reset or not reset

[soao]

I bought my '73 J45 from the original owner in '75. It's almost the only guitar I've ever played. I've been using it mainly for bluegrass lately. The action is now about 1/4" at the 12th. The bridge has already been shaved so it will have to be replaced. I expect this and a reset to cost in the 10-14 hundred dollar area. These old round shoulders don't get much respect, so I'm just at the probable value of this guitar to have it fixed. Lucky for me, there are a few very good guitar techs in the SF Bay Area, Gryphon to name one. That $1400.00 area is certainly well on the way to just putting it out to pasture and getting something else. I don't want to buy something that will have the same issues. It seems like the newer guitars don't sell for cheap enough to justify not getting a warranty. So the real question is, does this overbraced round shouldered friend have the tone worth spending $1400 on. I went to a guitar store to see what I've been missing. The first thing I pulled off the wall was a j45 standard. I'll have to say my little 38 year old was better or just as good to my ears as what I was playing. I think my treble was way better. The only guitars I liked better tone wise were a J200 and a Hbird. I like what I have better than the D28 I tried. They had a pretty nice HD28 that I liked as well. So the ones I liked were more than just standard and upwards to 3K and better out the door. The good news to me is that from what I see, I think the sound of my guitar stacks up to almost anything I saw under 3K. As far as the rap on these RSJ45's being over braced is concerned, my guitar still plays and sounds pretty darned good considering the camping, beach and hot cars it's been subjected to. The main scratches on the front of the guitar were from one single time I dropped it by a pool to save a drowning 3 year old 30 years ago. It has a name, "Bo". I think I'll get it fixed.

[E-minor7]

Just a detail here – I believe you are talking 'bout a square not round shouldered guitar. Welcome -

[BigKahune]

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I would expect a reset to be a bit less than $1K. I think that price range you mentioned is kind of high.

[soao]

Yep, I meant square shoulders. It will need the fret job that comes with a reset as well as a new bridge. Hell, as long as I'm there I'll have a compensated bone saddle. I hope you're right about the price. I think the point of my post is that I was pleased how my SQUARE shoulder J45 sounded to my ears against almost anything I tried. That guitar has been played a lot in it's life.

[j45nick]

$1400 for a neck set and a new bridge seems high. I'm having these two things done on an older J-45 right now as part of a general re-hab. Those two jobs are itemized by a superb independent luthier at $400 for the neck re-set, and $225 for the bridge and saddle. A new bridge plate runs another $180 if needed. In my case, it is. The neck re-set he's doing on a '68 ES-335 for me is running about $500-600, as it is a more complex job.

 

Forget about cost relative to value. It's all about whether or not you like the guitar, and want to keep it. After this much time, I suspect you do.

[j45nick]

The re-fret should probably add about $300 if done at the same time. That's just an educated guess, since I'm not having it done on either of these guitars.

[eltonwce]

I paid the price to have neck reset,plane fingerboard and refret by Gibson repair in Nashville. $1500.00. Was the guitar worth it? No. But the Guitar is now playable and sounds so much better than it did. I am sure you can find some one to do a great job for less. But probably not that much less. I could have bought a new J-45 for the same amount and I did. My J-45 Square shoulder was built between 72-73. I bought it in 1976 for $100.00. It was unplayable before I had the work done. So I considered the fact that I would never sell it any way. I might as well at least make it playable. If you have the money to do the work I would say go for it.

[rar]

... Those two jobs are itemized by a superb independent luthier at $400 for the neck re-set, and $225 for the bridge and saddle. A new bridge plate runs another $180 if needed. ...

 

Does this superb luthier live in the SF Bay Area? If so, is he independently wealthy? Does his wife support him? Does he holds down a second job that pays better? Can't think of any other possibilities offhand. :)

 

-- Bob

[Tarrr]

I used to live in SantaCruz 1977-1980 and I remember several good luthiers who owned small shops with reasonable fees. One of them repaired my Martin D12-18, then later on started SCGC. Point is, a standard reset shouldn't cost more than ~$500 and is not that big a deal. Check around for a qualified independent with no big business overhead. In the ATL area there are a number of manufacturer's independent luthiers to be found, a Martin guy lives in my neighborhood and did a quality (original owners warranty) reset on that same D12-18 a couple years ago. There are a number of good reset videos on YouTube to ease the strain. Your J45 might just return to the living, best wishes, my J45's name is 'Happy'.

[j45nick]

Does this superb luthier live in the SF Bay Area? If so, is he independently wealthy? Does his wife support him? Does he holds down a second job that pays better? Can't think of any other possibilities offhand. :)

 

-- Bob

 

 

Nope. Lives in the backwoods of Florida (well, the suburbs of Naples, anyhow). However, those prices were very similar to prices quoted by other well-known luthiers. Marguerite Pastella (Fret Not) charges $650 for a re-set of a conventional dovetail neck, but she doesn't take in much outside work these days.

 

Of course, everything is more expensive out in SF, I suppose.

[Hall]

soao, sounds like you have decided upon a, "matter of the heart". Best be very certain of whom "Bo" is going to be sharing a bed. Good luck.

 

Hall

[dhanners623]

The $1,400 figure does seem high. I checked the website for my local repair shop, Hoffman Guitars in Minneapolis (which helpfully posts its prices online) and for a neck reset, they charge from $350 to $600, and to make a new bridge (as in actually make one) they charge from $200 to $400. They don't list a price for an off-the-shelf bridge. So even on the high end, we'd be talking about $1,000. On the low end, $550.

 

Here's their price list: http://www.hoffmanguitars.com/repair.htm

 

If the guitar has lasted this long, it shows it is solid and that you've taken care of it. It might be worth putting the money into it to bring it back to its full potential. And there are plenty of folks who would tell you that one neck reset over that period of time is an awfully good record. I know some Martin owners consider a neck reset every 10 or 15 years to just be part of the deal with owning a Martin. It comes with the turf.

 

Then again, it is your money and your guitar. When you come to a forum like this, there are a lot of people (myself included) who are happy to help you spend your money.

[jchabalk]

I have a 76 hummingbird and had what probably amounts to the same work done on it a few years back. It was about the same cost you're talking about and was done at a shop in the SF Bay area. I had called around to a few different places at the time and the cost was all basically the same no matter what shop i talked to.

 

My guitar - unfortunately - is a dog and fixing it up didn't really help it too much. Had i had to do it again i would have cut my losses on the guitar and out the money towards a different guitar. It sounds like you've got a good guitar on your hands. With that being the case i would recommend that you proceed.

 

EDIT: Gryphon is one of the shops i spoke with, i ended up getting the work done at Gary Brawer in SF

[Tarrr]

Again... if $1400 is your best price, you should buy a new Hummingbird. I played a new one today at GC and it was just great for only $2050. If you trade your oldie they will knock off %10 of the new price in the ATL area.

best wishes

[dhanners623]

I should add that for $1,400, you can buy a lot of guitar these days. And chances are, they're going to be better built than the one you've got -- and easier to fix if something goes wrong.

[soao]

Part of this process is determining if my $1400.00 could buy a better guitar than what I'll have when this one is repaired. I really didn't like the tone of what I tried any better than what I've got unless it sold for around 3K. That included a new J45 stnd, Guild D50, D28 and a Taylor that looked like a J200. It's not like my J45 is unplayable right now. It just has no more adjustment left. At 61 years old, I hope to have another 20 + years of flatpicking left. Thanks for all the comments.

[j45nick]

Part of this process is determining if my $1400.00 could buy a better guitar than what I'll have when this one is repaired. I really didn't like the tone of what I tried any better than what I've got unless it sold for around 3K. That included a new J45 stnd, Guild D50, D28 and a Taylor that looked like a J200. It's not like my J45 is unplayable right now. It just has no more adjustment left. At 61 years old, I hope to have another 20 + years of flatpicking left. Thanks for all the comments.

 

Even in need of a neck re-set, your old J-45 has a reasonable amount of value. Everyone has a different idea of at what stage you really need a re-set. My J-45 was playing just fine, but the bridge had to be cranked way up (unlike most in need of a re-set), and the switch to a new non-adjustable bridge meant that a neck re-set was called for to keep the saddle at a rational height.

 

Say at worst case you got $1000 for your J-45. Tht would give you $2400 towards a newer guitar. Note that I said "newer" not new. For better or worse, newer production guitars, even very good ones, depreciate for a few years unless they go out of production. As an example,a new 000-28 EC from a dealer will set you back $3k-$3.3K (with a warranty, of course). I bought my virtually-pristine 2007 (one small scratch that will buff out) for $2.1K.

 

If you are willing to live without a new guitar warranty, buying a five-year-old guitar could save you 30% over new cost.

[soao]

I wouldn't sell it with out disclosing that it needs a reset and the cost. That's saying that a fixed up square shouldered J45 is worth $2400.00. (1400+1000). Of course I'm not too concerned with the final value because if I fix it, I'll probably keep it for a long time. I think this will have the tone of a $2400.00 guitar when it's done. Part of the better tone will be the fact that it will play easier. I'm really thinking that since I payed $350.00 for this guitar, I have an opportunity to buy it again for $1400.00.

[jchabalk]

+1 on what soao said. When i got my 76 hummingbird I was naive. The guy I bought it from was (in hindsight) trying to unload it because it needed a bunch of work to play well.

 

When i sampled it from him for 10 minutes it sounded great and was priced reasonably. Then a month later when i wasn't really getting along with it i started examining it and understanding the issues it had i figured out i'd been suckered.

 

Anyway, my advice would be that if you have an old guitar that you've owned for a long time, know and love the sound of and have a bond with it's probably worth it to get the work done but there's a chance that that amount of work will change the guitar. (for better or worse)

 

If it's a new (to you) guitar that needs an overhaul know what you're getting yourself into and seriously consider cutting your losses and walking away. The former seems to be the case for the OP.

 

Other pearls i'd pull from this thread:

- Generally speaking - don't buy used 70's Gibsons with questionable histories if you have a choice (that one's mine ;) )

- Buy New J45s - (i've found them to be great anyway)

- Neck Reset, Refret and a New Bridge is a serious amount of work and can in and of itself change the character of a known guitar.

- If you like your guitar get it fixed and keep playing it, don't scrap it for a new one (also very subjective)

 

I just got a new/used, non-70s banjo the other day, i'm going to go play it for a bit

[j45nick]

I wouldn't sell it with out disclosing that it needs a reset and the cost. That's saying that a fixed up square shouldered J45 is worth $2400.00. (1400+1000). Of course I'm not too concerned with the final value because if I fix it, I'll probably keep it for a long time. I think this will have the tone of a $2400.00 guitar when it's done. Part of the better tone will be the fact that it will play easier. I'm really thinking that since I payed $350.00 for this guitar, I have an opportunity to buy it again for $1400.00.

Now you're looking at it properly and analytically.

 

I bought my 1948 J-45 in 1966 for $50. It cost $175 in 1968 to have Gibson put on a new top (which I did not ask for and did not want), a new fretboard, and a re-fret.

 

Right now I'm spending just under $2K on it for a "million mile tune-up" that is involving a lot of work, some of which has been on my wish list for more than 40 years.

 

So I'll end up with something under $2.5K in a guitar that isn't original but plays like a dream, and is a box full of 45 years of memories. Every time I pick it up, it's like stepping into a time machine.

 

What's that worth? Just do it!

 

"Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there."

[Jeff-7]

If you connect with the J45 as much as I'm inferring here I would just do the reset, new bridge, and refret. $1400 seems a bit on the high side, my luthier charges around $400 for a reset and the new rosewood bridge he is making for me cost $200.