So what scales/modes/chords do you play?

[milod]

In a sense I think both Bob N. and Shred kinda hit where I come from.

 

I just talk about it in a bit different way.

 

Regardless of style and whether or not we're music theory folks, I think our heads have a certain amount of music "software" somewhat similar to the way that we have language.

 

It comes from our growing up and leads to a degree of comfort with certain sorts of music even as even those of us who are somewhat multilingual will be more comfortable with a given language even if we have some function in others. A very, very few of us are not only comfortable but accent-free in a bilingual environment and I know of only one or two who are virtually accent-free and perfectly idiomatically correct in three or more languages.

 

I think music is the same way. That's also why I think younger folks here have something of a different musical mind than the older folks. And of course, as with language, one's family environment in childhood and the musical/cultural environment of the formative pre-teen and teen years is very important in that development.

 

I have a lady acquaintance who is very highly classically trained and plays violin in a German symphony as a day job and writes/plays piano gigs that combine "classical" with variations of pop music from Joplin to rock. Better, she's very talented so it sounds "right" when she plays. But it's also definitely "her" and very definitely playing off the maps she's written that have a "classical" musician's timing and precision.

 

Frankly I think she's fantastic - but I also think she'd be as psychologically uncomfortable sitting in on a generalized pop saloon gig as I'd be in sitting with her for six months to write, practice and play a concert gig. She's Russian as her native language, speaks German very well and gets by well with functional English.

 

There are lots of variables in what makes each of us what we are.

 

m

[cam011235]

i played with a top player one night dude called phil emanuel hes tommy emanuels brother dunno if u guys have heard of em or not but they r friends with chet atkins ..any way phils a real friendly fellow and i am having a chat and i ask him whats the secret or the real key to playing guitar and he said its all arranged around 4..whether its 4 or a division like 2 or multiple of like 8 or 16 he said that the timing was all derived from 4..i guess when experienced players play together for first time they all know this and i guess listeners get used to it too but yeah ..i guess timing is like this whether its 5/4 9/8 or in 16's or whatever it has been derived from 4...guess thats y musos here have a 4 word thread haha ..there is a mathematical element to music but its about feelings thats what so many top players say its feeling the music

[Thundergod]

I know most of the most common modes and some ethnic )?) modes too... I use all of them regularly but for most stuff I rely on the minor pentatonic (less is more!) as it's more listener friendly.

 

BTW, lots of shredders use the pentatonic scale... you can shred with 2 notes, why not with 5 and their upper octaves?

[Dub-T-123]

Is there a Mind Set in Cabinet making that says "Dude, if you learn the names of your Joints you'll loose your Heart and Soul as a Cabinet Maker". To me, music Theory is just knowing your Terminology. Nothing Soul Sucking about it.

I wasn't trying to imply that I'm better for that at all. Really I just don't know the names of what I'm playing because I've never taken guitar lessons or read books about theory.

 

I can definately easily communicate with other musicians though. I mean it's pretty easy to name any note on a guitar so if I'm playing a chord I can usually either tell them the name of the chord or the root note or all the notes or even just show them the fingering.

 

I would like to learn a little theory about chord progressions, particularly for writing the chorus or bridge in a song, but I'm not concerned with learning the names of crazy chords.

 

Good point xdemon.

[FirstMeasure]

I wasn't trying to imply that I'm better for that at all. Really I just don't know the names of what I'm playing because I've never taken guitar lessons or read books about theory.

 

I can definately easily communicate with other musicians though. I mean it's pretty easy to name any note on a guitar so if I'm playing a chord I can usually either tell them the name of the chord or the root note or all the notes or even just show them the fingering.

 

I would like to learn a little theory about chord progressions, particularly for writing the chorus or bridge in a song, but I'm not concerned with learning the names of crazy chords.

 

Good point xdemon.

That's why I apologized for using you as an example right from the start, I was generalizing and your post was in the perfect spot to use as an example. I didn't mean that You felt that Theory steels the soul, just alluding to that mind set. I think we can all agree that there are those that feel Theory steels the Soul, I know I've heard it for the last couple decades of playing.

 

And I know you'd probably not have me go on about it, but......

 

You can't just learn a little theory on Chord Progression. It's all the same theory and it applies to Chords, Leads, Progressions, Harmonies, The Works. And I agree, Memorizing all the crazy names of the chords would be maddening. But if you know your Major and Minor scales and a little theory the names make sense, there's no memorizing involved.

 

The first, most important part of knowing the names of chords. Every Basic Chord contains three notes, Root, Third, fifth. All that means is the First note in the scale, the second note in the scale, and the third note. When you add the 7th note in the scale to the chord it becomes a 7th. If you add more than one note it gets complicated but the concept doesn't change.

 

Like the E7#9 that Hendrix made famous. E means it's based on an E chord, so it must have an E(First Note)-G#(Third Note)-B(Fifth Note). The 7 means it needs a D (the 7th Note in the E major scale). The #9 means the note a half step above the 9th note, but there's only 7 notes in the scale. This is where the Jazz World's gift to music comes in, you simply count the octave as 8 and the Second as 9 So we have an F#, raise that a half step (one fret) in recognition of the # sign before the 9 and you have a G. Therefore, play E-G#-B-D-G all together on any instrument and you have an E7#9. Not exactly "easy" but not as impossible as memorizing every crazy chord. (To me it's easier than memorizing all the different types of wood, potentiometer values, pick up outputs, pick up types, nut materials, wire gauges, scale lengths, nut widths, saddle and bridge types, and everything else that seems to get undue attention.)

 

A minor simply means the Third is Flat. That goes for Minor Scales ans well as Chords as well as Keys.

 

Lastly, when I say that Theory is there so musicians can talk about music, that's not saying you Cannot talk about music without it. It is, however, the common language musicians have agreed upon for centuries, allowing music to be "Recorded" for history. It allows Mozart to give instructions to a Violin Player born in 1972. In that respect is is a Language worth Learning.

[damian]

Wow, stevejoshlay's chords are made with a third, a post, and a fifth (of vodka)......... ...

 

I went to music conservatory.......learned a lot..........It is a language......................................

[Shnate McDuanus]

Wow, stevejoshlay's chords are made with a third, a post, and a fifth (of vodka)......... ...

 

[cam011235]

personally i find timing more challenging at times ..plus its not just the notes you play its the notes you dont play...gaps have timing measures to and are so important

[FirstMeasure]

personally i find timing more challenging at times ..plus its not just the notes you play its the notes you dont play...gaps have timing measures to and are so important

Great Point!!! Count the Rests and give them their full value, if you can't do that you're not graduating to Intermediate Band. Nothing bugs me more than a guy who Rushes through a song or passage.

[cam011235]

Great Point!!! Count the Rests and give them their full value, if you can't do that you're not graduating to Intermediate Band. Nothing bugs me more than a guy who Rushes through a song or passage.

yeah the want to bes rush and overplay..its good to slow down sometimes..even to come in just late of the beat ..eg jon bonham

[FirstMeasure]

yeah the want to bes rush and overplay..its good to slow down sometimes..even to come in just late of the beat ..eg jon bonham

Yeah, milk it sometimes.

[cam011235]

Yeah, milk it sometimes.

i guess it comes with experience..good bands seem to be patient and let the progressions build and develop..use the dynamics

[FirstMeasure]

i guess it comes with experience..good bands seem to be patient and let the progressions build and develop..use the dynamics

Ah yes, Dynamics. The long lost Brother of Tempo and Harmony.

 

Something I think a lot of folks don't get about Rests, they come in Quarters, Eighth, and Sixteenth (et al.) just like their Note Counterparts. Without them riffs would just slur together (especially Metal Riffs).

[cam011235]

Ah yes, Dynamics. The long lost Brother of Tempo and Harmony.

 

Something I think a lot of folks don't get about Rests, they come in Quarters, Eighth, and Sixteenth (et al.) just like their Note Counterparts. Without them riffs would just slur together (especially Metal Riffs).

 

its often neglected but so important..if you see a classical guitarist you hear how precise the gaps are.. the time value is very exact and important to the progression..it is important in all types of music..

 

good metal players understand dynamics and often have diverse complex timing.. many are very technical particularly in places like sweden germany..

 

 

for me i prefer less technical metal with drop tuning.. bands like tool isis sound much better to my ear but that is just personal preference..i can really admire a player like jon petrucci but wont really listen to dream theater much..it feels like overplaying though very skilled

[Notes_Norton]

It all comes down to taste and talent.

 

It is often said that the great Motown saxophonist Junior Walker played 5 notes, but he knew when to play them. (Actually, he played six, the blues scale.) Walker was never boring, other pentatonic/blues scale players can bore you to death.

 

Charlie Parker and Riche Cole play bebop on the alto sax (which is perhaps the musical opposite of pentatonic and akin to shred on a guitar). But they play melodic bebop and keep my interest while others just bore me.

 

Rhythm, phrasing, dynamics (which get compressed out in many modern recordings), harmony, melody, technique, theory, and other technical skills are just that, skills that any able bodied person can learn. It takes taste and talent to turn these skills into listenable music.

 

If you took the first movement to Beethoven's fifth, and step entered it (quantized) -- and with all notes at equal volume and their full notated value, you wouldn't have the great symphony that it has become. It is the talent of the conductor and musicians that make a symphony come alive. Same goes for rock, the blues, country, or any other genre of music.

 

What you play is important, and it is important to play mostly what the audience can understand (you can stray from the comfortable, but not for too long), it's equally important how you play it. Technique can be taught, talent can only be developed. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it <grin>).

 

Notes

[cam011235]

its like you got to have feeling..the dynamics of it is in the feeling ..not just mechanical note playing..the pentatonic is amazingly adaptable it is surprising how it just melts into the key you are playing..but getting that feeling into the playing is important..to stop thinking and to start feeling

[FirstMeasure]

You don't often hear someone in a Rock Band or any modern music say, "Bro, that was cool, but could you Staccato those last three 16th notes and a little more Accent on the Chord Stabs".

 

All that Italian written those little symbols around the notes are Dynamics. Dynamics Rule! If I were to hang a sign in the Band Room it would say that (right next to one that says, "Keep Your Eyes on the Prize"). "Feeling it" is what it all boils down to, dynamics are the translation of emotion into the music, so Feel It!

 

"What you play is important, and it is important to play mostly what the audience can understand (you can stray from the comfortable, but not for too long), it's equally important how you play it. Technique can be taught, talent can only be developed." -Notes Norton

[cam011235]

You don't often hear someone in a Rock Band or any modern music say, "Bro, that was cool, but could you Staccato those last three 16th notes and a little more Accent on the Chord Stabs".

 

All that Italian written those little symbols around the notes are Dynamics. Dynamics Rule! If I were to hang a sign in the Band Room it would say that (right next to one that says, "Keep Your Eyes on the Prize"). "Feeling it" is what it all boils down to, dynamics are the translation of emotion into the music, so Feel It!

 

"What you play is important, and it is important to play mostly what the audience can understand (you can stray from the comfortable, but not for too long), it's equally important how you play it. Technique can be taught, talent can only be developed." -Notes Norton

 

rock n rollers are instinctive creatures none of this fussy 16s staccato or unnecessary details ..raw emotion can carry you alot further..the mixture of technique talent and feelings in varying degrees

[Dub-T-123]

That's why I apologized for using you as an example right from the start, I was generalizing and your post was in the perfect spot to use as an example. I didn't mean that You felt that Theory steels the soul, just alluding to that mind set. I think we can all agree that there are those that feel Theory steels the Soul, I know I've heard it for the last couple decades of playing.

 

And I know you'd probably not have me go on about it, but......

 

You can't just learn a little theory on Chord Progression. It's all the same theory and it applies to Chords, Leads, Progressions, Harmonies, The Works. And I agree, Memorizing all the crazy names of the chords would be maddening. But if you know your Major and Minor scales and a little theory the names make sense, there's no memorizing involved.

 

The first, most important part of knowing the names of chords. Every Basic Chord contains three notes, Root, Third, fifth. All that means is the First note in the scale, the second note in the scale, and the third note. When you add the 7th note in the scale to the chord it becomes a 7th. If you add more than one note it gets complicated but the concept doesn't change.

 

Like the E7#9 that Hendrix made famous. E means it's based on an E chord, so it must have an E(First Note)-G#(Third Note)-B(Fifth Note). The 7 means it needs a D (the 7th Note in the E major scale). The #9 means the note a half step above the 9th note, but there's only 7 notes in the scale. This is where the Jazz World's gift to music comes in, you simply count the octave as 8 and the Second as 9 So we have an F#, raise that a half step (one fret) in recognition of the # sign before the 9 and you have a G. Therefore, play E-G#-B-D-G all together on any instrument and you have an E7#9. Not exactly "easy" but not as impossible as memorizing every crazy chord. (To me it's easier than memorizing all the different types of wood, potentiometer values, pick up outputs, pick up types, nut materials, wire gauges, scale lengths, nut widths, saddle and bridge types, and everything else that seems to get undue attention.)

 

A minor simply means the Third is Flat. That goes for Minor Scales ans well as Chords as well as Keys.

 

Lastly, when I say that Theory is there so musicians can talk about music, that's not saying you Cannot talk about music without it. It is, however, the common language musicians have agreed upon for centuries, allowing music to be "Recorded" for history. It allows Mozart to give instructions to a Violin Player born in 1972. In that respect is is a Language worth Learning.

Hey thanks man I didn't know that about the root and third and fifth and whatnot.

 

It's funny, I used to play that E7#9 chord all the time! I just never knew the name of it. Now I prefer to play it with a regular 9th. Sounds a little more mellow and less bluesy.

 

So where should I start for learning more about chord progressions and writing bridges? I feel like bridges are the weakest area in my songwriting skills

[Tman5293]

I keep it extremely simple. I'm all about the the pentatonic and blues scales. I use them almost exclusively. Other scales just don't sound good to me. As for modes and chords, I could care less. Couldn't tell you anything about a mode to save my life. What sounds good is all that matters to me. If it fits great, if not, then try again. I can play all different kinds of chords, but most of the time I have no idea what they're called aside from the basic major/minor chords. I usually use those and throw in some extra notes that sound good to make my chords.

[Duende]

What you play is important, and it is important to play mostly what the audience can understand (you can stray from the comfortable, but not for too long),

 

 

I consider, in a pervese way, to have built my musical life on the very foundations of breaking the shackles of comfort and not trying to second guess what the audience want. I write what I write, play what I play, then put myself 'out there' and take the gamble - I have a very small, but loyal following, which to be honest in my eyes, is having 'made it' as a musician (in my perhaps simple - but very happy - way of perceiving success )

 

I made a decision, quite a few years back, to follow where my passion lay with repertoire choices etc - and not to play pieces just because they were 'standard', 'the done thing' etc etc. If I am frank, I would feel cheap playing Cavatina, Spanish Romance etc because I don't love them. Additionally, loads of other people play those pieces well already and I can't add anything to them, so I figure what is the point?

 

The audiences I get therefore, are people that are a mixture of society and of all ages, most (I am pleased by this) are non musicians, but I am even more pleased when I talk with them after, that they are usually passionate about classical music and keen to hear new music, rather than the 'popular' choices that make compilations cds year in year out.

 

Matt

[milod]

Matt...

 

Yeah, but you're doing a different kind of gig to a different sorta audience. In a concert environment peoples' expectations are different from a country club dinner/dance gig...

 

In a sense, I guess what I'm saying is that you actually are giving an audience what is expected: Well-played variety of music in a concert setting that well-demonstrates the virtuosity and talent of a concert artist.

 

m

[cam011235]

actually i just listened to a bit of matt he reminds me of julian bream..some fine baroque playing there..matt has worked very hard on his playing..wonder if he plays lute like julian bream..i really admire these type of players

[Duende]

Matt...

 

...In a concert environment peoples' expectations are different from a country club dinner/dance

m

 

Cheers to you Milo; I appreciate this ;) but thought it was worth mentioning anyway, even if to just throw in another aspect in the mix of this already interesting thread. If any

younger kids are reading who want to play off the beaten track stuff, I want to encourage them and say following your own way is quite possible. But I completely agree re audience expectiion; 'horses for courses' as they say :).

 

Matt

[Duende]

actually i just listened to a bit of matt he reminds me of julian bream.. wonder if he plays lute l[thumbup]

 

As he is one of my favourite all time ever classical guitarists, that is one hell of a compliment - thank you sir! Also nice to hear something nice on the net! Like we said in the other thread people can be nasty LOL!

 

I have played a lute and it is in my sites to buy one, in the next year or so. My wife sings lots of English renaissance songs so I would love to accompany her with a period style instrument!

 

Matt