Duende Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I know this clip has been posted before in the lounge, but I am curious as to what speed people think the music became too fast, or did it seem like it needed to be faster even? My favourite tempo I think was 170. I liked the way it sounded exciting but the clarity of could be heard I also posted this clip on my guitar and piano page with the purpose of getting people thinking about what is the 'right' speed for a piece of music. By 'right' I mean what is right for their own interpretation. If you haven't seen enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BynUZOJc8QI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 ...what is the 'right' speed for a piece of music. By 'right' I mean what is right for their own interpretation. Clearly, by definition, it must be the speed which they, and they alone, deem appropriate. No-one else's opinion is of the slightest importance whatsoever. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Clearly, by definition, it must be the speed which they, and they alone, deem appropriate. No-one else's opinion is of the slightest importance whatsoever. P. Well that just spoils everything!! But yes it is true (to a point) - but I suppose the object of this exercise is to make you think about what speed you play a particular piece. So yes, I am on a bit of a mission at the moment Pippy, trying to get people I teach to try a variety of things before settling on a choice - eg not just playing a piece at the speed that is easiest, but being really honest with themselves and trying it at various tempos to see which works best! I am amazed how much as a musician I continually make subconscious lazy short cuts, so this type of exercise helps me stay honest with what is really the best thing for the music and not my convenience! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 When it out runs the tempo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 OK. In which case each piece must be evaluated on it's own merit. I've seen the whole ten minutes of the posted clip before and I seem to recall I was bored stiff after about 90 seconds. I'm sorry to say I don't really fancy spending another ten minutes watching it again, today... I listened to the clip of Nokie Edwards where he was talking about The Ventures and he talked a bit about how they got around to their version of the Johnny Smith jazz-piece "Walk Don't Run". In the course of his discussion he mentioned the Chet Atkins version and I tried (unsuccessfully due to copyright laws) to track down the CA version as well as a few others (you might have seen some of my pluckings over on the FSGC, Matt? No great shakes but fun to do!). My preference was when the piece was played at about 2/3 The Ventures' speed. It opened the track up to a multitude of variations which would, to my ears, sound hurried/rushed/confusing at the regular tempo whereas the slower pace and the 'space' thus created made it a much more fascinating piece with which to play around. Just my 2d-worth. 'The Artist Formerly Known as Puppy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 the last one is to fast for comfort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I tend to agree that I also got bored listening after a few minutes. I guess to me the thing is that one one loses the melodic "line" it's either too fast or too slow. There used to be a lot of "versions" of various songs in different stylistic iterations that might be done and yet became rather popular. But in each case the melodic line was retained. For example, the 1939 #1 hit "Deep Purple" as done by the Larry Clinton orchestra with singer Bea Wain was virtually doubled in speed in the late '50s or early '60s (I don't exactly recall) in a pop/rock version. But then one comes also to the question of "what is speed." Another thread on here asking about "guitar gods" entirely begs the question since the suggested players all do rock and basically as a single string picking sorta thing. What of classical players who probably have half again as many notes played in some pieces per second? Even very fast jazz pickers were ignored apparently because they lacked a fuzz pedal. What of flamenco players? I know also that some material such as that chromatic fantasia and fugue of Bach's goes so fast that it can destroy a meal if played in the background and you still pretty much can follow the musical line involved. So in ways I'd suggest that the specific music, yes, will have speeds in which it may remain pleasing to an audience, but I'd also suggest that the time, place and even era might also play a role in acceptance by audiences. My own weakness tends to be "speeding" when I'm doing some pieces such as "The Entertainer" or "Classical Gas" fingerstyle. It is sometimes rewarding to me to get the notes I have in mind all played with good timing - but I question that it's all that entertaining to an audience. That said, I wrote a simple little "ragtime" sorta thing I called "MDDDDDDDDDDDD Rag" designed to have a D as the center of a piece done in the key of G that started slowly and by intent sped up to as fast as I could play - and it went over well with an audience. Bottom line? I dunno. I guess it depends on the audience. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 My own weakness tends to be "speeding" when I'm doing some pieces such as "The Entertainer" or "Classical Gas" fingerstyle. Bottom line? I dunno. I guess it depends on the audience. m This brings up a different dimension. There is an album by two classically-trained concert pianist-performing sisters - Katia and Marielle Labeque - where they get to let rip with some ragtime pieces from Scot Joplin et al. 'Gladrags'. To pick out just one highlight, they play a version of 'Maple-Leaf Rag' which is dizzying in it's execution - both in regard to tempo and the players' individual improvisations. It's could hardly be described as being a 'Ragtime' piece any more but, boy!, is it stunning! So yes; audience expectations from the performer - Liszt, anyone? - can transcend what we would normally expect from the piece as originally scored. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artie Owl Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't care who you are his hand had to be sore after that. Also, I think almost everyone in life gets to be as good as that at something, it just may not be with something as cool as a guitar. Also, also, Matt I liked the first tempo best out of them all as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Someone I love for his adventurous choice of speeds and articulations is the late Canadian pianist Glen Gould. It really drives some people mad how incredibly fast (and also slow), he took pieces LOL. Here is the relatively slower aria from his later interpretation of Bach's Goldberg variations (1958). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCuALWK6ZNg Here is his earlier recording where he takes the aria quite a bit faster. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGY9tHHM63Q&playnext=1&list=PL78D081D5D4F03818 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Glen Gould was a true genius. Both are astonishing interpretations, IMHO. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yeah awesome you can play Flight of the Bumblebee at 320bpm sweet....was this the first lesson you took when you were 5 and are still working on it 40 years later? I wonder if he can play ANY scale at that speed, this guy looks like a one trick pony to me. Even YJM who really pulls of the neo-classical isnt this big of a ******, I really hope in the guiness world book of records they mention the only thing he could play at the 320bpm was "Flight of the Bumblebee" I am sure if anyone of us spent all the time we do learning songs and making music just practicing the same 12 bars of music for 20 years we could easily drop kick this guy out of his spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest farnsbarns Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yeah awesome you can play Flight of the Bumblebee at 320bpm sweet....was this the first lesson you took when you were 5 and are still working on it 40 years later? I wonder if he can play ANY scale at that speed, this guy looks like a one trick pony to me. Even YJM who really pulls of the neo-classical isnt this big of a ******, I really hope in the guiness world book of records they mention the only thing he could play at the 320bpm was "Flight of the Bumblebee" I am sure if anyone of us spent all the time we do learning songs and making music just practicing the same 12 bars of music for 20 years we could easily drop kick this guy out of his spot. You should look him up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I enjoyed the whole thing ..... I can hear the dedication that player put into that piece, and to pull it off live is just amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Speed Kills........just sayin'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yeah awesome you can play Flight of the Bumblebee at 320bpm sweet....was this the first lesson you took when you were 5 and are still working on it 40 years later? I wonder if he can play ANY scale at that speed, this guy looks like a one trick pony to me. Even YJM who really pulls of the neo-classical isnt this big of a ******, I really hope in the guiness world book of records they mention the only thing he could play at the 320bpm was "Flight of the Bumblebee" I am sure if anyone of us spent all the time we do learning songs and making music just practicing the same 12 bars of music for 20 years we could easily drop kick this guy out of his spot. I think you may have missed the point with this as a talking point? the idea was to look at a piece played at different tempos and evaluate which worked the best. The clip I used of this chap was because he plays it from the conventional tempo that many have taken, to his super fast rendition at the end. The Glen Gould clips above, illustrates the same thing i.e same piece but at different speeds... re the guitarist in the first clip - Tiago Della Vega, he is actually an accomplished rock guitarist. Not to my personal taste, but I lift my hat to him as I still think he is great at what he does http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1-PZCZtTXM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I think it has to be taken in perspective sure I can appreciate someone with the dexterity to play that fast but I would agree with Matt at 170 bpm it was still music beyond 220 it was pretty much noise. I enjoyed watching the video but I would never want to listen to that tempo of music. Tiago della Vega isn't a one trick pony at all he's a talented guitarist and he's 27 or 28 years old, Ive heard him do rock and brazilian jazz style pieces he's tlented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I know this clip has been posted before in the lounge, but I am curious as to what speed people think the music became too fast, or did it seem like it needed to be faster even? My favourite tempo I think was 170. I liked the way it sounded exciting but the clarity of could be heard I also posted this clip on my guitar and piano page with the purpose of getting people thinking about what is the 'right' speed for a piece of music. By 'right' I mean what is right for their own interpretation. If you haven't seen enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BynUZOJc8QI YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN! ??? Cookie, I am not sure if you are not understanding the idea behind the thread, but it wasn't to ignite the cliche argument of speed vs feel and all that BS lol, but to hear a piece of music, played at different speeds and discuss tempo. Are you saying all the speeds you found boring, or are you saying that virtuoso pieces in general bore you ? I am interested to hear you perspective Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 That was impressive for sure. I agree with Matt that at 170 you could still hear some clarity and separation in the notes. The faster it gets, the more like a drone it sounds to me. This was clearly just an exercise and demonstration to set a speed record. Not an actual musical performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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