking about the cloud for over 10 years...just different names...Software as a Service, Hosted Applications, Managed Solutions etc etc.

 

I work in the industry and still have my doubts about long term success of "the cloud". There are a lot of security concerns that will likely never get fully worked out. In that I mean, once they solve a problem, 3 more will pop up...pesky hackers!

 

XDemonknight - I see your point about "updates" vs "new versions" of OS's....the only difference there is that I only spend $25 bucks to "update" my mac to the newest version.

 

I also know my mac is not impenetrable which is why i still use a firewall, but i have yet to be infected with any sort of virus in the 4 years i have owned the machine. (It still boots up in 15 seconds - ready to use)

 

No computer is perfect and those who want to argue which OS is better than another need to give it a rest. Like guitars, its all about personal preference. I like my mac for making music and internet surfing...i like my PC for working.

 

I work in the industry also, Data centers, to be exact. 90% of the centers being built now are for the " Cloud ". Remember NASA talked about going to the moon years before they got there. True, you will need some type of device at home, but there is a full on push for the full on " Terminal " type device to access said " Cloud ".

[ShredAstaire]

I work in the industry also, Data centers, to be exact. 90% of the centers being built now are for the " Cloud ". Remember NASA talked about going to the moon years before they got there. True, you will need some type of device at home, but there is a full on push for the full on " Terminal " type device to access said " Cloud ".

 

There is a HUGE push for thin clients accessing data/apps via "the cloud" - I agree with you 100%....but only a TINY fraction of customers (in my experience) are committing to it as their primary methodology. And we're talking about companies/businesses, not personal computing. You're right...it may well happen. I personally do not trust "the cloud" to secure my data...

 

I guess we shall see!

[Silenced Fred]

MAC vs PC ftw.

 

These arguments always make me lulz.

 

But... Mac is way better

[Silenced Fred]

MAC vs PC ftw.

 

These arguments always make me lulz.

 

But... Mac is way better

[Silenced Fred]

MAC vs PC ftw.

 

These arguments always make me lulz.

 

But... Mac is way better

[bluzhammer]

There is a HUGE push for thin clients accessing data/apps via "the cloud" - I agree with you 100%....but only a TINY fraction of customers (in my experience) are committing to it as their primary methodology. And we're talking about companies/businesses, not personal computing. You're right...it may well happen. I personally do not trust "the cloud" to secure my data...

 

I guess we shall see!

 

Me either on the trust issue, I've seen too much to trust it completely with everything I have. It also leads me to wonder at what point will " Big Brother " be allowed to mine informational nuggets from Mr. Cloud.

[milod]

I'm personally very much adverse to the cloud concept for a number of reasons already stated.

 

It's a matter of who controls the cloud, who guards the cloud and who guards the guardians. Which of your emails to friends and family, regardless how "innocent" might be seen at some point to be otherwise?

 

There's also a concern in my own mind of redundancy. Perhaps that means little today, but in the future we have to be concerned to a significant degree with what we will have actually for historic preservation.

 

I'm on the local museum board and frankly I can see diminishing supplies of materials from about 1980 through today due to increasing digital materials that have been tossed or made obsolete by changes in technology. E.g., a number of manuals I've written no longer can be opened by any of my current software and the software doesn't work on current computers. Color negatives, positives and prints also are horridly temporary.

 

One reason I'm increasingly a strong supporter of mandating "print" publication of governmental minutes is that it results in an ongoing "hard copy" record, and that hard copy record also includes pages in state historical archives from local newspapers with other aspects of our history preserved.

 

I'm a history nut, a museum and archive proponent. I've "put my money where my mouth is."

 

For what it's worth, by the way, I also think Gibson should either have it's own archive that's as complete as possible, or should perhaps set up a historical foundation entity to do so. That might even be done with other musical instrument manufacturers since the technology of music and musical instruments has changed so much over the past years when Gibson and Martin got into business, the phonograph, then the electrification of music through first radio and phonographs into electric guitars and PA systems and now digital stuff as the transistor age gave way to ICs, computers and all sorts of communications and storage technology.

 

By the way, some decades ago much of this "cloud" stuff was foretold in sci fi with the concept of "The Final Encyclopedia" by Gordon Dickson in what has come to be known as the Dorsai cycle. A splintering of philosophies, a final encyclopedia of all human knowledge literally in orbit around the earth... Hmmmmm. Much of it is tolerance and lesser control of the individual vs. intolerance and increased control of populations - the ongoing question of the past cupla centuries.

 

m

[ChanMan]

Sparky, you should let folks know your experience up front when you give a recomendation that slams a product. Sorry if I seemed snarky, but your statements were so blatantly innaccurate. I guess I assumed you actually had some computer knowledge. If you're interested, PM me and I'll give you a quick lesson in PC architecture and the Windows OS so's you'll understand.

 

 

Thanks Milo. I'm all over the 8086,87 and 88 architecture. And with the x86 architecture, they were trying to match the internal registers in the CPU to the front side bus everytime they screwed the pooch(SX=sucks <g>). I used to teach A+ certification classes. We started with Intel architecture and Motorola RISC chips. It's good to learn the earlier stuff!!

 

 

 

 

Bluemoon... sorry for the thread derail, but you were being offered some pretty bad info. Let me add my concern over the all-in-one PCs. It's far more than just a video card or monitor that can fail. If any system critical component fails the whole thing is shot. Your repair options are linited, as well, much like buying an exotic car.

 

 

I second the Newegg.com recomendation. I've even recommended Dell to folks with a limited budget.

[milod]

I'll add just one point to prior geekyness... <grin>

 

Today's Mac and PC offerings are incredible and incredibly easy to operate compared to what "we" had 30 years ago in the beginning of the "personal computer" boom. Both still need some study and/or training to get more out of them for specific personal wants or needs.

 

The modular Macs are more expensive than similar PC hardware. Except for laptops I don't care at all for all-in-one "solutions" for reasons discussed elsewhere. Some Mac and PC offerings are those "all-in-one" and I'd never buy one.

 

Regardless of your choices, I'd personally recommend one or, better, two portable hard drives to back up absolutely everything on any "main" computer you might buy. Figure roughly $100 for a big backup USB or Firewire (USB is more common) HD. I have three myself. Leave one at work so it's not in the same building as your personal equipment.

 

Oh - not counting work computers, I currently run an old Mac OS machine with a nice dedicated film scanner, a PC laptop, two PC netbooks and three running PC systems.

 

m

[surfpup]

Just as an aside, I will say that one reason why OSX users generally tend to not get viruses happens to be because there are fewer OSX users around than there are Windows users. OSX has vulnerabilities, but they make up a much smaller demographic.

 

True. A a creator of malware has many more potential victims if he writes for Windows. However, I always thought that the inability of the the Mac OS to open executable files (.exe) had something to do with that as well. Those are often the easiest way to transmit viruses, no?

[tazzboy]

Sparky, you really ought to do some more reading if you're going to get into a consumer tech discussion.

 

Ever hear of Linux? It's a family of Unix-based operating systems. Unix? Unix is an influential operating system (or set of specifications, I should say) from which many developments have arisen, including the OSX platform. BeOS, OS/2, XTS-400, AmigaOS, OpenVMS, Solaris...there are (or have been) plenty of alternative operating systems. The reasons why consumers often do not use them is because consumers do not often know about them, they don't receive as extensive development or funding as the "big two," and they are not as heavily-utilized by consumer personal computer distributors. Windows and Mac both have extensive funding and constant development by highly-paid professionals--there are many other operating systems which do not get as much usage because they do not get enough exposure, and contain more flaws because they are not given the same type of attention in development as Windows and Mac.

 

As to hacking OSX (because obviously, it hasn't been done if you haven't heard about it, you omniscient so-and-so you):

 

http://www.zdnet.com.au/mac-os-x-hacked-under-30-minutes-139241748.htm

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4THyVOyGJL4

 

Plus there have been Trojan horses developed for OS X. Don't be so naive in believing the hype of OS X the "uncrackable," the "impenetrable"--any operating system can be cracked if the cracker finds an access point.

 

Also...

 

 

 

Are you running OSX Lion or are you still on Snow Leopard? See what I mean--they call them updates, but what would you call them?

 

I'd also recommend, if you want to give your comments credibility, to lay off on the ad hominem arguments. You get nowhere by calling it "Winblows," and it's nowhere near as clever as you think it is.

 

Just goes to show you that anything can be hack.

[Riverside]

It's not new, but I've been riding the Macbook since February and have not had a single problem.

[Tman]

It's not new, but I've been riding the Macbook since February and have not had a single problem.

 

I have an Imac and Macbook at home - zero problems

2 Dell's at work - constant problems.

 

Plus some music related software like logic was developed for Macs so run really well.

[EVOL!]

Did any of you guys even open the link? It's made from the highest quality stuff money can buy. Not to mention it is the most powerful computer money can buy.

 

So what! You still have to run a buggy OS and find drivers (that they haven't coded yet or malfunction) for all of the hardware.

 

Get a Mac.

[Bowdiddley]

I always get tickled at the PC vs Mac argument, I have both and really have no issues with either one. I will say comparing the Apple with the Dell is a little unfair. If you want to do a comparison do it between the Mac and a IBM or other top of the line.

 

I built my audio computer using quality parts and I'll gladly match it up to my Mac.