So what scales/modes/chords do you play?

[TommyK]

Ionian mode almost exclusively, but with brief forays into the Phrygian an Mixolydian modes.

 

All the Major chords and necessary minors, sprinkled with some major 7ths

 

Scales? what's that?

[FirstMeasure]

TommyK, if you know all the Major Chords you should know all the Minor Chords. Locate and Flat the third and there you have it.

[cam011235]

Ionian mode almost exclusively, but with brief forays into the Phrygian an Mixolydian modes.

 

All the Major chords and necessary minors, sprinkled with some major 7ths

 

Scales? what's that?

i have heard of that where people use all modal playing no scales as such ..i guess i am to stuck in the minor keys from pentatonic i do a little major key but you got a different approach ..its good doing this thread coz its good to learn from different people

[cam011235]

i think the thing that is interesting in major keys is going to the relative minor ..i suppose finding that relationship..its good sometimes coloring minor keys with 6ths and major 2nds..and using stepping or passsing notes out of the key ,,sometimes i try to see the scale as a pattern with colors the way jimi did and i guess use the numbers ..and sometimes try to impro just go intuitive let the feel take over

[FirstMeasure]

i have heard of that where people use all modal playing no scales as such ..i guess i am to stuck in the minor keys from pentatonic i do a little major key but you got a different approach ..its good doing this thread coz its good to learn from different people

Move the Minor Pentatonic scale back three frets and it's the Major Pentatonic Scale, which is where you run into relative Minors. For example E minor is G Major (which is actually a backwards way of thinking about it, but I learned to Play in Minor Keys first, so that's the way I think about it).

[Tman]

All day when visiting this forum I found myself in an avatar induced hypnosis.

 

I thought about this and realized a couple of things. I've been playing since the mid 70s. I don't know what modal is but I do know that I am essentially stuck in the 3 decades that are the 60s - 80s. I write songs that sound like they were influenced by that music. I also have/like major to minor changes (d-dm, f-fm sort of thing) and I like a lot of chord progressions that climb up or down the neck with open strings being played, especially the B and E open. One of these days I need to learn what it is that I'm doing.

[cam011235]

Move the Minor Pentatonic scale back three frets and it's the Major Pentatonic Scale, which is where you run into relative Minors. For example E minor is G Major (which is actually a backwards way of thinking about it, but I learned to Play in Minor Keys first, so that's the way I think about it).

exactly e minor is g major just different root plus minor second becomes major second ..theres no fourth in major or no 7th ..there is a major second and 6th plus minor third becomes major third ..i am into relative minor major pentatonic..but i find it does take getting used to i tend to stick to e minor a minor and g minor usually but it is good to go into the relative major like hey joe is e minor but the chorus goes into g major the relative major ..i love blues theory its awesome

[Shnate McDuanus]

yeah sludge is good for sure i get into ISIS i also like tuning to B its actually drop D tuned down one and half steps..it is a different approach but i love it actuallly i prefer using an esp horizon for this type of stuff the 24 frets and setup handles the baritone well the intonation is better behaved.. i love em with gibsons ...i am a bit like you in some ways.. i do a lot of rhythmic stuff in B usually minor keys try to find riffs and and build up progressions its a subtle sort of things tuned so low it actuallly sounds great clean to ..like i said i am big into ISIS and try to sort learn from them in their approach..most progessions are really blues theory with some chromatic passing ..its actually quite good doing some lead in this tuning the strings are nice and soft and you can get fast with it..i usually stay safe with the pentatonic patterns here the same would in drop D ..treating the first pattern on the 10th fret..i dont use a lot of different keys in this approach..but like you say if you work the lead up you can get a bit of fluency with it ..i been trying some different right hand tapping stuff too..this is good with pro tools tracks it fairly easy to build up i also like being able to do every thing myself..bass guitar lead rhythm keys occasionally so i can follow ideas through..i got to admit i do struggle with modes i just get confused i know all this stuff of a major scale and different starting points but yeah i get a little lost..some times i like to check the uber players like john petrucci and paul gilbert i go through little phases where i try to shred not very well may i add but i like to get that sort of athletic approach to it ..petrucci has some great classes he sometimes used more pstterns rather than just scales..i get to caught up in the pentatonic and minor scales and need to find ways out of them sometimes using passing notes in and out of the key ..yeah i could start raving on but i will cut it off hahaa but yeah i guess i got different appproaches but the music i listen to the most is more along those lines tool isis russian citrcles trent renzor apc pelican etc mainly post metal ..oh yea its good to go back to standard sometimes and just sort of play ol school pentatonic it all helps in the end i think

 

Nice, yeah. I love super low tunings and I like playing them clean, too. Also, ISIS is an amazing band, and you've got some sweet influences--Tool, ISIS, Russian Circles, NIN, Pelican etc. are all excellent. Trent Reznor, in addition to Dax Riggs and Martin Van Drunen/Eric Daniels, taught me a lot of what I know about songwriting and a lot of what I know about attitude, which, let's be fair, is extremely important in putting on an entertaining show and in recording a meaningful, convincing song.

 

Here are my ur-texts, though. Everything I strive for exists in these two tracks:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjBwxXmNY0Q

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuDMZAvf5gw&feature=related

 

The first one is extremely heavy and athletic--it goes through a plethora of amazingly heavy and sludgy riffage. The second one is slow, moody and atmospheric, but still has an element of indefinable heaviness, soul and attitude.

[cam011235]

All day when visiting this forum I found myself in an avatar induced hypnosis.

 

I thought about this and realized a couple of things. I've been playing since the mid 70s. I don't know what modal is but I do know that I am essentially stuck in the 3 decades that are the 60s - 80s. I write songs that sound like they were influenced by that music. I also have/like major to minor changes (d-dm, f-fm sort of thing) and I like a lot of chord progressions that climb up or down the neck with open strings being played, especially the B and E open. One of these days I need to learn what it is that I'm doing.

 

sorry bout the avatar i changed it some one else mentioned it was a bit intense

 

alot of the time people workout technical things with out realising it just by playing and finding what works but often there are reason why these work i suppose the best thing i could suggest to really learn lead is to learn the 5 pentatonic patterns or at least the first on it will help you achieve alot but i find music very vast and diverse there is so much to learn i cant go where some people go but i do try to keep learning and finding fresh ways of playing

[cam011235]

Nice, yeah. I love super low tunings and I like playing them clean, too. Also, ISIS is an amazing band, and you've got some sweet influences--Tool, ISIS, Russian Circles, NIN, Pelican etc. are all excellent. Trent Reznor, in addition to Dax Riggs and Martin Van Drunen/Eric Daniels, taught me a lot of what I know about songwriting and a lot of what I know about attitude, which, let's be fair, is extremely important in putting on an entertaining show and in recording a meaningful, convincing song.

 

Here are my ur-texts, though. Everything I strive for exists in these two tracks:

 

 

The first one is extremely heavy and athletic--it goes through a plethora of amazingly heavy and sludgy riffage. The second one is slow, moody and atmospheric, but still has an element of indefinable heaviness, soul and attitude.

 

yeah they are great i see why you like them the first does some really interesting timing changes i love slow heavy doomy stuff..the second has a nice feel it sort of reminds me a little of some black metal

 

i think your right about putting in a meaningful convincing song you got to feel it ..i trash a lot of riffs when recording as i am after something that exists properly for its self i dont want to fake it i want that progression to live to have purpose or some life not just coz i need to make sound.. i love the way isis build riffs and progressions up patiently slowly it makes the dynamics so powerful when they go from the soft build the power playing just blows you away it is so effective

[milod]

All kidding aside, I think "kids" nowadays (e.g., folks under 50) are exposed to different scales and such than what I think in, and are more likely to think that way.

 

That's why I'm not always kidding when I say I'm doing keyboard elevator music on guitar - "sweet" jazz chords here and there, but I don't think in terms of "modes" but rather in terms of stuff I've listened to that somehow stuck in my head.

 

I'm not certain, but I think I can, and do learn a lot about pickin', chords and stuff, but I also think that the way I do melodies for standards or whatever, I'm not thinking "lead" but rather doing it all myself in ways that musically feel comfortable ... which in a lotta my stuff probably reflects more what a soft jazz keyboard player would be doing in the 40s through the 60s. And that's... <grin> probably keyboard elevator music.

 

m

[FirstMeasure]

exactly e minor is g major just different root plus minor second becomes major second ..theres no fourth in major or no 7th ..there is a major second and 6th plus minor third becomes major third ..i am into relative minor major pentatonic..but i find it does take getting used to i tend to stick to e minor a minor and g minor usually but it is good to go into the relative major like hey joe is e minor but the chorus goes into g major the relative major ..i love blues theory its awesome

I still am more comfortable in Minor keys, but I have gotten comfortable with major keys. I discovered playing in different positions helped a lot. Like instead of playing G major in the Open or 12th fret position I'd play it in the 3rd fret position. Giving my Thumb the Bass note when I need it. That also made playing in Minor Keys more interesting when you play in those "Major" positions.

[Tman]

sorry bout the avatar i changed it some one else mentioned it was a bit intense

 

alot of the time people workout technical things with out realising it just by playing and finding what works but often there are reason why these work i suppose the best thing i could suggest to really learn lead is to learn the 5 pentatonic patterns or at least the first on it will help you achieve alot but i find music very vast and diverse there is so much to learn i cant go where some people go but i do try to keep learning and finding fresh ways of playing

 

I was just joking about the avatar. Nice response and I think you are correct. I learned the pentatonic scales sometime long ago and I've just kind of built on it not really knowing if I was correct.

 

btw my sis lives in Melbourne. Want to visit Tas sometime in the future.

[FirstMeasure]

It's hard for me to explain (one reason I don't claim to be a Guitar Teacher), but I don't think Theory First when I'm playing. I listen and feel my way around a song or jam or chord run. Theory and Written music is a way of explaining and recording music, not playing or making it.

 

Of course it makes it easier to Identify the Key and improvise without hitting "Bad Notes" when you have some Theory under you belt, but mostly it gives us a means of talking about what we just played, or what we heard someone else play, with a common language.

 

I always keep in mind that much of theory is based on Math. Fractions after fractions. Well, if there transcendental figures in Math then there are Transcendental Note Values, making it an Imperfect Theory. Music is Analog, Not digital.

[cam011235]

I was just joking about the avatar. Nice response and I think you are correct. I learned the pentatonic scales sometime long ago and I've just kind of built on it not really knowing if I was correct.

 

btw my sis lives in Melbourne. Want to visit Tas sometime in the future.

oh cool your sister is out here lovely city melbourne used to live there..yeah tassies a lovely spot but best in the summer it gets cold here but is great when sunny and warm she would enjoy it people very friendly here nice countryside...just sort of mentioned the pentatonic as its seemed to be the thing that turned around for me most of her would be familiar with it..i am only a limited player but much good music isnt always super technical

[EvanPC]

There was a time when I thought I was mildy sure of what I was doing. I'm not so sure of it anymore.

 

I learned what was taught to me as being modal scales. I learned the accompanying pentatonic scales, which overlap, or weave in and out of, or on top of, the modal scales I learned.

 

I think, for the most part, I can string some chords together and have them be "theoretically" appropriate to a specific key, and then play an improvised lead over top of said chord progression, which I also believe to be in the appropriate key.

 

I think what I'm doing much of the time is, slipping in and out of pentatonic scale shapes and the accompanying modal scale shape, when I chose. I try to spice it up I guess. I don't want to sound like I'm always playing pentatonic shapes, so I add the half-steps and so on, which take the shape or pattern into modal land.

 

At least, I think this is what I do...

[cam011235]

It's hard for me to explain (one reason I don't claim to be a Guitar Teacher), but I don't think Theory First when I'm playing. I listen and feel my way around a song or jam or chord run. Theory and Written music is a way of explaining and recording music, not playing or making it.

 

Of course it makes it easier to Identify the Key and improvise without hitting "Bad Notes" when you have some Theory under you belt, but mostly it gives us a means of talking about what we just played, or what we heard someone else play, with a common language.

 

I always keep in mind that much of theory is based on Math. Fractions after fractions. Well, if there transcendental figures in Math then there are Transcendental Note Values, making it an Imperfect Theory. Music is Analog, Not digital.

i agree it seems to be geometric and mathematical in many ways ..very much transcendental a real spiritual experience i often see the music it appears in patterns and colours and also the emotion it evokes it can really affect people ..i think playing sometimes is when you stop thinking and start feeling

[cam011235]

There was a time when I thought I was mildy sure of what I was doing. I'm not so sure of it anymore.

 

I learned what was taught to me as being modal scales. I learned the accompanying pentatonic scales, which overlap, or weave in and out of, or on top of, the modal scales I learned.

 

I think, for the most part, I can string some chords together and have them be "theoretically" appropriate to a specific key, and then play an improvised lead over top of said chord progression, which I also believe to be in the appropriate key.

 

I think what I'm doing much of the time is, slipping in and out of pentatonic scale shapes and the accompanying modal scale shape, when I chose. I try to spice it up I guess. I don't want to sound like I'm always playing pentatonic shapes, so I add the half-steps and so on, which take the shape or pattern into modal land.

 

At least, I think this is what I do...

i think i can really relate to what you are saying it is very similar for me i can use pentatonic as a reference but i try to find other ways to expand i am not really sure with modes i can find other ways of expanding sometimes minor scales melodic harmonic i guess there a fair bit of trial and error

[cam011235]

All kidding aside, I think "kids" nowadays (e.g., folks under 50) are exposed to different scales and such than what I think in, and are more likely to think that way.

 

That's why I'm not always kidding when I say I'm doing keyboard elevator music on guitar - "sweet" jazz chords here and there, but I don't think in terms of "modes" but rather in terms of stuff I've listened to that somehow stuck in my head.

 

I'm not certain, but I think I can, and do learn a lot about pickin', chords and stuff, but I also think that the way I do melodies for standards or whatever, I'm not thinking "lead" but rather doing it all myself in ways that musically feel comfortable ... which in a lotta my stuff probably reflects more what a soft jazz keyboard player would be doing in the 40s through the 60s. And that's... <grin> probably keyboard elevator music.

 

m

the kids do have a different type of approach i have noticed this they get a lot of info to like the web and guitar is a lot more common many have parent who are musicians and many start at a young age they ed up with great skills some of them

 

i think you are to hard on yourself saying elevator music your generation of players are wonderful much of that rhythm lead playing is a great skil that was around in those era jimi hendrix learnt it from the blues greats wonderful there is so much to learn from the ol boys for sure

[FirstMeasure]

I really don't know what it's called, but one of my Fall Back scale is Root-2nd-b3rd-b4th-4th-b5th-5th-6th-7th, that way I only have to avoid two notes while still resting heavily on the pentatonic scale contained therein.

[DAS44]

I tend to try to do a bit of everything. Recently I've been messing around with whole tone scales (having been studying some atonal and heavily dissonant music). Though, I always have Ionian, Dorian, Mixolydian, and Aeolian (oddly I enjoy Lydian for some reason).

 

Besides that, I've just been trying to increase my chord vocabulary, on all fronts, and work on my sight reading.

[EvanPC]

One of my problems has been trying to memorize patterns or shapes, versus trying to learn the notes/neck thoroughly, and construct them on the fly. I'm good on strings (low) E through D, but find myself stopping to think about where I'm at on G - B.

 

It helped me to try and visualize scales running infinitely, not only from the 1st fret to the 20-something fret, but also across the neck, from low E to high. Scales can be started anywhere, and in any shape (considering you're hitting the right notes).

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's how I "see" things while I'm playing both modes and pentatonics:

 

1. Ionian (Major) - w/accompanying major pentatonic shape lying within this shape (1)

2. Dorian (minor) - w/ accompanying minor pentatonic shape lying within this shape (2)

3. Phrygian (minor) - w/ accompanying minor pentatonic shape lying within this shape (3)

4. Lydian (Major)

5. Mixolydian (Maj Dom 7) - w/accompanying major pentatonic shape lying within this shape (4)

6. Aeolian (relative minor) - w/ accompanying minor pentatonic shape lying within this shape (5)

7. Locrian (minor b5)

 

I keep using the word "accompanying" though I suppose there's a chance that theoretically, it's inaccurate to say. Just trying to imply that the shapes fit within each other, and if you're playing in one, you could say you're playing within the other (I think). When I think this way, it opens up options to me while I'm playing. After I became familiar enough with the way the notes in a scale shape sounded over certain types of chord progressions, I can decide if I feel staying within the bluesy pentatonic pattern will fit better, or if going to the modal route would sound better.

 

Another problem I have is, knowing that there are many variations of these basic scales, and I couldn't begin to articulate them or even know what they are.

 

I think someone else eluded to this, but I also like to come up with "jams" which change keys. For me, it's fun to find to different keys which sound good together (somehow) and find a way to seamlessly transition between them. I think I rely on knowing the relative minor of whatever key I'm a lot to do this. Strikes me as a good pivot point to make a change or stay on course.

 

Aside from somewhat applying the above to chords as well, that's about the extent of my "theory" knowledge.

[EvanPC]

One more thing...just while I'm thinking of it.

 

It really threw a wrench in my system when I learned about relative minors, and how they relate to the major scale they're relative to.

 

For example, I've never really gotten a clear answer on a question such as, "This piece is listed as being in Em, so is it inaccurate to say it's in GMaj? If so, why?"

 

Boggles my mind to this day. I was told once that it is accurate, but composers chose to name something in a minor key simply because the song or piece "sounds minor". Which I get, but I don't get....

[VinceS]

I play mostly blues & classic rock. At this point in time I just mostly improvise along with backing tracks. Mostly pentatonic scales and minor chords. My music and tab reading skills are at the "See Spot Run" level so everything I've learned is from friends or by ear. Fortunatly I've been at it for 40 or so years so I've picked up enough over time to keep myself amused. I'm nowhere near the level of some of you guys but I have big fun playing. It's a great diversion.

[FirstMeasure]

One more thing...just while I'm thinking of it.

 

It really threw a wrench in my system when I learned about relative minors, and how they relate to the major scale they're relative to.

 

For example, I've never really gotten a clear answer on a question such as, "This piece is listed as being in Em, so is it inaccurate to say it's in GMaj? If so, why?"

 

Boggles my mind to this day. I was told once that it is accurate, but composers chose to name something in a minor key simply because the song or piece "sounds minor". Which I get, but I don't get....

I may be technically inaccurate, but the way I look at it, the Bass Notes and the way the chord run resolves determines the Key.

 

Simple example: G-D-Eminor-G would be Gmajor. Eminor-G-D-Eminor would be in Eminor.

 

In the end it's just a guide line, not a rule. Which is why when things get Ambiguous it's an opportunity to play both major and minor lead passages (or even Improv Bass Lines).