That "Les Paul" tone...

[Tim Plains]

Let's see where this goes...

 

'50s LPs weren't consistent.

Throughout the years there have been numerous variations of the guitar.

Different construction methods, different wood, different pickups, etc.

Some sound clear, some are muddy, some are to die for, while others are just crap...

 

So, is there such a thing as a true and definitive Les Paul tone?

[RichCI]

To some extent, yes, but it's up to the individual's tastes and the rest of the gear used. A Les Paul plugged into a Fender Deluxe Reverb isn't going to sound the same as a Les Paul plugged into Marshall 2203.

[deepblue]

I have always felt along the same lines Rich.

The guitar is only half of the equation. Some guys may have a fantastic sounding guitar but play it through a

crappy amp. I feel if youre going to make the decision to buy a Les Paul, or any other high end guitar you owe it to yourself to get a high end amplifier.

As we all know its not a cheap undertaking. But I want to know my guitars full potential, and I dont want a half dozen or so foot pedals in front of me to try and tweak the right sound.

 

Theres a Canadian made amp that I wont name because I dont want to offend anyone. I have a good friend who has a nice looking 50w all tube half stack of this "nameless" amplifier. When I plugged into it with my Lester it sounded flatter then piss on a plate. No matter how I turned the gain, or played with the equalizer nothing made this amp come alive. It just sounded loud....nothing dynamic at all.

*Footnote*...He has since sold the amplifier.

 

You have to do your leg work when buying an amp. Theres really no shortcut. Try them all with YOUR guitar, not the ones in the store.

 

Set Your Gibson free to run.

[RichCI]

+10,000 to what deepblue said.

 

What gets me riled up is that certain pieces of gear - like amps - get all this buzz and hype on the web whether it's warranted or not. I own a Blues Jr and it's a decent amp that serves it's purpose (I wanted an inexpensive, very portable amp with a master volume that could hold it's own with a drummer in a small room) but it's nothing to get very excited about when it comes to tone. It sounds decent, but that's pretty much the end of it yet I read posts where people rave about the thing like it's the end-all be-all amp. It is what it is and it's a very good amp for the price and that's it.

 

Players really need to do some footwork when it comes to buying an amp, just like a guitar. You can read all the reviews and watch a bunch of videos on YouTube but you never really know until you plug YOUR guitar into it with YOU playing. There really are no shortcuts other than narrowing down your choices; you still have to take them for a test drive and crank them up.

[phil325]

completely agree with you all on this topic. only way to find that sound you want is you gotta look for it yourself sometimes instead of basing it on other people's opinions. everyone has their own perspective on "amazing perfect tone" (ie. shredders vs. slow blues guys) so who knows what those guys on websites mean at certain times. i'm actually shopping around for a good tube amp and sometimes i would just sit at guitar center and mess with any potential amps for quite some time to get a feel of it. granted i don't bring my guitar because i go to the store spur of the moment but at least i somewhat narrow down what i want and don't want you know? good points everyone

[Jumpy Guitar]

Hi everybody from italy! this is a tone I like:http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=O9HlTzmUQ9g ...although sometimes I love to play something harder like 70's rock. I'd like to have your opinion about bugera amps: I'm thinking about this combo the guy is playing in the video..I was impressed when I tried the LP 2008 two weeks ago with another model (not combo)..warm but even angry at low volume, with a stylish look that i love, at a really good price!(made in china)

thanks for sharing your thoughts about!

 

Giampiero

[NeoConMan]

Got it covered, with NO EFFECTS PEDALS.

See avatar.

<---------------

 

If you would like to make an appointment, you too can sample tonal Nirvana for yourself at the NeoCon Compound.

 

:-)

 

To know the full potential any guitar is impossible with half dozen foot pedals in the signal.

Someday I'll buy some for kicks, but I'm a HUGE believer in keeping it simple to try and tweak the right sound.

I never wanted to be thought of as a wanker, it makes me crazy seeing guys that depend on pedals like oxygen.

 

 

 

I have always felt along the same lines Rich.

The guitar is only half of the equation. Some guys may have a fantastic sounding guitar but play it through a

crappy amp.

I'd say that's the case 80% of the time.

 

Making the decision to buy a Les Paul' date=' or any high end guitar requires a good - and usually high end amplifier.

Its not a cheap undertaking, I get heartburn in a hurry when I start shopping amps......

Seriously, I have tons of money in guitars, because I know what I'm buying.

Amps are a different story, there's still alot of mystery for me.

 

Frankly, I think there's no better way than simply buying amps until you find what you like and sell what you don't use anymore. Most people can't afford it, my wife would kick my *** even if I could.

She loves my guitars but thinks I already have too many amps (5) that I never use.

 

Setting your Gibson free isn't cheap, unless you're lucky at the start.

 

Here's a bigger pic;

 

[img']http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/2636099679_5aed572ce8.jpg?v=0[/img]

 

 

Truth be told, I like the tones I can get here but there are a dozen amps I would like to try.

Maybe someday.

 

Getting back on the thread topic, how many Les Pauls will I own before I'm satisfied?

God knows I'm willing to own a dozen more before I'm confident I've sampled a good cross section.

 

:-)

.

[NeoConMan]

(made in china)

Sad reality these days, too much gear comes from there.

Some of the stuff is okay I guess, I never look at it enough to know.

 

Of course, both my Fender amps were made in Mexico....

[KennyF]

I can't even imagine anything better than the guitar in the picture below, plugged directly into the amp in the picture below. Although, the next guy might think it's firewood.

 

As far as the other side of this topic... Here's something that I've been saying for years. "Plug a great guitar into a crappy amp and it'll sound like crap". "Plug a crappy guitar into a great amp and a decent player could probably work with it"

 

[saturn]

When you ask if there's a definative LP tone, I think there is. Maybe some people can get a similar sound using different eqipment, and maybe not all LP rigs get the same sound. But IMO, there is a certain tone, that when I hear it I recognise as my definative LP tone. Mostly the old school classic players come to mind and none of them over use the distortion/gain. Kossoff, Allman, Betts, Greene and more recently Haynes. It's a deep, dark tone that gets a honk at the end as the note decays.

[KennyF]

When you ask if there's a definative LP tone' date=' I think there is. Maybe some people can get a similar sound using different eqipment, and maybe not all LP rigs get the same sound. But IMO, there is a certain tone, that when I hear it I recognise as my definative LP tone. Mostly the old school classic players come to mind and none of them over use the distortion/gain. Kossoff, Allman, Betts, Greene and more recently Haynes. It's a deep, dark tone that gets a honk at the end as the note decays. [/quote']

 

I pretty much agree with that, especially as it relates to distortion/gain. I think that a lot of players these days think that classic rockers, or Allman, Betts, Green, etc., were using more gain than they actually were/are.

[RichCI]

To know the full potential any guitar is impossible with half dozen foot pedals in the signal.

Someday I'll buy some for kicks' date=' but I'm a HUGE believer in keeping it simple to try and tweak the right sound.

I never wanted to be thought of as a wanker, it makes me crazy seeing guys that depend on pedals like oxygen.[/quote']

That's fine depending on the style of music you play and your playing situation. If you're just playing in your basement using one tone all the time, you can do fine with a guitar right into the amp. But, if you're playing out in different sized rooms, you don't always get to crank up your amp loud enough to get a good tone or play music with various tones, that's where certain types of pedals come in.

 

I never understood why some people have this thing against pedals; they worked just fine for Hendrix and even Les Paul himself is the inventor of multitracking and uses his Les Paulverizer which, is in essence, an effect that involves long runs of cables.

[RichCI]

"Plug a great guitar into a crappy amp and it'll sound like crap". "Plug a crappy guitar into a great amp and a decent player could probably work with it"

Damn right. IMO, owning a good amp is more important that owning a good guitar when it comes to just tone. A crappy guitar will be a struggle to play, but it can still sound good through a good amp.

[lpdeluxe]

I play my Les Paul Deluxe with Seymour Duncan minis through a Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight.

 

If I wanted "that Les Paul tone" I'd have to change my entire life style.

 

Sorry. Even great imitations are still imitations.

[RichCI]

And I'll bet you get your OWN unique tone out of that rig too. Good for you for standing out from the pack. =)

[Bluemoon]

+10' date='000 to what deepblue said.

 

What gets me riled up is that certain pieces of gear - like amps - get all this buzz and hype on the web whether it's warranted or not. I own a Blues Jr and it's a decent amp that serves it's purpose (I wanted an inexpensive, very portable amp with a master volume that could hold it's own with a drummer in a small room) but it's nothing to get very excited about when it comes to tone. It sounds decent, but that's pretty much the end of it yet I read posts where people rave about the thing like it's the end-all be-all amp. It is what it is and it's a very good amp for the price and that's it.

 

Players really need to do some footwork when it comes to buying an amp, just like a guitar. You can read all the reviews and watch a bunch of videos on YouTube but you never really know until you plug YOUR guitar into it with YOU playing. There really are no shortcuts other than narrowing down your choices; you still have to take them for a test drive and crank them up.[/quote']

 

I would rave about the Blues Junior in context of other amps in its price range. Obviously, there are way better amps out there...but they come with a heft price tag.

 

What riles me is when you ask people for suggestions on amps in a certain price range and people respond with suggestions that are 2x, 3x or even 4x that amount the person said they are willing to spend.

[deepblue]

[quoteI never understood why some people have this thing against pedals; they worked just fine for Hendrix and even Les Paul himself is the inventor of multitracking and uses his Les Paulverizer which, is in essence, an effect that involves long runs of cables.

]

 

I dont mind pedals per say, but I try and keep them to a minimum.

I use a volume pedal, and a digital delay and an enhancer through the loop. I use the enhancer only to punch up a solo.

 

Some guys have 5-10+ pedals. Way too much.

[RichCI]

Heh! I currently use five pedals with my band, but three are what I categorize as "special effects" - chorus, vibe and flanger - which I use for specific parts in some songs. The other two are a treble booster (lead boost, "metalizer") and an overdrive.

[Silverbursted]

Ah yes, that ever elusive tone. I have not been back to playing all that long, but have listened to music my entire life, and think that finding YOUR tone is far more important than trying to find someone else's. It is too hard to replicate a tone you heard on the radio or cd or even live. The conditions are next to impossible to copy, so why bother trying. Even the big boys don't try to get the exact tone even when they do covers. I was listening to Iron Maiden cover Led Zeppelin's "Black Dog", sounded great, but it sure was not Mr. Jimmy Page. Anyway, there is my 2 cents worth.

 

Use what works for you, and don't worry about brand names, unless of course you are being paid royalties.

[deepblue]

Heh! I currently use five pedals with my band, but three are what I categorize as "special effects" - chorus, vibe and flanger - which I use for specific parts in some songs. The other two are a treble booster (lead boost, "metalizer") and an overdrive

 

Well I should mention that I have a 140 lb chorus pedal......Leslie 122

I suffer for my sound! lol

[NeoConMan]

I currently use five pedals with my band

Okay, fine.

Doing gigs, you need the flexibility.

I understand that, your setlist may vary widely and your guitar duties will too.

It's the guys who have a huge pedalboard in their living room that just kill me.

Gadget freaks, nothing more.

 

I let a friend of mine borrow my Blues Junior for a couple months, when I went by to pick it up I had to laugh.

All he's ever had were cheapo solid state amps and a hundred pedals for his twenty low buck guitars.

I understand everybody has their own thing, but I wanted him to see the difference a tube amp makes.

He was gleefully showing me all the signal processing ability he had - completely erasing any "tube tone" from it.

(Heavy sigh.....)

 

If I played more leads I would need to get a few pedals to nail the odd tone here and there, but I play mostly rhythm.

I have enough guitars to choose from, and a few different amps - I can nail about anything I want, tone-wise.

[ChanMan]

Tone is subjective. What some like, others don't. The definitive Les Paul tone is whatever it is to the listener.

 

 

addendum:

I've said it before... your basic tone is like a great steak. Some people say doing anything to that is ruining a great steak. Other folks like to spice theirs up some. Pedals are spices. If you use the entire spice rack you'll ruin the steak, just like if your meat is rancid no amount of spice is gonna help. But a good chef will prepare their dishes the way their customers like them; a GREAT chef will create unique dishes that folks love and everyone wants.

 

(Not sure I get why it's ok to have a pedal board if you play out, but if you only play for your own enjoyment it is somehow wrong.... makes no sense to me. or my pedalboard. or the songs I compose using it)

[NeoConMan]

We differ in strategy.

If I need a different sound, I grab a different guitar.

 

:-)

[ChanMan]

We differ in strategy.

If I need a different sound' date=' I grab a different guitar.

 

:-)[/quote']

 

I don't have a guitar that sounds like it's being run through a phlanger like EVH's guitar... or one that can loop like my delay, or has a built in chorus, like my CE-5... &c.

 

I understand you're a purist. I have no issue with that at all. But you make no bones about your feelings for me and my Pedalboard of the Gods, and seemingly only because I play at home... hmmm.

[Rand Blade]

deepblue,

 

For curiosity' sake; please enlighten me on the absolutely gorgeous LP Standard in your avatar photo.

 

That's one of the best flame-tops I've seen in a long time...pardon my drooling...you must be very proud.

 

I'd assume if gigging with her, she's never out of eyesight correct?

 

Cheers

Rand

 

myspace.com/randblade