Johnt Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Forgive the naivety of this question, my J45 which I have owned for nearly 30 years has always been strung very very light by the standards of most folk here. I have been using 10s as against the US Lights which are 12s. I need to try to go up a few gears, stop treating acoustic guitars as electric and get some of the sound the guitar was intended to produce. In a recent post cunkhead said he used 17s unless I got that wrong, 16s seem very common also. Now I can work out that if I suddenly put 17s on the poor old girl she might get a shock as well as my fingers getting lacerated but I need some advise as to how I make the changes. For example I currently have some 12s (US lights) do you think it;s OK just to slam them on or should I get someone to tweak the truss rod etc etc. Lastly if , for example, I wanted to end up with 16s, how gradual should I make the changes? Sorry if this questions sounds a tad pathetic but I need to ensure that the guitar stays in shape. Thanks John
ballcorner Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Hey - it is fine to put the 12s on and see if it pulls up on the neck. If you need the truss adjusted afterward (lefty loosie, righty tighty) then fine, but it shouldn't be an enormous difference from the tens - slightly higher action but should be playable nonetheless. Going to mediums or heavy gauge strings is a personal preference/choice. I avoid anything above 12s because after 25+ years working in shops, repair centers and as a vintage broker I have seen a lot of damage caused by heavier strings. Of course, it was more often a case of neglect plus the heavier strings that caused the damage than just the strings themselves - but with all the wrecks I have seen I am not encouraged to run any such risk. Even my HD-28V, which is a guitar built specifically for medium gauge strings, runs on 12s and was set up and ordered from the factory to play lights. The trade off staying on light strings is less overall tone and volume. Personally, I find that high end acoustic guitars sound amazing with light strings and I don't feel a need to blow my chest open with mediums. Again, this is all about choice. In your specific circumstance, I would think your hands would want to spend some time on 12s after playing 10s for so long before making any significant jump to a higher gauge anyways, but whatever you decide to do I just hope you play your guitar and enjoy it.
ksdaddy Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I'm hoping there was a mis-communication or misinterpretation there.... he may have referred to D'Addario EJ16 or EJ17, which is a model designation for the set and has no direct relation to size. Typically what is referred to as "lights" are 12 to 52; "mediums" 13 to 56; "heavy" (seldom used) 14 to 59, although I had a German Hoyer archtop that loved them and the neck never budged! If you've been using 10s, then there will definitely be a shock to the guitar if you go to 12s but it's easily dealt with. Go ahead and put the 12s on but tune it to D for a day or so... (DGCFAD). Then after a day or so, tune it to standard pitch. You will very likely see more relief in the neck at that point. Do not panic; that's what truss rods are for. I wish I had a nickel for every time people recoiled at the thought of adjusting a truss rod, like they were replacing the balance wheel on a 1935 Elgin watch or something. Sheesus, guys! You'd have to wake up real early, eat a good breakfast and pray facing Mecca while swinging a dead cat over your head to hurt a Gibson before suppertime. If/when you do this, and you need help adjusting the rod, let me know. Or I'm sure there are plenty of articles on the internet on how to do it, and I'm sure someone will post a link or seven. It ain't rocket surgery. People need to be a lot more afraid of what polish they use on their guitars than what damage can be done with a quarter turn of a 5/16 socket.
Johnt Posted August 20, 2008 Author Posted August 20, 2008 Ball corner and KSD Thank you so much for your replies and advice. Clearly I need access to someone who can see the effect of the heavier strings ( I have to say that when I squint down the neck of a guitar I can never discern whether it's straight or a dogs hind leg! Scott you said "I'm hoping there was a mis-communication or misinterpretation there.... he may have referred to D'Addario EJ16 or EJ17, which is a model designation for the set and has no direct relation to size." Naw no miscommunication just my stupidity! Thanks for the most polite way you corrected me. I was beginning to become rather awestruck of these folk like Guitarstrummer and cunk etc who played 16s. Streuth I went marlin fishing using lighter wire! I will leave as is until I am next in my guitar tech.s neck of the woods or I see Thermionik. He knows the guitar and is a master at the truss rod, he's just 200 miles away and I wouldn't trust the music store round here to open a set of strings let alone adjust! Thanks again BR John
albertjohn Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 JT, I was very concerned you'd end up using 16s or 17s on your J45. I'm no expert but that sounds like a recipe for damage. Also you would end up with wrists that TW could only dream about! On a related subject, what do you use on your SWD12? I use 10s on my 12r which I think is a good allround bet.
Thermionik Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Wood moves slowly and truss rods are best adjusted in small steps. I am a fuss-budget and would rather change gauge, wait a week or two, adjust the rod a small ammount, wait a week or two, check and adjust a little more. I don't rush a guitar if I can avoid it. 'Specially not a sweet old lady like yours. Best thing you can do Johnt is try a few guitars with heavier strings in your local Geetars-R-Us or Gitarz-U-Like, doesn't matter whether they are good, bad or indifferent. DON'T listen to them, just feel them with your fingers. You will get some idea of how heavy you want to go. I say don't listen - because heavier (quality - obviously) stings on that guitar of yours WILL sound good. No question. Then string up the '45 with said gauge to a tone or a tone and a half below concert for a week or so, bring her up to concert and play the be-jazaus out of her for week or two. Keep her in concert for that time and then check the neck. Truss-rod can be tweaked as needed, and hey-presto, you have an Uncle Robert, and heavier strings. If you are REALLY worried about her - go for lower tension string-types - narrows your choices a tad, but may ease your mind too.....
diogo Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 12s should be ok and the next natural step...i've settled with 12s many years ago after constantly breaking strings with 10s and 11s. 14s will need readjustment for sure, and it'll take its toll on your hands too...i would never put 16s on a vintage guitar, as albert said, it's asking for trouble.
guitarstrummer Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Yes, ksdaddy is correct. The EJ16 and EJ 17 is only a product number for D'Addario strings. The sizes are 12's and 13's. Guitarstrummer's Tip of the Day: The truss rod needs to be adjusted very slowly. Many recommend only turning it 1/4 turn at a time. Then, let it settle in before turning it again. One thing that I've done to make sure I don't turn it too far is to mark the outside of my truss rod wrench socket with a Sharpie pen at 1/4 intervals. Once you have the socket on the truss rod nut, you sometimes can't tell exactly how far you're turning it. This way, you can see your markings on the outside of the socket and can make sure you only turn it 1/4 turn at a time.
Thermionik Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 The D'Addario EJ15 (10-47) are light on acoustics, the EJ18 (14-59) are heavy. EJ26 are nice (11-52) and their EJ46 are for Reso's (16-56). They do a neat String Tension Guide:- http://www.daddariostrings.com/Resources/JDCDAD/images/tension_chart.pdf a must-read for string-virgins.
TommyK Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 As for your fingers. They'll toughen up soon enough. If you play more religeously than I the calouses you have will be good enough. Finger and arm fatigue will set it a might sooner. Barring a bit more difficult right off, but in a couple weeks you'll be old hat at it. Want to increase strength sooner? Get a sponge rubber ball, not a Nerf ball, something tougher. Hold in the palm of your hand and drive each finger, by itself, in turn, into the center of the ball. Do this a hunnert times or so while commuting to and from work. I have a 'give-away' item that advertises a local grain elevator. It's a sponge rubber 'frustration toy'. It's 6" long and shaped like an ear of corn. It's' perfect. There's also, sold at dollar stores, finger nail buffers. About that same size and square in cross section. That's not bad either.
ksdaddy Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 And 1/4 turn of a Gibson truss rod usually will make more than enough change in relief when making a radical switch in string gauge. Gibson truss rods are lovely things.... they just plain WORK. Not blind faith speaking; a few decades of tweaking speaking.
jefleppard Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 ok, there was no such thing as a dumb question til i started talking but alas, junior needs to get this straight. i just went from 12's to 13's on my swd. i should wait a week and adj. the truss rod 1/4 turn? which direction? please be gentle in reply!
guitarstrummer Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 ok' date=' there was no such thing as a dumb question til i started talking but alas, junior needs to get this straight. i just went from 12's to 13's on my swd. i should wait a week and adj. the truss rod 1/4 turn? which direction? please be gentle in reply! [/quote'] Righty-tighty, Lefty-Loosey Turn right to lower relief, left to raise relief. Going from 12's to 13's you may have to turn right to lower relief. And, that's looking down the neck from the top of the headstock.
drathbun Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 ok' date=' there was no such thing as a dumb question til i started talking but alas, junior needs to get this straight. i just went from 12's to 13's on my swd. i should wait a week and adj. the truss rod 1/4 turn? which direction? please be gentle in reply! [/quote'] I always like making a small grease pencil mark on the truss rod nut and headstock to mark the starting point. That way I can keep track of the truss rod's position as I make adjustments. Capo the guitar at the first fret and press down on the low E string at the 12th fret and view the amount of relief you have between the bottom of the string and the top of the 6th fret. I always set the neck as flat as possible, get the nut and the saddle adjusted to the desired action and then show the neck as much relief as needed to have it play well without buzzing for my playing style. Righty tighty - lefty loosey always works for me! :)
TommyK Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 ok' date=' there was no such thing as a dumb question til i started talking but alas, junior needs to get this straight. i just went from 12's to 13's on my swd. i should wait a week and adj. the truss rod 1/4 turn? which direction? please be gentle in reply! [/quote'] Trial and error. If a RH twist (clockwise..... sigh.. "righty tighty" if you must use the..., as my daddy calls it, 'feminine vernacular") causes the neck and therefore the action to get worse, turn it LH (counter clockwise). Continue turning in the "It's gettin' better" direction until you achieve the desired action. As KSDaddy says, rocket science it ain't. I've built rockets before and they ain't that complicated. Just a long, closed end tube with some explodin' stuff underneath... It's the controlling where and how it lands that gets a bit tricky.
ksdaddy Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Just a long, closed end tube with some explodin' stuff underneath... It's the controlling where and how it lands that gets a bit tricky. These threads always turn to sex, don't they?
gearbasher Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I agree with drathbun's relief adjustment technique. But, I capo the first fret and press the high E string down at the fret that meets the body. I adjust until there is just a "hair"of daylight between the string and the 7th fret. And, remember to retune after the adjustment, then check again.
TommyK Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 These threads always turn to sex' date=' don't they?[/quote'] Shame on you KSD! Whos Kubra?
ksdaddy Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Kubra was a woman in Pakistan who left her abusive husband and sought refuge in a woman's shelter. By leaving her husband she brought disgrace on her family, regardless of the abuse she had endured prior to leaving. That didn't matter. Her family coaxed her to come back home and that nobody would harm her. Two weeks later she was shot twice in the head while sleeping. It may have been her husband, it may have been a brother, it may have been her father. It's what is known as an honor killing and nobody is pursued for the murder. I'm not sure if her grave is even marked. This happens every day. Every day. Tick-friggin'-tock. That should sum up my opinion of celebrating cultural diversity. Don't mean to be Mr. Buzz Kill. Play on.
jefleppard Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 thanks to all. i like my action a little high because i strum hard and despise buzz of any kind. should i leave more than 'a hair' of space once capo'd and e-string depressed?
Hoss Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I can't for the life of me imagine using 10's on a J45...You are in for a treat!
guitarstrummer Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 thanks to all. i like my action a little high because i strum hard and despise buzz of any kind. should i leave more than 'a hair' of space once capo'd and e-string depressed? Well, I'll confuse you even more. The way I check for relief is to lay a steel ruler (at least 18") on it's edge down the center of the fretboard. Then, try putting a standard business card between the bottom of the ruler and the 6th fret. That's the amount of thickness I like and I'm also a heavy strummer.
guitarstrummer Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I can't for the life of me imagine using 10's on a J45...You are in for a treat! I can't either. Seems like the strings would be breaking all the time, the way I strum.
jefleppard Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Well' date=' I'll confuse you even more. The way I check for relief is to lay a steel ruler (at least 18") on it's edge down the center of the fretboard. Then, try putting a standard business card between the bottom of the ruler and the 6th fret. That's the amount of thickness I like and I'm also a heavy strummer. [/quote'] thanks, gs.
TWilson Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I've used mainly D'Addario EJ-16's most of my guitar life. I like the feel and sound of them. I tried EJ-17's and they sounded great but they led to cramping in my left hand and it seemed like it was harder to get a good "pinch" or "snap" on the strings when I finger picked. Very loud and celestial when attacked with a pick, however. The difference between the two didn't really seem overwhelming to my old ears. I have Elixer Nano 80/20 bronze 12-52's on my J-45 right now and I think they sound great. I didn't have to do anything to the J-45 when I went from the lights to the mediums. I think you'll like either one of these much better than your current 10's. None of the original colonists ever used 10's on their instruments, or, as they called them ," the strings of the servant girls." EJ-16's are good enough for Lindsey Buckingham so they're damn well good enough for me. Good luck Johnt, I trust you to make a wise decision.
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