Rosewood Fingerboard Only Available on Higher Priced Gibsons Now?

[badbluesplayer]

Mr J. seems like an o.k. guy. He just got himself in trouble and can't admit it. It's as much a personality issue as anything. He is the tail wagging the dog. Only Mr. J can decide what will happen with Gibson and their woods. After they got busted for the second time, Mr. J decided to take his ball and go home. Only he can decide when to dry his eyes and get back to making guitars.

 

For those of you who haven't read the search affadivit for the latest raid, the crux of the case is that Gibson allegedly intentionally mislabeled illegal wood as legal wood. It was too thin to be exported and they and the people they were involved with intentionally mislabeled it so they could import it. That's a little simplified, but that is the case.

 

It's not really complicated. Nobody's stepping on anybody's rights, here. This is what happens when you break the rules and don't handle your regulatory compliance issues well. Nobody likes it when some regulators bust your chops. But sooner or later you have to get over it. You can't run Gibson into the ground because you're ashamed to admit your mistakes.

 

Gibson is a very private company. They don't even have a "Mission Statement". You go and try to find some public statement about the ownership or the management or anything about how the company is run.

[Searcy]

Lord have mercy... No ones rights have been stepped on? Our judicial system now consists of accusation = guilt? Confiscating privet property without filing criminal charges is now acceptable?

 

The affidavit says the blanks are too thick.... not too thin. Now, can someone explain to me why Gibson would intentionally mislabel fingerboard blanks that are too thick requiring them to spend more time being properly planed? What was the motive for this master crime?

[S t e v e]

If i was CEO of Gibson i would reduce the prices of the guitars back to wat they used to be like, so poorer kids can get their hands on a prestige guitar at a low price

 

then they'd no longer be "prestigious"...

[stein]

Mr J. seems like an o.k. guy. He just got himself in trouble and can't admit it. It's as much a personality issue as anything. He is the tail wagging the dog. Only Mr. J can decide what will happen with Gibson and their woods. After they got busted for the second time, Mr. J decided to take his ball and go home. Only he can decide when to dry his eyes and get back to making guitars.

 

For those of you who haven't read the search affadivit for the latest raid, the crux of the case is that Gibson allegedly intentionally mislabeled illegal wood as legal wood. It was too thin to be exported and they and the people they were involved with intentionally mislabeled it so they could import it. That's a little simplified, but that is the case.

 

It's not really complicated. Nobody's stepping on anybody's rights, here. This is what happens when you break the rules and don't handle your regulatory compliance issues well. Nobody likes it when some regulators bust your chops. But sooner or later you have to get over it. You can't run Gibson into the ground because you're ashamed to admit your mistakes.

 

Gibson is a very private company. They don't even have a "Mission Statement". You go and try to find some public statement about the ownership or the management or anything about how the company is run.

You seem hip on the situation. I have a different take on it.

 

The wood left the country with a code for a "finished" product. It wasn't labeled incorrectly until it got here and was labeled differently. That code was for wood that would not have been legal. When the wood reached it's next place in transit, it was again changed to a different code, which would have been a legal code but it was a code for raw wood which was thinner than the actual wood.

 

So...in the affidavit ITSELF the F&W aknowledge that the wood LEFT Madagasgar with a legal code, that LMI was the impoter, and that Gibson was not present during any of this labeling change that happened during transit. The affidavit even explians 'how' this labeling change would have happened (because the fingerbaord blanks fit the description for BOTH what Madagasgar considers LEGAL and what would be considered illegal if they were claimed as raw timber).

 

My take on it is that what is said in the affidavit has nothing to do with the case. It is just an exuse for a search and seizure without giving away any info about what the case is really about.

 

Here is some good questions: IF Gibson was involved in any of the labeling done when it reached the US, why would they not use the code for a legal product? Wouldn't that prove they weren't involved with any "mislabeling"?

 

IF the F&W wants to contend that the label for "finished fingerbaord blanks" is illegal and the wood SHOULD be coded as raw timber that is too thick to be leagal, why would other manufacturers in this country using the same wood be going on right under the F&W nose? why would they not be harrassed as well?

 

WHY is the other party involved, LMI, who actually had possesion of the wood during THIS particular "illegal" transaction still selling this very same stuff that Gibson is in trouble for?

[Work in Progress]

Come on, i just want to make the prices back down to like entry level prices but a high quality guitar!!! I wouldn't bankrupt Gibson ><

Entry level as in Maestro prices? We talking $199 USD? Or Studio prices around $1,200? Or Epiphone prices around $500? Supply and demand would indicate that an entry level price would be inefficient. Plus I'm not convinced people want the prices to be extremely lower. With the current price comes prestige, perceived value, and a sustainable supplier (aka Gibson won't go broke).

[badbluesplayer]

Lord have mercy... No ones rights have been stepped on? Our judicial system now consists of accusation = guilt? Confiscating privet property without filing criminal charges is now acceptable?

 

The affidavit says the blanks are too thick.... not too thin. Now, can someone explain to me why Gibson would intentionally mislabel fingerboard blanks that are too thick requiring them to spend more time being properly planed? What was the motive for this master crime?

Maybe I don't remember it right. It's supposed to be thin but it was too thick and labeled as thin, right? My brain's only sharp enough to complain!

 

As far as their rights go, I'm busting on 'em pretty bad, but I'm just a dopey customer on the bulletin board. The gov't is pretty bad, but hey, this is the big leagues. Gibson probably could have handled it better.

[badbluesplayer]

You seem hip on the situation. I have a different take on it.

 

The wood left the country with a code for a "finished" product. It wasn't labeled incorrectly until it got here and was labeled differently. That code was for wood that would not have been legal. When the wood reached it's next place in transit, it was again changed to a different code, which would have been a legal code but it was a code for raw wood which was thinner than the actual wood.

 

So...in the affidavit ITSELF the F&W aknowledge that the wood LEFT Madagasgar with a legal code, that LMI was the impoter, and that Gibson was not present during any of this labeling change that happened during transit. The affidavit even explians 'how' this labeling change would have happened (because the fingerbaord blanks fit the description for BOTH what Madagasgar considers LEGAL and what would be considered illegal if they were claimed as raw timber).

 

My take on it is that what is said in the affidavit has nothing to do with the case. It is just an exuse for a search and seizure without giving away any info about what the case is really about.

 

Here is some good questions: IF Gibson was involved in any of the labeling done when it reached the US, why would they not use the code for a legal product? Wouldn't that prove they weren't involved with any "mislabeling"?

 

IF the F&W wants to contend that the label for "finished fingerbaord blanks" is illegal and the wood SHOULD be coded as raw timber that is too thick to be leagal, why would other manufacturers in this country using the same wood be going on right under the F&W nose? why would they not be harrassed as well?

 

WHY is the other party involved, LMI, who actually had possesion of the wood during THIS particular "illegal" transaction still selling this very same stuff that Gibson is in trouble for?

 

You know, what you say makes a lot of sense. The thing I think is weak about the gov't case is that they're trying to prove that somebody conspired to get around the reg's by going over there and nosing around in the gray market and had some scheme to get around the reg's. I have no idea if they did, but I didn't think that part of the case would fly.

 

There's also the whole chain-of-custody issue that the gov't will have to prove, which probably isn't a sure thing either. Like who had it when and what papers were with it when and all that.

[AXE®]

Two piece board.

 

 

[bluesguitar65]

Two piece board.

 

Oh....$hit....so this what is called layered rosewood fingerboard? Is this from the current model les pauls .........god I hope its not a custom shop model.

[AXE®]

2012 Custom Shop R8.

[texasdw]

I think HENRY J is getting a bad rap from the fans.

 

I was reading a little about Gibson history, and I don't think a lot of poeple seem to want to remember where Gibson WAS when Henry came into the picture and how much we owe to him for where it is now.

 

I don't know that I can say I agree with everything he does, but I think it is problably true that everything poeple complain about the man as far as the quality of the guitars and what he Gibson is building is precisely the stuff he has brought the company FROM. Fact is pre-Henry IS Norlin, and everything Gibson has done to improve sinse then has been under his watch.

 

I'll take a Juskowitz era Gibson any day of the week. To say he is somehow hurting the quality or 'returning' Gibson to the Norlin era is just bass-ackwards.

 

I don't know what is going on with Gibson and the rosewood, all I can do is speculate. The best I can guess is that the truth is not out there, and a few facts seem to point to the govt. doing wrong. I don't have quotes, but I recall some employees saying that during the second raid, they were told flat-out that what they were importing was illegal and they can't do it, with threats of jailtime and/or more action by the govt. If I was told what I was doing was illegal but I didn't believe it was, I would be inclined to want to go to court FIRST before I kept on doing it.

 

It also seems odd that even though there are more companies in the supply chain, in the raids only Gibson is being targeted or punished. Put two and two together, and one has to conclude that in at least some cases, some would be avoiding doing business with Gibson, or striaght up being prevented. Think about it: Gibson is not the only entity involved in a supply chain getting wood here in any of these alledged "transactions". But they are the only ones being named by the feds. For the other companies involved, NOT being named was bought somehow, either from cooperation or direct threat.

 

I AGREE. Henry has done well with the company, and the newer fretboard materials, particularly baked maple look good and play well. And the quality issues...not really seeing that either. Of course, as I've said elsewhere all my new Gibbys need a setup. But then so do all my other new guitars. I for one don't want to return to the Norlin era - or worse. I support Henry, and have by buying his instruments.

[MrNylon]

I saw a Gibson Explorer Bass, at Sweetwater.com In their Guitar Gallery, with a baked maple board. Very lack luster. No real nice grain showing. A very flat finish to it, not any bit of a shine, etc. I'm really glad my SG Std. Bass has a decent one slat Rosewood board on the neck.